What if… France had not sold Louisiana?

[stevep]

Oct 29, 2016 11:48:51 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 29, 2016 11:45:02 GMT doug181 said:

Brits take Louisiana from France ,blocking further US expansion setting up an inevitable conflict

How would they mange to do that.

  As others have said Louisiana largely meant New Orleans and its immediate environment at this point in time.  If war resumes without it being sold to the US Britain can probably invade and occupy the New Orleans area, although that would probably have higher priorities.  This does rather leave the rest of the territory in rather a limbo even if say whoever was governor surrendered it along with New Orleans.  As another poster says you will probably have Americans settling across the Mississippi anyway. 

  I suspect that Britain wouldn't ban US commerce through New Orleans but British possession of the region meant that if war between the two occurred it would then be closed to the US, which would have detrimental effects on the western US colonies as they mainly traded down the river.  So it would be a prime target, probably the prime one in such a war.

  Ultimately I suspect the bulk of the area will end up in the US simply because of settler flow but you could see the border with Canada further south and possibly a continued British presence in the New Orleans area.

  Steve

[doug181]

At this time my assumption if France barely garrisoned Louisiana, the British would not need a large force to capture Louisiana. I will see if I can determine French strength.

[lordroel]

Oct 30, 2016 20:46:51 GMT doug181 said:

At this time my assumption if France barely garrisoned Louisiana, the British would not need a large force to capture Louisiana. I will see if I can determine French strength.

Would love to see a British versus French (if they had any garrison in New Orleans) battle in New Orleans.

[doug181]

I would have to check but I  suspect Louisiana was barely garrisoned. A small force could capture New Orleans and the RN control mouths of Mississippi.    

[stevep]

Oct 31, 2016 11:30:08 GMT doug181 said:

I would have to check but I  suspect Louisiana was barely garrisoned. A small force could capture New Orleans and the RN control mouths of Mississippi.    

  Which does lead to the question of why Britain didn't do this in the previous period of conflict, prior to 1801?  True it was under Spanish rule at this point but I doubt the garrison was that much stronger and Spain was allied to France for a lot of the period.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Oct 31, 2016 15:55:23 GMT stevep said:

Oct 31, 2016 11:30:08 GMT doug181 said:

I would have to check but I  suspect Louisiana was barely garrisoned. A small force could capture New Orleans and the RN control mouths of Mississippi.    

  Which does lead to the question of why Britain didn't do this in the previous period of conflict, prior to 1801?  True it was under Spanish rule at this point but I doubt the garrison was that much stronger and Spain was allied to France for a lot of the period.

  Steve

Could the Spanish not hand Louisiana over to the British and thus allowing the British to kick out the French. 

[stevep]

Oct 31, 2016 16:02:50 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 31, 2016 15:55:23 GMT stevep said:

  Which does lead to the question of why Britain didn't do this in the previous period of conflict, prior to 1801?  True it was under Spanish rule at this point but I doubt the garrison was that much stronger and Spain was allied to France for a lot of the period.

  Steve

Could the Spanish not hand Louisiana over to the British and thus allowing the British to kick out the French. 

  If you mean could they have handed it over to Britain and hence prevented it going to France, at the time they were still very much under the French thumb so I don't think it would be practical.  Plus at the time Britain was still an enemy of Spain and had been for a very long time.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Oct 31, 2016 20:29:55 GMT stevep said:

Oct 31, 2016 16:02:50 GMT lordroel said:

Could the Spanish not hand Louisiana over to the British and thus allowing the British to kick out the French. 

  If you mean could they have handed it over to Britain and hence prevented it going to France, at the time they were still very much under the French thumb so I don't think it would be practical.  Plus at the time Britain was still an enemy of Spain and had been for a very long time.

  Steve

I wonder if Napoleon who used the money to build his grande armée with the money he caught from selling Louisiana in OTL will be able to do that if he does not sell Louisiana.