General EU Thread

[lordroel]

Bulgaria and Romania push to join EU's Schengen Area

[spanishspy]

Latvia, a disappearing nation

[stevep]

Feb 24, 2018 13:23:44 GMT spanishspy said:

Latvia, a disappearing nation

  Interesting and worrying for Latvia.  Possibly they might benefit from Britexit if the EU gets its way and cripples the British economy.  On the other hand migrants leaving Britain because their lost their jobs might just end up going somewhere else.  Of course I would rather they stayed in a successful Britain but between the EU and the current crop of British politicians that looks pretty damned unlikely and in the short term it wouldn't help the Latvian problem.

[spanishspy]

Slovakian journalist investigating claims of tax fraud linked to ruling party shot dead

[lordroel]

Northern Ireland 'may become part of EU customs territory'

[stevep]

Feb 27, 2018 22:34:55 GMT spanishspy said:

Slovakian journalist investigating claims of tax fraud linked to ruling party shot dead

  That's worrying.  Including the report of the Italian mafia becoming involved in corruption and criminal activities in the region.

[stevep]

Feb 28, 2018 4:38:08 GMT lordroel said:

Northern Ireland 'may become part of EU customs territory'

  Very unlikely to happen.  There would be too many opponents to such a partition both in Ulster and the rest of the UK.  I think its less a land-grab by the EU than an attempt to try and force yet more concessions on Britain.  [Although I fear they may think they can actually prevent British laws applying there.]

  Johnston is an idiot to say that Britain won't allow a hard border to be recreated between Britain and Ireland because as we all know that's outside Britain's power. 

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 15:57:10 GMT stevep said:

Feb 27, 2018 22:34:55 GMT spanishspy said:

Slovakian journalist investigating claims of tax fraud linked to ruling party shot dead

  That's worrying.  Including the report of the Italian mafia becoming involved in corruption and criminal activities in the region.

Was it not also the case with a Maltese journalist a couple of months ago who was blown up with a car bomb, this is worrisome, these kind of things schould not have to happen in the EU.

[stevep]

Feb 28, 2018 16:03:27 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 28, 2018 15:57:10 GMT stevep said:

  That's worrying.  Including the report of the Italian mafia becoming involved in corruption and criminal activities in the region.

Was it not also the case with a Maltese journalist a couple of months ago who was blown up with a car bomb, this is worrisome, these kind of things schould not have to happen in the EU.

  Your got a large [Very large in the case of the EU] organisation which concentrates a lot of power and wealth and has minimal regard for individual people so corruption flourishes.  It occurs in all such systems and all you can do is try and stamp down on it whenever it occurs.    

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 16:07:25 GMT stevep said:

Feb 28, 2018 16:03:27 GMT lordroel said:

Was it not also the case with a Maltese journalist a couple of months ago who was blown up with a car bomb, this is worrisome, these kind of things schould not have to happen in the EU.

  Your got a large [Very large in the case of the EU] organisation which concentrates a lot of power and wealth and has minimal regard for individual people so corruption flourishes.  It occurs in all such systems and all you can do is try and stamp down on it whenever it occurs.    

I think steve we can agree, any large organisation is vulnerable to any kind of corruption.

[stevep]

Feb 28, 2018 16:12:42 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 28, 2018 16:07:25 GMT stevep said:

  Your got a large [Very large in the case of the EU] organisation which concentrates a lot of power and wealth and has minimal regard for individual people so corruption flourishes.  It occurs in all such systems and all you can do is try and stamp down on it whenever it occurs.    

I think steve we can agree, any large organisation is vulnerable to any kind of corruption.

   That's what I said.  The EU is more vulnerable because of its size and lack of social cohesion but any large system handling a lot of resources are vulnerable.  A clear social identity can help in minimising such problems and also smaller systems because their easier for ordinary people to check abuses of power and because their more likely to be under pressure from other groups and hence have a need to maintain popular support.

[lordroel]

Reality Check: How much of the UK's trade is with the EU?

[stevep]

Feb 28, 2018 16:39:34 GMT lordroel said:

Reality Check: How much of the UK's trade is with the EU?

  Interesting explanation of the difference between the two figures.  So Johnson was only including exports while Donnelly is inflating the affected figures by including areas currently open to free trade due to EU deals.  On hearing this the other day, given the tight grip the EU seeks to keep on trade activity its rather surprising that the UK has ~40% trade with other areas. 

  A lot depends on how things are handled.  Restrictions on imports from the EU if it insists on trade barriers may not be too bad for the UK, especially since it would more access to other and quite possibly cheaper alternatives.  How long it takes the government to get its act together and start negotiating new trade deals with 3rd parties is a more worrying issue given the mess the current government is making of this.  [Working on the assumption here, which looks all too likely, that the hard-liners in Brussels continue to oppose a mutually beneficial divorce in preference for a punishment stance that hurts both parties.]

  I think there is a fair chance that in the short term most trade between Britain and the EU will continue even if the EU insists on making it more expensive, simply because people on both sides are likely to prefer keeping established supplies rather than having to find new ones but things could diverge after that depending on how much cheaper alternative sources are, how economic circumstances change in the different areas and how flexible systems become.  [In this latter case both the UK and the EU have a reputation for being very inflexible. ]

[James G]

Feb 28, 2018 16:59:41 GMT stevep said:

Feb 28, 2018 16:39:34 GMT lordroel said:

Reality Check: How much of the UK's trade is with the EU?

  Interesting explanation of the difference between the two figures.  So Johnson was only including exports while Donnelly is inflating the affected figures by including areas currently open to free trade due to EU deals.  On hearing this the other day, given the tight grip the EU seeks to keep on trade activity its rather surprising that the UK has ~40% trade with other areas. 

  A lot depends on how things are handled.  Restrictions on imports from the EU if it insists on trade barriers may not be too bad for the UK, especially since it would more access to other and quite possibly cheaper alternatives.  How long it takes the government to get its act together and start negotiating new trade deals with 3rd parties is a more worrying issue given the mess the current government is making of this.  [Working on the assumption here, which looks all too likely, that the hard-liners in Brussels continue to oppose a mutually beneficial divorce in preference for a punishment stance that hurts both parties.]

  I think there is a fair chance that in the short term most trade between Britain and the EU will continue even if the EU insists on making it more expensive, simply because people on both sides are likely to prefer keeping established supplies rather than having to find new ones but things could diverge after that depending on how much cheaper alternative sources are, how economic circumstances change in the different areas and how flexible systems become.  [In this latter case both the UK and the EU have a reputation for being very inflexible. ]

This has always been my thinking on the issue with trade. Too much to lose in the immediate term. Last minute deals pushed by big bad money. Later on, both sides will move away from established links. Some politicians on both sides would love to burn it all down yet 'money talks and male bovine waste walks' is how I see a deal on trade. Other areas are up in the air.

[lordroel]

DUTCH PM RUTTE WANTS LESS INTEGRATION IN THE EU

Unlike French President Emmanuel Macron, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte doesn't want to push forward with integration in the EU. The EU is not an "unstoppable train speeding towards federalism", he said in a speech on his vision for the future of the EU in Berlin on Friday. He demanded that the Union works more for its Member States, instead of the other way around, the Financial Times reports.

Rutte wants member states to take more responsibility for their own problems and own financial stability. "That the Dutch national football team won't be competing at the next World Cup is not a reason to send a European team in 2022. The Netherlands is going to get there on its own, I guarantee that", the Dutch Prime Minister said.

Rutte addressed France and Germany's wish for a European emergency fund. Rutte is not against such a fund, but he thinks that asking for aid from other EU countries should be a "last resort, not first aid", he said. "The recipe for a larger cake is not centralized bailout funds and printing more money, but structural reforms and sound budgets."

And if countries can't get their affairs in order, Brussels should be able to punish them, Rutte said. Subsidies countries receive should not be taken for granted. If Member States do not adhere to the EU economic agreements, subsidies must be withdrawn. "A deal is a deal", Rutte said.

The remaining EU members should also not push more money into the EU budget after the Brexit, Rutte said. "My goal for the multi annual budget is this: no increase in contributions, but better results with a smaller budget."

Nevertheless, Rutte believes that the future of the Netherlands is in the European Union, as long as the EU takes on concrete projects, he said, according to broadcaster NOS. He wants the EU to focus on security and stability in the coming years. "It is absolutely clear that no Member State can deal with these developments alone: insecurity and instability are many headed monsters. Our unanimity is the best weapon against this", he said. "Pompous visions don't provide jobs and safety. Nor does screaming on the flanks. Only hard work does that. Step by step.", Rutte said.