Dan
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Post by Dan on Feb 16, 2018 10:03:09 GMT
I'm thinking of binning the last update as it doesn't quite fit with my original idea.
That said, the Jet engine technology transfer was an factual event, and provided the engines for the MiG-15, used to shoot down British aircraft over Korea.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 16, 2018 10:08:51 GMT
That said, the Jet engine technology transfer was an factual event, and provided the engines for the MiG-15, used to shoot down British aircraft over Korea. I wonder if the Americans where happy with that. |
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Dan
Warrant Officer
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Post by Dan on Feb 16, 2018 10:51:12 GMT
Updated the last post, it works better now.
I'll save Chairman Beria for a different timeline idea.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 16, 2018 14:48:42 GMT
Updated the last post, it works better now. I'll save Chairman Beria for a different timeline idea. Beria was pure evil. A TL with him at the head of a superpower like the USSR would be dark. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 16, 2018 14:52:00 GMT
Updated the last post, it works better now. I'll save Chairman Beria for a different timeline idea. Beria was pure evil. A TL with him at the head of a superpower like the USSR would be dark. Who was more evil Beria ore Stalin. |
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Dan
Warrant Officer
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Post by Dan on Feb 16, 2018 19:19:53 GMT
I'd say they were different kinds of evil. Stalin enjoyed being evil for political and power reasons, liked to spread it around and never changed, Beria was personally monstrous, but politically liberal.
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insect
Banned
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Post by insect on Feb 17, 2018 19:45:22 GMT
Continue please
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Feb 17, 2018 19:48:21 GMT
I can only add to this! Dan has left us hanging on, waiting for more! |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2018 20:27:14 GMT
Beria was personally monstrous, but politically liberal. A politically liberal monster, the first time i ever heard of this term. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2018 23:18:54 GMT
Beria was personally monstrous, but politically liberal. A politically liberal monster, the first time i ever heard of this term. Probably depends on how you define liberal. There are a number of alternatives. |
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2018 13:26:51 GMT
"While it took a further thirty years before it became publicly known, it was the 1951 unmasking of Donald MacClean as an agent of the Soviet Intelligence services that allowed for the utter emasculation of the British Intelligence agencies by the KGB. Something, that had certain people, now known to also be Soviet Agents, not been involved in the subsequent investigation, it is possible that the history of this country could have turned out very differently indeed. It has been the subject of many a 'What If' historical exploration, what if the Cambridge ring had been broken earlier, however, the rather blood-thirsty nature of many of these writings means that almost invariably, they end at one point of another in the following years in a storm of nuclear fire.
The approach of the British government, to keep the incident quiet and brush it under the carpet is completely in character for the times. It did however result in some changes that proved to sow the seeds for what happened many years later.
Sir David Petrie had retired 5 years previously, appointing Sir Guy Liddell to be his replacement at the head of MI-5, and the replacement as head of counter intelligence, Sir Percy Silitoe. It was upon the neck of Silitoe that the axe of recrimination fell, and Liddell, a close friend, was somehow unaware of Burgess other allegiances, appointed Burgess as Silitoe's replacement. It is without doubt one of the greatest coups that the Soviets could have imagined making, and without a doubt, Stalin and Beria must have felt that the Christmases they did not believe in must have all come at once. As we will see later, this opened the door, and later events would see that door, and it's corresponding frame removed entirely.
Much was made, following the publication of the former Labour MP, Ellen Wilkinson's diary where she hints that she intended to speak to the Home Secretary at the time, Herbert Morrison, with regards to Liddell's connections with Burgess and his suspected Communist sympathies. It is, in the opinion of this writer, that had this been made public at the time, it would have been insufficient to prevent Liddell or Burgess' appointment*, however this is a matter for further debate and in the 'What If' community, a far under explored possibility.
This aside, Burgess was in a position to direct the investigation into the activities of MacClean and ensured that the light of suspicion did not shine on any of the other known Cambridge ring spies, and so the official report stated that MacClean's access had been limited and that the damage caused had been minor. In any event, the report concluded that due to the lack of damage caused, it would not be in the public interest to prosecute MacClean, and he was allowed to leave the security services, albeit without his civil service pension and no references. While it is seen today as a slightest of taps on the wrist, in the world of the 1950's, this was the worst thing that could happen short of a prison sentence. We will look at MacClean's later life, his partial rehabilitation and his eventual fate in a later chapter"
Post War British History, a Student's primer - Prof Micheal Stuchbery, (Edinburgh University Press - 2013)
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 19, 2018 13:36:51 GMT
Ah, the man appointed to catch the spies is the spy himself!
From the point of view of hostiles, that is probably the best possible placement: counter-intelligence can be utterly subdued that way, or, better, manipulated to look elsewhere and chasing shadows.
I like the 'what if' references plus how that is dismissed at one point but expanded upon elsewhere.
Well done. Plenty of different things can be taken from this.
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Dan
Warrant Officer
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Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2018 22:28:39 GMT
Ah, the man appointed to catch the spies is the spy himself! From the point of view of hostiles, that is probably the best possible placement: counter-intelligence can be utterly subdued that way, or, better, manipulated to look elsewhere and chasing shadows. I like the 'what if' references plus how that is dismissed at one point but expanded upon elsewhere. Well done. Plenty of different things can be taken from this. It gets worse. Who does the vetting for all the sensitive jobs? |
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Feb 19, 2018 23:34:52 GMT
Ah, the man appointed to catch the spies is the spy himself! From the point of view of hostiles, that is probably the best possible placement: counter-intelligence can be utterly subdued that way, or, better, manipulated to look elsewhere and chasing shadows. I like the 'what if' references plus how that is dismissed at one point but expanded upon elsewhere. Well done. Plenty of different things can be taken from this. It gets worse. Who does the vetting for all the sensitive jobs? Counter-intelligence does the vetting, naturally... |
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Dan
Warrant Officer
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Post by Dan on Feb 19, 2018 23:37:37 GMT
It gets worse. Who does the vetting for all the sensitive jobs? Counter-intelligence does the vetting, naturally... Sensitive jobs such as the head of SIS... |
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