Reverse Cold War: Communist USA Vs. Capitalist China

[TheRomanSlayer]

If China has to remain an empire in order to make it into a capitalist powerhouse without any regards for worker's rights, I would suggest that China (or rather, the Qing) perform better in the Sino-Burmese War of 1765-69, although this might result in a serious overstretch. Perhaps if the Qing backed Siamese separatists against the Burmese, the Chinese might have a shot at acquiring an Indian Ocean port directly, or indirectly.

[Zyobot]

Aug 9, 2018 3:52:19 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

If China has to remain an empire in order to make it into a capitalist powerhouse without any regards for worker's rights, I would suggest that China (or rather, the Qing) perform better in the Sino-Burmese War of 1765-69, although this might result in a serious overstretch. Perhaps if the Qing backed Siamese separatists against the Burmese, the Chinese might have a shot at acquiring an Indian Ocean port directly, or indirectly.

Interesting possibility. About that possible Indian Ocean port, could it be the start of a Chinese trade empire?

Let's also keep in mind that the Industrial Revolution is gaining steam (no pun intended) during the 1760s. Could China replicate this modernization and become a laissez-faire superpower from there?

[spanishspy]

Would China necessarily have to be run by the Qing Dynasty? A Republic of China that maintains rule over the country against the Communists could develop into the sort of capitalist power that you want.

[lordroel]

Aug 13, 2018 13:49:30 GMT spanishspy said:

Would China necessarily have to be run by the Qing Dynasty? A Republic of China that maintains rule over the country against the Communists could develop into the sort of capitalist power that you want.

Would a Nationalist controlled China be anything better than a communist controlled China.

[Zyobot]

Aug 13, 2018 13:49:30 GMT spanishspy said:

Would China necessarily have to be run by the Qing Dynasty? A Republic of China that maintains rule over the country against the Communists could develop into the sort of capitalist power that you want.

I mean, we could do that. Still, I like the idea of a Qing China that'll grab land in order to harvest its economic assets and set up do-as-you-please areas. But that's just me.

Maybe make China into a colossal Hong Kong with various anarcho-capitalistic zones, overwhelming privatization and laissez-faire economics that makes OTL America look almost socialist, and we'll be good. Why not also add free market capitalism into their constitution and have it impossible to alter, too?

[Zyobot]

Aug 13, 2018 14:06:22 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 13, 2018 13:49:30 GMT spanishspy said:

Would China necessarily have to be run by the Qing Dynasty? A Republic of China that maintains rule over the country against the Communists could develop into the sort of capitalist power that you want.

Would a Nationalist controlled China be anything better than a communist controlled China.

If I'm not mistaken, the Kuomintang--while anticommunist--supported nationalized industries and/or state-guided capitalism. What I'm looking for is a laissez-faire China that's essentially an Asian reflection of the OTL United States, at least economically speaking.

[lordroel]

Aug 13, 2018 14:18:03 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 13, 2018 14:06:22 GMT lordroel said:

Would a Nationalist controlled China be anything better than a communist controlled China.

If I'm not mistaken, the Kuomintang--while anticommunist--supported nationalized industries and/or state-guided capitalism. What I'm looking for is a laissez-faire China that's essentially an Asian reflection of the OTL United States, at least economically speaking.

And ruled by a father and son until the early 1990s, so how do we not know if that happens if the Kuomintang controls mainland China.

[spanishspy]

Aug 13, 2018 14:18:03 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 13, 2018 14:06:22 GMT lordroel said:

Would a Nationalist controlled China be anything better than a communist controlled China.

If I'm not mistaken, the Kuomintang--while anticommunist--supported nationalized industries and/or state-guided capitalism. What I'm looking for is a laissez-faire China that's essentially an Asian reflection of the OTL United States, at least economically speaking.

That's what the founders of the Republic intended, yes, but as the sheer wealth of China shows its promise I can see them liberalizing to what you intend, economically if not politically.

[Zyobot]

I have a idea that, with boatloads of fact-checking and oodles of tweaking, might fit the bill.

I wonder if Peter the Great could "Britainize" Russia circa 1721, as in establish a democratic parliamentary system and provide his people with certain rights and freedoms. Combined with the empire's sheer resources, perhaps this kicks off the Industrial Revolution in Russia as well--and China may very well follow suit, though I don't precisely know how to make the latter the dominant of the two, nor how to make it a nearly anarcho-capitalistic superpower.

British North America (or BNA), meanwhile, remains an English colony under the control of its colonial masters. Whatever industrialization it does undergo ultimately serves the mogul, the noble, or the detached, far-away islands that take the lion's share of BNA's economic productivity. For all their toiling, the colonists seldom receive more than scraps for living under English monopolies that put domestic enterprises out of business, or practical slavery as the workers toil in filthy factories and death-prone mines for the profit of people who often don't live in BNA. Of course, it's only a matter of time before one monumental mistake triggers an American socialist revolution.

I predict that much of why the American colonists revolt while the Asian workers don't (or do so much less often that governments see no need to interfere) will come down to a matter of perspective in this case. Outside of that, the Russians and Chinese--for their almost unfettered laissez-fairism--still enjoy the fact that their industrialization is (mostly) benefiting them, whereas the people of BNA are being plundered and polluted by imperialist overlords. So I suppose it's a game of "hey, could be worse" for those at the bottom rung of industrializing Asia.