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Post by whiteshore on Jul 9, 2017 9:52:50 GMT
As we all know, the weak Russian Republic which arose after the crushing of the Bolshevik uprising fell to Fascism due to the Great Depression under the leadership of Boris Savinkov, but what if the Russian Republic didn't go Fascist? How would a democratic Russia have affected the history of the world and why?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 9, 2017 10:05:30 GMT
As we all know, the weak Russian Republic which arose after the crushing of the Bolshevik uprising fell to Fascism due to the Great Depression under the leadership of Boris Savinkov, but what if the Russian Republic didn't go Fascist? How would a democratic Russia have affected the history of the world and why? No French-German alliance in the 1940s who stopped the Fascist Russians at the battle of Hamburg in the Great Eurasia War. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 9, 2017 10:09:32 GMT
As we all know, the weak Russian Republic which arose after the crushing of the Bolshevik uprising fell to Fascism due to the Great Depression under the leadership of Boris Savinkov, but what if the Russian Republic didn't go Fascist? How would a democratic Russia have affected the history of the world and why? Well presuming it didn't go the other way, into some hard line socialist dictatorship there are considerable advantages here. a) Russia was seeing considerable economic growth until the depression and then Savinkov's coup and the resulting disorder. It helped make the depression deeper just when it looked like international trade might just be recovering. If it had stayed democratic then I think you would have seen a faster recovery, early than the arms driven one that occurred OTL as tension increased between assorted states. Also his cancelling of Russian debts and seizure of foreign assets further disrupted world trade and caused losses, especially for the US and UK. b) Also you may well have avoided WWII, or at least limited it to the Pacific/Asian theatre. Russia and Poland don't like each other but I couldn't see a democratic Russia joining in the partition of Poland with the Nazis. Far more likely it would have continued allying with the western powers and either deterred the Germans from doing something, possibly as early as the Czech crisis, or better still meant a very quick crushing of the still weak Nazi regime over their aggression against either the Czechs or Poles. Instead you ended up with the Germans dominating most of Europe until Hitler's insane attack on the Russians. What could have been a brief stomping of the Nazis over a month or two turned into a 7 year long conflict in which so many died.  You might even have seen some agreement between the allies and a democratic Russia that would have driven the Japanese from China. c) Similarly there wouldn't have been the tension between the western powers and Russia after Germany was finally defeated. Both in Europe and over the Russian occupation of Manchuria and Korea. It was only after Savinkov's death in 1958 that tensions eased and you only saw the fascist state collapse in the mid-60's, fortunately without the nuclear conflict that was so greatly feared. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 9, 2017 10:12:25 GMT
Lordroel
Well we managed to diverge there. I was assuming the Nazis still came to power but did consider a non-Nazis Germany.
Wonder why you only mention a Franco-German alliance? I would expect other powers to be involved as well, most especially Britain. [If only because as well as Britain's clear interests would the French and Germans trust each other without other powerful states keeping the peace between them?]
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 9, 2017 10:16:33 GMT
Lordroel Well we managed to diverge there. I was assuming the Nazis still came to power but did consider a non-Nazis Germany. Wonder why you only mention a Franco-German alliance? I would expect other powers to be involved as well, most especially Britain. [If only because as well as Britain's clear interests would the French and Germans trust each other without other powerful states keeping the peace between them?] Steve The United Kingdom as far as i know did not want to get involved in European continental issues, they supported the Franco-German alliance only with goods and financial but never military. |
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Post by whiteshore on Jul 9, 2017 10:21:19 GMT
As we all know, the weak Russian Republic which arose after the crushing of the Bolshevik uprising fell to Fascism due to the Great Depression under the leadership of Boris Savinkov, but what if the Russian Republic didn't go Fascist? How would a democratic Russia have affected the history of the world and why? No French-German alliance in the 1940s who stopped the Fascist Russians at the battle of Hamburg in the Great Eurasia War. Rommel and De Gaulle's offensives are to this day considered a masterstroke due to their offensives trapping almost all of the Western Front. Also, why do you think did Russia fall to Fascism under Boris Savinkov while the Nazis were unsuccessful? The restoration of the Kaiserreich? |
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Post by whiteshore on Jul 9, 2017 10:22:06 GMT
OOC: In case you didn't figure it out, Boris Savinkov being the leader of a Fascist Russia is a reference to the Kaiserreich mod.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 9, 2017 10:25:39 GMT
OOC: In case you didn't figure it out, Boris Savinkov being the leader of a Fascist Russia is a reference to the Kaiserreich mod. OOC: is that mode good. |
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Post by whiteshore on Jul 9, 2017 10:27:27 GMT
OOC: In case you didn't figure it out, Boris Savinkov being the leader of a Fascist Russia is a reference to the Kaiserreich mod. OOC: is that mode good. OOC: Yes, it's good. Also, can you respond to my other post? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 9, 2017 10:29:40 GMT
No French-German alliance in the 1940s who stopped the Fascist Russians at the battle of Hamburg in the Great Eurasia War. Rommel and De Gaulle's offensives are to this day considered a masterstroke due to their offensives trapping almost all of the Western Front. Also, why do you think did Russia fall to Fascism under Boris Savinkov while the Nazis were unsuccessful? The restoration of the Kaiserreich? Still am amazed that those two manged to rise so quickly up to ranks and also manged to work so good together. |
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Post by whiteshore on Jul 9, 2017 10:30:44 GMT
Still am amazed that those two manged to rise so quickly up to ranks and also manged to work so good together. So, why do you think were Savinkov and co able to take over Russia? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 9, 2017 14:07:44 GMT
Still am amazed that those two manged to rise so quickly up to ranks and also manged to work so good together. So, why do you think were Savinkov and co able to take over Russia? He promise the people the return of a great Russia, of course people who have nothing will support him, and the fact that he manged to gain the support of the Russian Orthodox Church is also a reason why he manged to size control of the Russian Republic. |
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jaguar4life
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Post by jaguar4life on Jul 18, 2017 4:39:22 GMT
Maybe Joe Stalin instead of Being some figure for the communists in America becomes say leader of a communist Russia?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 18, 2017 13:42:44 GMT
Maybe Joe Stalin instead of Being some figure for the communists in America becomes say leader of a communist Russia? IC; i do never understand how a person like him could be a democrat. OOC: Nice i think i see the way you are going with a certain Turtledove book. |
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jaguar4life
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Post by jaguar4life on Jul 18, 2017 17:33:26 GMT
Maybe Joe Stalin instead of Being some figure for the communists in America becomes say leader of a communist Russia? IC; i do never understand how a person like him could be a democrat. OOC: Nice i think i see the way you are going with a certain Turtledove book. Yeah even the most socalist President of Amercia Noam Chomsky was a critic of Stalin. |
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You might even have seen some agreement between the allies and a democratic Russia that would have driven the Japanese from China.