Orange Twilight: the Netherlands during the Twilight War and beyond

[lordroel]

Surface ships of the French Navy in 1998

The French Navy (French: (French: Marine nationale) on January 2nd 1998 when the French Republic began their invasion of the Netherlands had in service a total of 1 cruiser, 16 destroyers and 28 frigates.

Cruiser

Jeanne d'Arc-class helicopter cruiser

Jeanne d'Arc (R97)

Destroyer

T 56-class destroyer

La Galissonnière

T 53-class destroyer

Duperré
La Bourdonnais
Forbin
Tartu
Jauréguiberry
La Galissonnière

T 47-class destroyer

Kersaint
Bouvet
Dupetit-Thouars
Maillé-Brézé
Vauquelin
D'Estrées
Du Chayla
Casabianca
Guépratte

Frigates

D'Estienne d'Orves-class frigate

Aviso D'Estienne d'Orves
Aviso Amyot d'Inville
Aviso Drogou
Aviso Détroyat
Aviso Jean Moulin
Aviso Quartier-Maître Anquetil
Aviso Commandant de Pimodan
Aviso Second-Maître Le Bihan
Aviso Lieutenant de vaisseau Le Hénaff
Aviso Lieutenant de vaisseau Lavallée
Aviso Commandant l'Herminier
Aviso Premier maître l'Her

Tourville-class frigate

Tourville (D610)
Duguay-Trouin (D611)
De Grasse (D612)

Aconit-class frigate

Aconit (F65)

Georges Leygues-class frigate

Georges Leygues (D640)
Dupleix (D641)
Montcalm (D642)
Jean de Vienne (D643)
Primauguet (D644)
Lamotte-Picquet (D 645 )
Latouche-Treville (D646)

Cassard-class frigate

Cassard (D614)
Jean Bart (D615)
Courbet (D616)
Gascogne (D617)
Dunkerque (D618)

[lordroel]

This is map of former Germany from 2007 to 2293.



Map showing former Germany and parts of the Netherlands and France from 2007 onward until the War of German Reunification in 2293.

(Orange) Netherlands with its provisional capital located in the city of Groningen.

(Yellow) Principality of Bentheim (German: Fürstentum Bentheim), the successor to the in March 1998 established Netherlands Military Administration in Bentheim (Dutch: Militaire Administratie in Bentheim) who main function it was to govern the former County of Bentheim (German: Grafschaft Bentheim), it is the sixth and the smallest independent country to be formed out of the former Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic.

(light Blue) Republic vlaanderen, former Dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium, now a independent country allied with the Netherlands, its capitol is in Brussels.

(Green) The Free State of Bavaria (German: Freistaat Bayern), it has its capitol located in the city of Munich.

(Purple) The People Republic of Saxony (German: Volksrepublik Sachsen), official capitol is Berlin, but it being destroyed during the Twilight War (1996-2000) it has its provisional capitol in Dresden.

(Blue) The Unione Francais (English: French Union), its capitol is Paris.

(Light Blue) The State of Baden-Württemberg (German: Land Baden-Württemberg) is located in the southwest, east of the Upper Rhine. Its has its capitol located in the city of Stuttgart.

(Light Green) The Westphalia Republic (German: Westfalen Republik) is a French puppet state formed with its capitol located in the city of Dusseldorf.

(Brown) The country known as Hannover includes the areas of Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein as well as parts of Westphalia, Hesse and Saxony-Anhalt. It has it capitol located in the city of Hannover.

[stevep]

Sept 29, 2021 18:30:28 GMT lordroel said:

This is map of former Germany from 2007 to 2293.



Map showing former Germany and parts of the Netherlands and France from 2007 onward until the War of German Reunification in 2293.

(Orange) Netherlands with its provisional capital located in the city of Groningen.

(Yellow) Principality of Bentheim (German: Fürstentum Bentheim), the successor to the in March 1998 established Netherlands Military Administration in Bentheim (Dutch: Militaire Administratie in Bentheim) who main function it was to govern the former County of Bentheim (German: Grafschaft Bentheim), it is the sixth and the smallest independent country to be formed out of the former Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic.

(light Blue) Republic vlaanderen, former Dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium, now a independent country allied with the Netherlands, its capitol is in Brussels.

(Green) The Free State of Bavaria (German: Freistaat Bayern), it has its capitol located in the city of Munich.

(Purple) The People Republic of Saxony (German: Volksrepublik Sachsen), official capitol is Berlin, but it being destroyed during the Twilight War (1996-2000) it has its provisional capitol in Dresden.

(Blue) The Unione Francais (English: French Union), its capitol is Paris.

(Light Blue) The State of Baden-Württemberg (German: Land Baden-Württemberg) is located in the southwest, east of the Upper Rhine. Its has its capitol located in the city of Stuttgart.

(Light Green) The Westphalia Republic (German: Westfalen Republik) is a French puppet state formed with its capitol located in the city of Dusseldorf.

(Brown) The country known as Hannover includes the areas of Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein as well as parts of Westphalia, Hesse and Saxony-Anhalt. It has it capitol located in the city of Hannover.

  Are those dates set in the games or picked by you as I would have expected attempts at German unification to occur before nearly 300 years were up, especially with a powerful France nibbling away at its western borders?  The latter presumably however having some check as you have your southern territories back and also have liberated norther Belgium as a friendly ally from the French but the latter still have the Westphalian Republic as a French puppet.  Unless its a case that France still stays powerful and works to keep the German states divided.

  By the way what happens to the other famous German state, i.e. Austria?

  Also should have asked before.  Why is France invading Belgium and the Netherlands in 1998??

  You have both Republic vlaanderen and Baden-Württemberg as light blue although they are different tones and its clear which is which.

[lordroel]

Sept 30, 2021 10:49:04 GMT stevep said:

Are those dates set in the games or picked by you as I would have expected attempts at German unification to occur before nearly 300 years were up, especially with a powerful France nibbling away at its western borders?  The latter presumably however having some check as you have your southern territories back and also have liberated norther Belgium as a friendly ally from the French but the latter still have the Westphalian Republic as a French puppet.  Unless its a case that France still stays powerful and works to keep the German states divided.

The dates are mostly coming from Etranger, the military in 2300 site, the Twilight 2000 Wiki and my own imagination.

Sept 30, 2021 10:49:04 GMT stevep said:

  By the way what happens to the other famous German state, i.e. Austria?

Austria was invaded by Italy during the Twilight War on July 1997 (you can read the TL here), Italy also tried to invade then German state of Bavaria but was repulsed by German forces, Italy occupied Austria until 2015 when the Austria Crisis happen between Bavaria who has recovered from the Twilight War and Italy which was tied up fighting Austrian rebels, not wanting to go to war Italy agreed to leave Austria in return for its neutrality, two years later in 2017 Austria and Slovenia became Austrivenia.

Sept 30, 2021 10:49:04 GMT stevep said:

Also should have asked before. Why is France invading Belgium and the Netherlands in 1998??

The French officially story was secure their frontiers against the hoardes of refugees and marauders.

Sept 30, 2021 10:49:04 GMT stevep said:

  You have both Republic vlaanderen and Baden-Württemberg as light blue although they are different tones and its clear which is which.

My bad i will change it when i have some time.

[lordroel]

When you have time to do this:

List of active French Navy ships in 2021

More than 21 years after the end of the Twilight War (1996-2000) and 14 years sins the end of the French-Netherlands War (1998-2007) the French Navy has taken part in many operations from the Arabian War (2010-2013) and anti-piracy operations around Africa, Asia and the Caribbean.

Ballistic missile submarines

Triomphant-class submarine

The Triomphant class of ballistic missile submarines of the French Navy is the active lead boat class of six boats that entered service in 1997, 1999, 2004, 2009, 2012 and 2017. These six superseded the older Redoutable class, and they provide the ocean-based component (the Force océanique stratégique) of France's nuclear deterrent strike force, the Force de dissuasion (deterrence force). Their home port is Île Longue, Roadstead of Brest, Western Brittany.

Le Triomphant (S616)
Le Téméraire (S617)
Le Vigilant (S618)
Le Terrible (S619)
Le Audacieux (S620)
Le Fantasque (S621)

Attack Submarines

Rubis nuclear-powered attack submarines

The Rubis class is a series of ten nuclear-powered attack submarines operated by the French Navy. All submarines of the class (except for Casabianca) are named after gemstones.

Rubis (S601)
Saphir (S602)
Casabianca (S603)
Émeraude (S604)
Améthyste (S605)
Perle (S606)
Ambre (S607)
Jade (S608)
Topaze (S609)
Diamant (S610)

République-class submarine

The République class is a nuclear attack submarine intended to replace the Rubis-class submarines. Construction began in 2007 and the first unit was commissioned in late 2020.

République (S611)
Patrie (S611), under construction.
Liberté (S612), under construction.
Démocratie (S613), under construction.

Aircraft carrier

The four Charles de Gaulle-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are the only nuclear-powered carrier in service as of 2021. The class carries a complement of Dassault Rafale M and the AS 532 Cougar Maritime Surveillance Helicopters, AS532 Cougar helicopters for combat search and rescue, AS365F Dauphin Pedro and EC725 Caracals, the class is equipped with modern electronics and Aster missiles.

Charles de Gaulle (R91)
Richelieu (R92)
Charlemagne (R93)
Mitterrand (R94)

Amphibious assault ship

The Mistral class is a class of five amphibious assault ships. Also known as helicopter carriers, and referred to as "projection and command ships" (French: bâtiments de projection et de commandement or BPC), a Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 AS532 Cougar helicopters or Tigre helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 Leclerc tanks, or a 40-strong Leclerc tank battalion and 450 soldiers.

Mistral (L9013)
Tonnerre (L9014)
Dixmude (L9015)
Oléron (L9016)
Levant (L9017)

Frigates

Forbin-class frigate

The Forbin-class (formerly known as the Horizon-class) are a class of highly sophisticated air-defense frigates in service with the French Navy. The program started off as the Common New Generation Frigate (CNGF), a multi-national collaboration to produce a new generation of air-defense frigates. The project originally included the United Kingdom, France and Italy, however due the outbreak of World War III (the "Twilight War") on October 7th 1996 forced both the United Kingdom and Italy to withdraw leaving the French as the only country left in the program.

Forbin (D620)
Chevalier Paul (D621)
Duperré (D622)
Maillé Brézé (D623)

Algérien-class frigate

The Algérien-class frigate is a follow up of the Forbin-class frigate.

Algérien (D624)
Marocain (D625)
Somali (D626)
Sénégalais (D627)

Georges Leygues-class (Type F70) frigate

La Motte-Picquet (D645)
Latouche-Treville (D646)

Aquitaine-class frigate (Anti‑submarine warfare variant)

The lead ship of the class, Aquitaine, was commissioned in November 2012.

Aquitaine (D650)
Normandie (D651)
Provence (D652)
Languedoc (D653)
Auvergne (D654)
Guyane (D655)
Bretagne (D656)
Lorraine (D657)
Limousin (D658)
Bourgogne (D659)
Picardie (D660)
Luxembourg (D661)

Lorraine-class frigate (Anti‑air warfare variant of the Aquitaine-class frigate)

Lorraine (D662)
Martinique (D663)
Occitanie (D664)
Corse (D665)

La Fayette-class frigate

La Fayette (F710)
Surcouf (F711)
Courbet (F712)
Aconit (F713)
Amiral Charner F714)
Cassard (F715)
Jauréguiberry (F716)

Floréal-class frigates

The Floréal-class is a type of light "surveillance frigates" designed for Patrolling its Exclusive Economic Zone (12 million km) and where build in the period of 1990 and 1994 by the Chantiers de l'Atlantique at Saint-Nazaire, France.

Floréal (F730)
Prairial (F731)
Nivôse (F732)
Ventôse (F733)
Vendémiaire (F734)
Germinal (F735)
Messidor (F736)
Thermidor (F737)
Fructidor (F738)
Frimaire (F739)

[stevep]

Dec 9, 2021 21:25:05 GMT lordroel said:

When you have time to do this:

List of active French Navy ships in 2021

More than 21 years after the end of the Twilight War (1996-2000) and 14 years sins the end of the French-Netherlands War (1998-2007) the French Navy has taken part in many operations from the Arabian War (2010-2013) and anti-piracy operations around Africa, Asia and the Caribbean.

Ballistic missile submarines

Triomphant-class submarine

The Triomphant class of ballistic missile submarines of the French Navy is the active lead boat class of six boats that entered service in 1997, 1999, 2004, 2009, 2012 and 2017. These six superseded the older Redoutable class, and they provide the ocean-based component (the Force océanique stratégique) of France's nuclear deterrent strike force, the Force de dissuasion (deterrence force). Their home port is Île Longue, Roadstead of Brest, Western Brittany.

Le Triomphant (S616)
Le Téméraire (S617)
Le Vigilant (S618)
Le Terrible (S619)
Le Audacieux (S620)
Le Fantasque (S621)

Attack Submarines

Rubis nuclear-powered attack submarines

The Rubis class is a series of ten nuclear-powered attack submarines operated by the French Navy. All submarines of the class (except for Casabianca) are named after gemstones.

Rubis (S601)
Saphir (S602)
Casabianca (S603)
Émeraude (S604)
Améthyste (S605)
Perle (S606)
Ambre (S607)
Jade (S608)
Topaze (S609)
Diamant (S610)

République-class submarine

The République class is a nuclear attack submarine intended to replace the Rubis-class submarines. Construction began in 2007 and the first unit was commissioned in late 2020.

République (S611)
Patrie (S611), under construction.
Liberté (S612), under construction.
Démocratie (S613), under construction.

Aircraft carrier

The four Charles de Gaulle-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are the only nuclear-powered carrier in service as of 2021. The class carries a complement of Dassault Rafale M and the AS 532 Cougar Maritime Surveillance Helicopters, AS532 Cougar helicopters for combat search and rescue, AS365F Dauphin Pedro and EC725 Caracals, the class is equipped with modern electronics and Aster missiles.

Charles de Gaulle (R91)
Richelieu (R92)
Charlemagne (R93)
Mitterrand (R94)

Amphibious assault ship

The Mistral class is a class of five amphibious assault ships. Also known as helicopter carriers, and referred to as "projection and command ships" (French: bâtiments de projection et de commandement or BPC), a Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 AS532 Cougar helicopters or Tigre helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 Leclerc tanks, or a 40-strong Leclerc tank battalion and 450 soldiers.

Mistral (L9013)
Tonnerre (L9014)
Dixmude (L9015)
Oléron (L9016)
Levant (L9017)

Frigates

Forbin-class frigate

The Forbin-class (formerly known as the Horizon-class) are a class of highly sophisticated air-defense frigates in service with the French Navy. The program started off as the Common New Generation Frigate (CNGF), a multi-national collaboration to produce a new generation of air-defense frigates. The project originally included the United Kingdom, France and Italy, however due the outbreak of World War III (the "Twilight War") on October 7th 1996 forced both the United Kingdom and Italy to withdraw leaving the French as the only country left in the program.

Forbin (D620)
Chevalier Paul (D621)
Duperré (D622)
Maillé Brézé (D623)

Algérien-class frigate

The Algérien-class frigate is a follow up of the Forbin-class frigate.

Algérien (D624)
Marocain (D625)
Somali (D626)
Sénégalais (D627)

Georges Leygues-class (Type F70) frigate

La Motte-Picquet (D645)
Latouche-Treville (D646)

Aquitaine-class frigate (Anti‑submarine warfare variant)

The lead ship of the class, Aquitaine, was commissioned in November 2012.

Aquitaine (D650)
Normandie (D651)
Provence (D652)
Languedoc (D653)
Auvergne (D654)
Guyane (D655)
Bretagne (D656)
Lorraine (D657)
Limousin (D658)
Bourgogne (D659)
Picardie (D660)
Luxembourg (D661)

Lorraine-class frigate (Anti‑air warfare variant of the Aquitaine-class frigate)

Lorraine (D662)
Martinique (D663)
Occitanie (D664)
Corse (D665)

La Fayette-class frigate

La Fayette (F710)
Surcouf (F711)
Courbet (F712)
Aconit (F713)
Amiral Charner F714)
Cassard (F715)
Jauréguiberry (F716)

Floréal-class frigates

The Floréal-class is a type of light "surveillance frigates" designed for Patrolling its Exclusive Economic Zone (12 million km) and where build in the period of 1990 and 1994 by the Chantiers de l'Atlantique at Saint-Nazaire, France.

Floréal (F730)
Prairial (F731)
Nivôse (F732)
Ventôse (F733)
Vendémiaire (F734)
Germinal (F735)
Messidor (F736)
Thermidor (F737)
Fructidor (F738)
Frimaire (F739)

  That is a hell of a lot of ships for a France that has survived a nuclear exchange and then the chaos that followed!  Was France very lucky or is every remaining state armed to the teeth like this?

[lordroel]

Dec 10, 2021 13:21:23 GMT stevep said:

Dec 9, 2021 21:25:05 GMT lordroel said:

When you have time to do this:

List of active French Navy ships in 2021

More than 21 years after the end of the Twilight War (1996-2000) and 14 years sins the end of the French-Netherlands War (1998-2007) the French Navy has taken part in many operations from the Arabian War (2010-2013) and anti-piracy operations around Africa, Asia and the Caribbean.

Ballistic missile submarines

Triomphant-class submarine

The Triomphant class of ballistic missile submarines of the French Navy is the active lead boat class of six boats that entered service in 1997, 1999, 2004, 2009, 2012 and 2017. These six superseded the older Redoutable class, and they provide the ocean-based component (the Force océanique stratégique) of France's nuclear deterrent strike force, the Force de dissuasion (deterrence force). Their home port is Île Longue, Roadstead of Brest, Western Brittany.

Le Triomphant (S616)
Le Téméraire (S617)
Le Vigilant (S618)
Le Terrible (S619)
Le Audacieux (S620)
Le Fantasque (S621)

Attack Submarines

Rubis nuclear-powered attack submarines

The Rubis class is a series of ten nuclear-powered attack submarines operated by the French Navy. All submarines of the class (except for Casabianca) are named after gemstones.

Rubis (S601)
Saphir (S602)
Casabianca (S603)
Émeraude (S604)
Améthyste (S605)
Perle (S606)
Ambre (S607)
Jade (S608)
Topaze (S609)
Diamant (S610)

République-class submarine

The République class is a nuclear attack submarine intended to replace the Rubis-class submarines. Construction began in 2007 and the first unit was commissioned in late 2020.

République (S611)
Patrie (S611), under construction.
Liberté (S612), under construction.
Démocratie (S613), under construction.

Aircraft carrier

The four Charles de Gaulle-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are the only nuclear-powered carrier in service as of 2021. The class carries a complement of Dassault Rafale M and the AS 532 Cougar Maritime Surveillance Helicopters, AS532 Cougar helicopters for combat search and rescue, AS365F Dauphin Pedro and EC725 Caracals, the class is equipped with modern electronics and Aster missiles.

Charles de Gaulle (R91)
Richelieu (R92)
Charlemagne (R93)
Mitterrand (R94)

Amphibious assault ship

The Mistral class is a class of five amphibious assault ships. Also known as helicopter carriers, and referred to as "projection and command ships" (French: bâtiments de projection et de commandement or BPC), a Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 AS532 Cougar helicopters or Tigre helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 Leclerc tanks, or a 40-strong Leclerc tank battalion and 450 soldiers.

Mistral (L9013)
Tonnerre (L9014)
Dixmude (L9015)
Oléron (L9016)
Levant (L9017)

Frigates

Forbin-class frigate

The Forbin-class (formerly known as the Horizon-class) are a class of highly sophisticated air-defense frigates in service with the French Navy. The program started off as the Common New Generation Frigate (CNGF), a multi-national collaboration to produce a new generation of air-defense frigates. The project originally included the United Kingdom, France and Italy, however due the outbreak of World War III (the "Twilight War") on October 7th 1996 forced both the United Kingdom and Italy to withdraw leaving the French as the only country left in the program.

Forbin (D620)
Chevalier Paul (D621)
Duperré (D622)
Maillé Brézé (D623)

Algérien-class frigate

The Algérien-class frigate is a follow up of the Forbin-class frigate.

Algérien (D624)
Marocain (D625)
Somali (D626)
Sénégalais (D627)

Georges Leygues-class (Type F70) frigate

La Motte-Picquet (D645)
Latouche-Treville (D646)

Aquitaine-class frigate (Anti‑submarine warfare variant)

The lead ship of the class, Aquitaine, was commissioned in November 2012.

Aquitaine (D650)
Normandie (D651)
Provence (D652)
Languedoc (D653)
Auvergne (D654)
Guyane (D655)
Bretagne (D656)
Lorraine (D657)
Limousin (D658)
Bourgogne (D659)
Picardie (D660)
Luxembourg (D661)

Lorraine-class frigate (Anti‑air warfare variant of the Aquitaine-class frigate)

Lorraine (D662)
Martinique (D663)
Occitanie (D664)
Corse (D665)

La Fayette-class frigate

La Fayette (F710)
Surcouf (F711)
Courbet (F712)
Aconit (F713)
Amiral Charner F714)
Cassard (F715)
Jauréguiberry (F716)

Floréal-class frigates

The Floréal-class is a type of light "surveillance frigates" designed for Patrolling its Exclusive Economic Zone (12 million km) and where build in the period of 1990 and 1994 by the Chantiers de l'Atlantique at Saint-Nazaire, France.

Floréal (F730)
Prairial (F731)
Nivôse (F732)
Ventôse (F733)
Vendémiaire (F734)
Germinal (F735)
Messidor (F736)
Thermidor (F737)
Fructidor (F738)
Frimaire (F739)

  That is a hell of a lot of ships for a France that has survived a nuclear exchange and then the chaos that followed!  Was France very lucky or is every remaining state armed to the teeth like this?

France, Belgium, Italy, Greece and Turkey left NATO as due West Germany invading East Germany, France was still subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine.

The French Navy as of 2021 is still the largest but is closely followed by the Royal Navy who after the end of World War III in 2000 is slowly being rebuild now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland has manged to regain full control of the country. The French think that by 2031 the Royal Navy will be on par with the French Navy and after that will surpass them allowing the Royal Navy to reclaim the throne of strongest navy in the world.

The third place would be the United states Navy if it was united under one government, but as of 2021 the United States is still divided between the civilian government "Civgov" and the Joint Chiefs of Staft "Milgov" (the military government).

[stevep]

Dec 10, 2021 14:41:09 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 10, 2021 13:21:23 GMT stevep said:

  That is a hell of a lot of ships for a France that has survived a nuclear exchange and then the chaos that followed!  Was France very lucky or is every remaining state armed to the teeth like this?

France, Belgium, Italy, Greece and Turkey left NATO as due West Germany invading East Germany, France was still subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine.

The French Navy as of 2021 is still the largest but is closely followed by the Royal Navy who after the end of World War III in 2000 is slowly being rebuild now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland has manged to regain full control of the country. The French think that by 2031 the Royal Navy will be on par with the French Navy and after that will surpass them allowing the Royal Navy to reclaim the throne of strongest navy in the world.

The third place would be the United states Navy if it was united under one government, but as of 2021 the United States is still divided between the civilian government "Civgov" and the Joint Chiefs of Staft "Milgov" (the military government).

  lordroel,

  Ah thanks for the background info.  Interesting that despite the war starting off in central Europe that seems to have come out of it pretty well if France and Britain are the top two naval powers.  Suggests that as well as the division - and presumably higher level of devastation - in the US it, Russia, China, Japan etc don't seem to rate too highly. Or could that be simply that the game doesn't cover those areas so just about anything could be happening there?

  I notice that you mention Britain and Ireland rather than N Ireland.  That could be an unstable relationship depending on the circumstances.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Dec 11, 2021 13:41:48 GMT stevep said:

Dec 10, 2021 14:41:09 GMT lordroel said:

France, Belgium, Italy, Greece and Turkey left NATO as due West Germany invading East Germany, France was still subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine.

The French Navy as of 2021 is still the largest but is closely followed by the Royal Navy who after the end of World War III in 2000 is slowly being rebuild now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland has manged to regain full control of the country. The French think that by 2031 the Royal Navy will be on par with the French Navy and after that will surpass them allowing the Royal Navy to reclaim the throne of strongest navy in the world.

The third place would be the United states Navy if it was united under one government, but as of 2021 the United States is still divided between the civilian government "Civgov" and the Joint Chiefs of Staft "Milgov" (the military government).

  lordroel ,

  Ah thanks for the background info.  Interesting that despite the war starting off in central Europe that seems to have come out of it pretty well if France and Britain are the top two naval powers.  Suggests that as well as the division - and presumably higher level of devastation - in the US it, Russia, China, Japan etc don't seem to rate too highly. Or could that be simply that the game doesn't cover those areas so just about anything could be happening there?

  I notice that you mention Britain and Ireland rather than N Ireland.  That could be an unstable relationship depending on the circumstances.

  Steve

During the Twilight War (1996-2000) when the United Kingdom was committed to fighting in West Germany, Ireland decided to come to the aid of the Catholics who where involved in heavy clashes with the Protestants in Northern Ireland. So in 1997 the Irish Defense Force moved into the border counties.

It took 3 years of fighting, mostly between the Irish Defense Force and the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) backed by small British units for the Irish Defense Force to be defeated when the United Kingdom with the end of the fighting could redeploy enough units to push the Irish Defense Force out of Northern Ireland, it would take another 2 years for the British in 2002 to take full control of Ireland.

[stevep]

Dec 11, 2021 14:00:57 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 11, 2021 13:41:48 GMT stevep said:

  lordroel ,

  Ah thanks for the background info.  Interesting that despite the war starting off in central Europe that seems to have come out of it pretty well if France and Britain are the top two naval powers.  Suggests that as well as the division - and presumably higher level of devastation - in the US it, Russia, China, Japan etc don't seem to rate too highly. Or could that be simply that the game doesn't cover those areas so just about anything could be happening there?

  I notice that you mention Britain and Ireland rather than N Ireland.  That could be an unstable relationship depending on the circumstances.

  Steve

During the Twilight War (1996-2000) when the United Kingdom was committed to fighting in West Germany, Ireland decided to come to the aid of the Catholics who where involved in heavy clashes with the Protestants in Northern Ireland. So in 1997 the Irish Defense Force moved into the border counties.

It took 3 years of fighting, mostly between the Irish Defense Force and the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) backed by small British units for the Irish Defense Force to be defeated when the United Kingdom with the end of the fighting could redeploy enough units to push the Irish Defense Force out of Northern Ireland, it would take another 2 years for the British in 2002 to take full control of Ireland.

  lordroel,

  Interesting but probably unlikely I suspect.  The Irish military was pretty small and the Catholics in the north - in large part because of the IRA and other such groups had very little access to either weapons or even para-military training.  As such it would be difficult to see the Irish being able to greatly threaten security in the north.  You could see some pretty nasty atrocities on both sides I fear, especially in the aftermath of a nuclear war and all that involved.

  It does sound like this union is likely to be pretty unstable I fear.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Dec 11, 2021 18:17:32 GMT stevep said:

Dec 11, 2021 14:00:57 GMT lordroel said:

During the Twilight War (1996-2000) when the United Kingdom was committed to fighting in West Germany, Ireland decided to come to the aid of the Catholics who where involved in heavy clashes with the Protestants in Northern Ireland. So in 1997 the Irish Defense Force moved into the border counties.

It took 3 years of fighting, mostly between the Irish Defense Force and the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) backed by small British units for the Irish Defense Force to be defeated when the United Kingdom with the end of the fighting could redeploy enough units to push the Irish Defense Force out of Northern Ireland, it would take another 2 years for the British in 2002 to take full control of Ireland.

  lordroel ,

  It does sound like this union is likely to be pretty unstable I fear.

True but the Irish have not much other options, a disastrous Anglo-Irish War they lost with the north combined with the collapse of the Republic's economy and central government due to Soviet nuclear strikes in the south and fallout from the continent. Ulster and northern Leinster had become battlegrounds, Munster was a radiated dead zone and Connaught was acting on its own. Only the area around Dublin was still under the control of the Irish Provisional Government.

So in 2010 the reunification of Ireland as a loose federation of Connacht, Leinster, Munster, and Ulster under the aegis of the United Kingdom happen, this allowed Unionists a continued link with Britain whilst Republicans had a unified Irish state. Highly autonomous provinces meant also that neither community could dominate the other. The links across the Irish Sea also allowed both countries to help each others recovery. Slowly the hatred stoked by the near genocidal battles of the Twilight and Ireland's earlier history began to fade, but would never quite be forgotten.

Post-Twilight Ireland was dominated by regional forces, many of which were only under tentative control by any leader. The more disciplined forces of Ulster and the Pale were re-organised, retrained and re-equipped, and alongside British troops began to disband the irregular bands and bring order back to Ireland. Later other units were organised in Leinster, Connaught and Munster. Ireland was exhausted and desperate for peace but some warlords were determined to cling onto power and it wasn't until 2017 when the last major strongmen had been dealt with.

In 2020 the Irish referendum happen, with the vote being to become a independent country inside the United Kingdom and thus the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was established.

The British made some arrangements to please the Irish, first they disbanded the UDF and made the rule that any new Irish regiments would be stationed in Ireland which would become the new Irish Division, minus the existing Irish Regiments who would remain part of the British Army So the new Irish Division is formed mixing the traditions of the IDF with the old Irish regiments disbanded in the 1920's. A regiment is created in each of the Southern Irish provinces and with one for Dublin. In Northern Ireland three regiments are retained from the Twilight War forces, whilst the RIR is expanded and would continue to recruit from throughout Ireland.

[lordroel]

So a author i know by the name of Olefin has published some work i made here on this thread, you can find it and get it free by clicking this link: T2000 Fanzine- You're On Your Own No. 6

[Max Sinister]

Seems like they didn't ask any German for how to divide the country, because this really doesn't make much sense. :-)

[lordroel]

Aug 19, 2023 22:54:05 GMT Max Sinister said:

Seems like they didn't ask any German for how to divide the country, because this really doesn't make much sense. :-)

That was mostly my own imagination on what i have read from the Twilight:2000 verse and its follow up 2300AD RPG.

[lordroel]

The new updated map of former Germany from 2007 to 2293.



Map showing former Germany and parts of the Netherlands and France from 2007 onward until the War of German Reunification in 2293.

(Orange) Netherlands capital located in the city of Groningen.

(Gray) Principality of Bentheim (German: Fürstentum Bentheim), the successor to the in March 1998 established Netherlands Military Administration in Bentheim (Dutch: Militaire Administratie in Bentheim) who main function it was to govern the former County of Bentheim (German: Grafschaft Bentheim), it is the sixth and the smallest independent country to be formed out of the former Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic.

(Yellow) Republic vlaanderen, former Dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium, now a independent country allied with the Netherlands, its capitol is in Brussels.

(Green) The Free State of Bavaria (German: Freistaat Bayern), it has its capitol located in the city of Munich.

(Purple) The People Republic of Saxony (German: Volksrepublik Sachsen), official capitol is Berlin, but it being destroyed during the Twilight War (1996-2000) it has its capitol in Dresden.

(Blue) The Unione Francais (English: French Union), its capitol is Paris.

(Light Blue) The State of Baden-Württemberg (German: Land Baden-Württemberg) is located in the southwest, east of the Upper Rhine. Its has its capitol located in the city of Stuttgart.

(Light Green) The Westphalia Republic (German: Westfalen Republik) is a French puppet state formed with its capitol located in the city of Dusseldorf.

(Brown) The country known as Hannover includes the areas of Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein as well as parts of Westphalia, Hesse and Saxony-Anhalt. It has it capitol located in the city of Hannover.

(dark purple) Austrivenia, former Austria and Slovenia, merged in 2015 to become Austrivenia.