Miles From Our Home: 2018 Canada ISOTed to December 1939

[stevep]

May 16, 2018 14:59:09 GMT lordroel said:

May 16, 2018 14:51:38 GMT redrobin65 said:

As one can imagine, an entire country appearing out of thin air spread shockwaves around the world.
In the United States, many were suspicious and even fearful about the beliefs of uptime Canada. It wasn’t hard to cross the border or listen to a radio broadcast, and many Americans did just that. They saw that Canada was a country where people of different races, religions, and orientations lived together. Together! Not segregated! Unsurprisingly, some religious and racist elements in the US had a field day. Don’t go to Canada, they’re the most immoral people you will ever meet! Bunch of drunks and druggies!

However, more moderate elements of US society were curious about the Canadians. Several journalists and high-ranking politicians were given carefully selected tours in many different cities. Many were astounded. The cars that Canadians drove and the planes they flew in were beyond anything they could have ever imagined. The glass skyscrapers and modern houses drove the point home.

Some Canadians tried to cross the border into the United States for a variety of reasons. Some wanted to see 1940’s buildings, others wanted to lecture Americans about their beliefs. A select few tried to get to the German Embassy in Washington DC; none made it. The interstate highway system had not been constructed yet, and most troublemakers were stopped right at the border. The two who made it across were either arrested or got lost, subsequently being dragged back to Canada.

Britain and France were wary about some of the uptime beliefs, but said nothing as the Canadians were gearing up to fight. These two countries were happy that the CAF was pouring into their lands. Generally, the people living there had a less radical reaction than their American counterparts did. While they had their fair share of bigots, most were excited to see what the future held.

Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway had all been informed about the fates of their countries. Most were horrified, but happy to hear about the historical information and assistance provided by Canada. It was felt that Belgium, the Netherlands and Norway could be held when the Germans came. Denmark accelerated its plans for a government in exile, evacuating important artifacts to Britain.

Germany got no contact from Canada. The Reich had agents in the United States and Britain who reported that the country had indeed came from 2018. Many high-ranking Nazis scoffed at this; Hitler himself was reported to have chuckled and threw the document into a waste bin. Others were more alarmed, especially given the disturbing amount of U-boats sunk in the last month.

Nice update, i wonder if the Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway and other 2018 embassies in Canada have contact with their 1940s counterparts.

  I would expect so as their probably in the best position to do so in most cases.

  One awkward problem might be in Belgium where OTL the king, instead of leaving the country to lead a government in exile stayed and seems to have lost a fair amount of support for doing so.  When news of this reaches Belgium it might cause him to change his historical stance.

  Of course with so much information being spread about reports are going to reach Germany of what happened OTL and how successful the offensive was.  Which might trigger them attempting to attack earlier or deciding to do something different.  Although relatively little they could do other than not attack at all.  Which might prompt Belgium and the Netherlands to seek to stay neutral and would reduce options for the allies to take the war to Germany but difficult to see the Germans staying that passive.

  I wonder how the Canadians view the plans for strategic bombing.  They could well be opposed to the OTL strategic bombing campaigns by BC and the USAAF as both immoral and generally ineffective and very expensive for the allies.  Possibly could suggest carefully targeted strikes by some of their modern a/c which could be very, very effective if the right targets are selected and hit.  However always likely to see some losses to accidents or fluke hits and that could be politically unpopular.

[redrobin65]

As expected, the Shift had a huge impact on the civilian population.

Canada had a very long border with its southern neighbor. There are roads, railways, power lines and a myriad of other things running across the 49th parallel. These were mutually beneficial to both countries uptime…but showed their deadly side in the Shift.

There were many, many vehicle accidents as the country moved through time and space. Six freight and two passenger trains derailed. There were devastating plane crashes when pilots were blinded. Cars veered into each other and into pedestrians. People were electrocuted when cross border power lines came lose. Excluding the change in weather that killed some, casualties from the Shift amounted to 304 dead and 441 injured.

Forward thinking oil workers in Hardisty, Alberta managed to activate the shut off valves for the Keystone pipeline. Nevertheless, the damage was done. Oil leaked out on the Manitoba/North Dakota border, causing headaches on both sides. This would provide ammunition for a certain provincial government in the area…

The economy staggered due to the loss of every single trading partner. The government implemented a brief bank holiday and implemented capital controls. The country saw a spike in unemployment as businesses who were now irrelevant were forced to close their doors. Canada needed to recover quickly. Many people were eventually employed in the rapidly expanding Armed Forces and its supporting industries, but this was (rightly) not seen as sustainable in the long term. There were plans to sell technology to other countries at high prices. This was accepted as a way to temporarily stave off total economic collapse, but manufacturing needed to get up and running again.

Attendance at religious services rose as many were distraught at the loss of foreign relatives and friends. The officials who ran these services did not really have an explanation as to why, but they did offer help to those who needed it.

Others were concerned at the state of the world. The ‘home’ countries of many Canadians were now under German, Soviet, British, French, Belgian Japanese, Italian, Dutch or American rule. They protested in the streets that the government do something. Their hands were tied, though. While not many in the Trudeau government were fans of colonialism, they were trying to establish friendly relations with most of these powers. These questions would have to wait until the Axis was dealt with.

The Internet saw gaps in coverage as many websites went offline. The trolls were still around, as was everyone else. Famous websites went ‘dark’, as did many order-based services. That last one really set people on fire. They couldn’t import rare electronics, copies of The Tsar’s Last Armada, or the latest waifu dakimakura body pillow. Everyone would have to adapt to this reality.

[lordroel]

May 28, 2018 14:12:53 GMT redrobin65 said:

The Internet saw gaps in coverage as many websites went offline. The trolls were still around, as was everyone else. Famous websites went ‘dark’, as did many order-based services. That last one really set people on fire. They couldn’t import rare electronics, copies of The Tsar’s Last Armada, or the latest waifu dakimakura body pillow. Everyone would have to adapt to this reality.

That suck, but surely Canada has it own servers and such to compensate and keep internet going.

[redrobin65]

May 28, 2018 14:16:59 GMT lordroel said:

May 28, 2018 14:12:53 GMT redrobin65 said:

The Internet saw gaps in coverage as many websites went offline. The trolls were still around, as was everyone else. Famous websites went ‘dark’, as did many order-based services. That last one really set people on fire. They couldn’t import rare electronics, copies of The Tsar’s Last Armada, or the latest waifu dakimakura body pillow. Everyone would have to adapt to this reality.

That suck, but surely Canada has it own servers and such to compensate and keep internet going.

We have a few (IIRC there's are some big ones in Ontario, Quebec and B.C.), but a lot of people are going to lose a lot of data stored on American/European servers, especially in the Cloud.

[lordroel]

May 28, 2018 14:21:35 GMT redrobin65 said:

May 28, 2018 14:16:59 GMT lordroel said:

That suck, but surely Canada has it own servers and such to compensate and keep internet going.

We have a few (IIRC there's are some big ones in Ontario, Quebec and B.C.), but a lot of people are going to lose a lot of data stored on American/European servers, especially in the Cloud.

Seems Google is also gone, it has no data centers in Canada according to this map all if i think are located in the United States.

[James G]

I very much like the human focus of the TL. That so often gets forgotten in ISOTs.

[redrobin65]

January 12th to April 8th

Eighty-seven days of progress and change.

Canada had been exporting bits and pieces of uptime technology to different countries. The Americans, British, French and others found lots of value in innovations such as Kevlar vests/helmets, antibiotics, rifles such as the F1 FAL, even calculators.

There were thousands of downtime Canadians who had been outside of their country at the time of the Shift. Unsurprisingly, they were shocked and upset at the disappearance of their friends and loved ones. They moved back to Canada gradually, and had mixed feelings. On the one hand, uptime Canada appeared to be a marvel of technology. On the other hand, the culture shock was immense. Not only did the downtimers have to find residencies and employment, they also had to recognize that Canada was vastly different than what they were used to. There were many more immigrants, women were in positions of power, and behavior that had been taboo in their time was now legal.

Foreign uptimers took many different paths. Some returned to their home countries, but others couldn’t or wouldn’t. Uptime Germans couldn’t go anyways (not like they would want to) because of the blockade. Many from other wouldn’t return even if paid to do so. Their countries were authoritarian, under foreign rule, or just not accomadating of them. Many uptime Americans who were ethnic or sexual minorities shuddered at their fates if they went south. Hundreds of thousands from all kinds of countries stayed in Canada. Others left for their own countries. Plenty of American, British, French, Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish and Finnish nationals crossed the border or went overseas to their home nations.

The Canadian Army saw major reorganization in this time period. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th divisions were all stripped of their Regular brigades: 1, 2 and 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade-Groups. They were shipped to the UK and organized into the 1st Mechanized Division. 1MD would cross the Channel before Fall Gelb.

The Army had ten Reserve brigades who would be given different roles. Some formations temporarily served as training units while others began the long process of retooling, training and strengthening their numbers. All of these brigades were small (41 Canadian Brigade-Group in Alberta had only 1,300 personnel) and lightly armed.

By April 8th, 250,000 men and women had volunteered for military service (165,000 Army, 55,000 Air Force, 30,000 Navy). The uniform problems had mostly been rectified, the equipment problems not so much. Rifles, machine guns and unguided rockets were produced without too much difficulty. Aircraft, complex missile systems and armoured vehicles were another story.

The RCAF wanted everything: fighters, helicopters, AWACS, tankers, transports. Getting all of that quickly was not realistic. It took months to build fighter jets even in countries who produced plenty. Canada had not built any since the early 1970’s with the Canadair (now Bombardier) CF-5 Freedom Fighter, a fighter that was inferior to most of its contemporaries. Nonetheless, it was better than anything the Axis could put into the air, so it would be produced with modern electronics and radar. The Bombardier plant suffered delay after delay (as per usual, it’s Bombardier after all). The knowledge and blueprints were there, but the capacity was not.

Top Aces Defence in Toronto had 16 Dornier Alpha Jets and 10 McDonnell Douglas A-4N/TA-4J aircraft in its possession. The RCAF showed interest in them and some were turned over to Bristol/Magellan in Winnipeg. Already expanding their facilities, they planned to replicate and produce these aircraft.

Bell Canada had begun production of the Griffon and Chinook helicopters and was successful so far. They had also dusted off blueprints of the AH-1Z attack helicopter to see if it was possible to build those. Only after there were enough of the first two would this happen.

Initially, Lockheed-Martin/Sikorsky and Boeing did not make large amounts of Cyclones, C-130s or C-17s for a few reasons. Firstly, they were busy trying to build bombs, missiles and torpedoes. The military was not rich in the amounts of munitions that they had, so these were urgent. Secondly, their facilities were small, mostly devoted to making parts for airliners. They had to sort out their production issues.

General Dynamics in London was pumping out LAV-IIIs as fast as it could, which was not light speed. They had to wait for materials from overseas like everyone else. Nonetheless, they knew exactly how to make those vehicles, and were ordered by the Government to restart production on the Cougar, Grizzly, and Husky AVGPs. They took apart a British AS-90 and a Starstreak LML to inspect them and hopefully reproduce them.

Textron/Rheinmetall were able to produce more TAPVs, as they had already been doing this uptime. However, they were also given the task of building Leopard 2s! The management rightly saw this as a pie in the sky idea, as none of the complex materials were available in Canada at the time of the Shift. There would not be any new Leopards until 1943 at the earliest.

Rheinmetall also had the job of reproducing the C3 105mm and M777 155mm howitzer. The former was simple, the latter a bit more difficult. The technology had to be replicated without messing up anything, which was not easy.

The RCN was urgently looking for new ships for training and combat operations. Three older commercial container ships were acquired by the Navy to turn into dedicated supply vessels. This would take months of 24/7 work.

Canada had 12 frigates, which was not enough for combat operations. However, Canadian shipyards still were not entirely ready to commence the CSC project. They increased their construction of building facilities, but it was not realistic that they would be able to quickly build warships.

There were three contenders for the Canadian Surface Combatant project: the Dutch De Zeven Provencien, British Type 26, and the Spanish F-105. The Dutch design was picked, as Alion Canada had the most resources of the three competing companies. Still, it would take a long time for the first hull to hit the water.

MFOHMFOHMFOHMFOH

The Royal Norwegian Navy puts to sea between April 6th and 8th.
Critical artifacts are evacuated from the Danish capital of Copenhagen.
Elements of the Royal Danish Army take up positions near the German-Danish border.

[lordroel]

Jun 6, 2018 17:32:32 GMT redrobin65 said:

The Dutch design was picked, as Alion Canada had the most resources of the three competing companies. Still, it would take a long time for the first hull to hit the water.

Nice to see a update redrobin65, you are right, the first frigate based on the De Zeven Provinciën-class might take 3 to 4 years, but that raises the question, Canada does not produce the Mk.41 vertical launch system (and the RIM-66 ore the Sea Sparrow Missile that are used), Phalanx,Oto Melara dual-purpose gun (ore what ever the Canadian will use) and the SMART-L (Signaal Multibeam Acquisition Radar for Tracking, L band)[1] is a naval long-range search radar, so how are they going to solve that.

[redrobin65]

Jun 6, 2018 17:40:21 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 6, 2018 17:32:32 GMT redrobin65 said:

The Dutch design was picked, as Alion Canada had the most resources of the three competing companies. Still, it would take a long time for the first hull to hit the water.

Nice to see a update redrobin65, you are right, the first frigate based on the De Zeven Provinciën-class might take 3 to 4 years, but that raises the question, Canada does not produce the Mk.41 vertical launch system (and the RIM-66 ore the Sea Sparrow Missile that are used), Phalanx,Oto Melara dual-purpose gun (ore what ever the Canadian will use) and the SMART-L (Signaal Multibeam Acquisition Radar for Tracking, L band)[1] is a naval long-range search radar, so how are they going to solve that.

Canada will attempt to develop its own VLS with mixed results.

The Phalanx is on the Halifaxes and there are spares that can be replicated.The gun will have to be developed.

The radar will be created from the ground up with resources and knowledge from subsidiaries and the RCN. It wouldn't be as good as the original DZP.

Basically, imagine copying something with the help of your friends but without a model to directly look at.

[lordroel]

Jun 6, 2018 17:54:52 GMT redrobin65 said:

Jun 6, 2018 17:40:21 GMT lordroel said:

Nice to see a update redrobin65 , you are right, the first frigate based on the De Zeven Provinciën-class might take 3 to 4 years, but that raises the question, Canada does not produce the Mk.41 vertical launch system (and the RIM-66 ore the Sea Sparrow Missile that are used), Phalanx,Oto Melara dual-purpose gun (ore what ever the Canadian will use) and the SMART-L (Signaal Multibeam Acquisition Radar for Tracking, L band)[1] is a naval long-range search radar, so how are they going to solve that.

Canada will attempt to develop its own VLS with mixed results.

The Phalanx is on the Halifaxes and there are spares that can be replicated.The gun will have to be developed.

The radar will be created from the ground up with resources and knowledge from subsidiaries and the RCN. It wouldn't be as good as the original DZP.

Basically, imagine copying something with the help of your friends but without a model to directly look at.

Well, its only 1939, so the radar does not need to be that advance as the L-smart, maybe something like the HMCS Haida, but that might be a little bit to old, but a start.

Also, what about this submarine: HMCS Onondaga, can the Canadian still use here in some form.

[redrobin65]

Jun 6, 2018 18:03:47 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 6, 2018 17:54:52 GMT redrobin65 said:

Canada will attempt to develop its own VLS with mixed results.

The Phalanx is on the Halifaxes and there are spares that can be replicated.The gun will have to be developed.

The radar will be created from the ground up with resources and knowledge from subsidiaries and the RCN. It wouldn't be as good as the original DZP.

Basically, imagine copying something with the help of your friends but without a model to directly look at.

Well, its only 1939, so the radar does not need to be that advance as the L-smart, maybe something like the HMCS Haida, but that might be a little bit to old, but a start.

Also, what about this submarine: HMCS Onondaga, can the Canadian still use here in some form.

She could *probably* be used as a trainer, but combat ops with Onondaga would be a bridge too far.

Haida has been milked already; it would be unwise to use her.

[lordroel]

Jun 6, 2018 17:32:32 GMT redrobin65 said:

The RCN was urgently looking for new ships for training and combat operations. Three older commercial container ships were acquired by the Navy to turn into dedicated supply vessels. This would take months of 24/7 work.

You have forgotten the 2 Protecteur-class auxiliary vessels (Protecteur and Preservere).

[redrobin65]

Jun 6, 2018 18:51:33 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 6, 2018 17:32:32 GMT redrobin65 said:

The RCN was urgently looking for new ships for training and combat operations. Three older commercial container ships were acquired by the Navy to turn into dedicated supply vessels. This would take months of 24/7 work.

You have forgotten the 2 Protecteur-class auxiliary vessels (Protecteur and Preservere).

Both retired.

[James G]

So Canada is sending its best, well-equipped troops to France.
For the 1st Canadian Infantry Division, I would expect that they would smash apart German recon units coming at them and dance around a panzer force wrecking its attack entirely. The test will be though closing in for a fight. Artillery, rockets and air power can do a lot but there will have to be a real fight in the end. You have to let the other guy know he has lost. The casualties will be massive. The Germans will have old gear/tech but will still fight, especially when they get the chance to get at an enemy which has been unsporting. The Heer still had victory disease and its pride.
An eventual fight will cost Canada dear on the battlefield and at home when casualty reports arrive.

Another thought. Any reforming plans for a Canadian Airborne Regiment / Special Service Force? With fast transports and excellent navigation equipment, Canadian paratroopers can do some amazing stuff if used right.

[redrobin65]

Jun 6, 2018 19:29:38 GMT James G said:

So Canada is sending its best, well-equipped troops to France.
For the 1st Canadian Infantry Division, I would expect that they would smash apart German recon units coming at them and dance around a panzer force wrecking its attack entirely. The test will be though closing in for a fight. Artillery, rockets and air power can do a lot but there will have to be a real fight in the end. You have to let the other guy know he has lost. The casualties will be massive. The Germans will have old gear/tech but will still fight, especially when they get the chance to get at an enemy which has been unsporting. The Heer still had victory disease and its pride.
An eventual fight will cost Canada dear on the battlefield and at home when casualty reports arrive.

Another thought. Any reforming plans for a Canadian Airborne Regiment / Special Service Force? With fast transports and excellent navigation equipment, Canadian paratroopers can do some amazing stuff if used right.

Yeah, the battles in France won't be pretty.

Canada is putting together Airborne units, but not under the CAR name for political reasons that are brought forward whenever the idea of creating Airborne units comes up.