Axis Powers controlled territory July '42 to July '92

[mullauna]

The territory controlled by the Axis Powers and their clients and puppets at noon GMT on July 1st, 1942 arrives at noon GMT on July 1st. 1992.

The 1992 USA is in the middle of an election campaign... how do Bush and Clinton react?

The UK?

[lordroel]

May 17, 2019 12:28:17 GMT mullauna said:

The territory controlled by the Axis Powers and their clients and puppets at noon GMT on July 1st, 1942 arrives at noon GMT on July 1st. 1992.

The 1992 USA is in the middle of an election campaign... how do Bush and Clinton react?

The UK?

In three word, World War III, also do we consir Italy in 1942 a German puppet ore was that only from 1943 onward.

[Deleted]

Considering the number of troops and equipment the US has lost in West Germany and Italy, an immediate DoW and B-52s and B-1s

Also all nuclear arms treaties with the USSR are now void.

[mullauna]

It's 1992 the 1942 AXIS have arrived in, so no Cold War and no USSR.

[lordroel]

May 17, 2019 13:21:09 GMT mullauna said:

It's 1992 the 1942 AXIS have arrived in, so no Cold War and no USSR.

But most likely it will be World War 2.5 ore World War III.

[mullauna]

Paul Keating trying to get Australians to fight Imperial Japan. Will the Australian Democrats do the pacifist thing they did with Operation Desert Storm? No doubt, Bob Brown's mob will ignore the Nazis and scream about how bad war is.

[lordroel]

May 17, 2019 14:02:32 GMT mullauna said:

Paul Keating trying to get Australians to fight Imperial Japan. Will the Australian Democrats do the pacifist thing they did with Operation Desert Storm? No doubt, Bob Brown's mob will ignore the Nazis and scream about how bad war is.

Doubt anybody will be a pacifist with Nazi Germany in its height of its power being brought to 1992.

[stevep]

   Guys


   A lot of the US is gone but a lot is left and it and its leaders will be very angry. Its not so much what the west does as how much of Germany gets vapourised by the Soviets.  The shock to the system, sudden threat to the Russian state and collapse of European power could also make it easier for a new reactionary Soviet regime to seize power and seek to maintain as much as they can of their former empire although anything beyond the 1992 Soviet borders is likely to be bitterly opposed by the Anglo-American powers.

   Since Japan is part of the Axis as well the Soviets might nuke them, but will at least seek to 'reclaim' the Kurils and S Sakhalin. However the Chinese communists are definitely not going to happy and while not as advanced as now they have nukes so expect Japan to suffer badly as well.  Unless the US moves quickly Taiwan is going to be red in this scenario as is all of Korea, although given that China has the majority of its main population and industrial regions reverting to 1942 version their going to suffer a hell of an economic hit.

  Rommel's going to get a nasty shock with 8th Army disappearing and as he marches on the delta his forces get smashed by the Egyptian army.  Ditto possibly the Japanese and Burma as they might find the Indian army far too tough for them.

  Much of the world is going to go into a tail-spin.  Europe is going to be a mess, even if Russia limits the nukes to German territory, while most of N Africa is back in the colonial period as is SE Asia, although nastily for it the colonial masters are imperial Japan.  Plus their very likely to find there's going to be no desire for the European colonial 'masters' to return, other than possibly 42 France in Algeria but that idea is likely to be stomped on by the US/UK. - Thinking about it a lot of French colonial Africa was still supporting Vichy at this point so that could also be affected, assuming that those areas are counted.

  Steve

[lordroel]

May 17, 2019 22:06:14 GMT stevep said:

   Guys


   A lot of the US is gone but a lot is left and it and its leaders will be very angry. Its not so much what the west does as how much of Germany gets vapourised by the Soviets.  The shock to the system, sudden threat to the Russian state and collapse of European power could also make it easier for a new reactionary Soviet regime to seize power and seek to maintain as much as they can of their former empire although anything beyond the 1992 Soviet borders is likely to be bitterly opposed by the Anglo-American powers.

   Since Japan is part of the Axis as well the Soviets might nuke them, but will at least seek to 'reclaim' the Kurils and S Sakhalin. However the Chinese communists are definitely not going to happy and while not as advanced as now they have nukes so expect Japan to suffer badly as well.  Unless the US moves quickly Taiwan is going to be red in this scenario as is all of Korea, although given that China has the majority of its main population and industrial regions reverting to 1942 version their going to suffer a hell of an economic hit.

  Rommel's going to get a nasty shock with 8th Army disappearing and as he marches on the delta his forces get smashed by the Egyptian army.  Ditto possibly the Japanese and Burma as they might find the Indian army far too tough for them.

  Much of the world is going to go into a tail-spin.  Europe is going to be a mess, even if Russia limits the nukes to German territory, while most of N Africa is back in the colonial period as is SE Asia, although nastily for it the colonial masters are imperial Japan.  Plus their very likely to find there's going to be no desire for the European colonial 'masters' to return, other than possibly 42 France in Algeria but that idea is likely to be stomped on by the US/UK. - Thinking about it a lot of French colonial Africa was still supporting Vichy at this point so that could also be affected, assuming that those areas are counted.

  Steve

You do not think president Yeltsin is up to a challenge to face Nazi Germany.

[stevep]

May 18, 2019 10:01:07 GMT lordroel said:

May 17, 2019 22:06:14 GMT stevep said:

   Guys


   A lot of the US is gone but a lot is left and it and its leaders will be very angry. Its not so much what the west does as how much of Germany gets vapourised by the Soviets.  The shock to the system, sudden threat to the Russian state and collapse of European power could also make it easier for a new reactionary Soviet regime to seize power and seek to maintain as much as they can of their former empire although anything beyond the 1992 Soviet borders is likely to be bitterly opposed by the Anglo-American powers.

   Since Japan is part of the Axis as well the Soviets might nuke them, but will at least seek to 'reclaim' the Kurils and S Sakhalin. However the Chinese communists are definitely not going to happy and while not as advanced as now they have nukes so expect Japan to suffer badly as well.  Unless the US moves quickly Taiwan is going to be red in this scenario as is all of Korea, although given that China has the majority of its main population and industrial regions reverting to 1942 version their going to suffer a hell of an economic hit.

  Rommel's going to get a nasty shock with 8th Army disappearing and as he marches on the delta his forces get smashed by the Egyptian army.  Ditto possibly the Japanese and Burma as they might find the Indian army far too tough for them.

  Much of the world is going to go into a tail-spin.  Europe is going to be a mess, even if Russia limits the nukes to German territory, while most of N Africa is back in the colonial period as is SE Asia, although nastily for it the colonial masters are imperial Japan.  Plus their very likely to find there's going to be no desire for the European colonial 'masters' to return, other than possibly 42 France in Algeria but that idea is likely to be stomped on by the US/UK. - Thinking about it a lot of French colonial Africa was still supporting Vichy at this point so that could also be affected, assuming that those areas are counted.

  Steve

You do not think president Yeltsin is up to a challenge to face Nazi Germany.

  Russia in 1992, although in some disorder and having lost much of its territory and military because of the ISOT, should still have the conventional forces to take out the Nazis, although it would take some time and losses.  They would probably lose Leningrad/Saint Petersburg as well since the besieging German forces will find the Russian defences and garrison having disappeared and the population unaware there is a war on.  Probably also Stalingrad/Volgograd as again its defenders have suddenly disappeared and other areas.  However the Russians have far more powerful if smaller forces and most of all they have nukes and in those circumstances I can't see them not using them.  One single missile from a Typhoon could devastate Berlin far more quickly and completely than all the OTL allied bombing. 

  The thing is it will be a huge shock to Russian society and also raise a lot of memories both of the war and of the 'threat' from the west.  Not to mention probably tension with the western powers - which will basically be UK, US, Canada and possibly Sweden/Iceland/Spain/Portugal - over what happens with the territories brought back.  As such there could be a desire for the 'security' of Soviet times and a strong military and purely Russian approach to their future, rather than the opening up to the west which because of the war it was done had disastrous social and economic consequences.  As such even with the Nazis probably being quickly and decisively defeated you could see another coup attempt which might well succeed.

  I assume that since it refers to Axis controlled territory they have lost all their naval forces, other than those in harbour at that time.  Which should ease problems in the Atlantic, although likely to be some nasty shocks.  Could also means there are some allied bombers, probably from Bomber Command if the ISOT happened at midnight who are going to be very surprised when they get back to Britain, especially since they could struggle to find a place to land and will cause confusion and panic in air traffic control among other places.

[lordroel]

May 18, 2019 10:31:22 GMT stevep said:

May 18, 2019 10:01:07 GMT lordroel said:

You do not think president Yeltsin is up to a challenge to face Nazi Germany.

  Russia in 1992, although in some disorder and having lost much of its territory and military because of the ISOT, should still have the conventional forces to take out the Nazis, although it would take some time and losses.  They would probably lose Leningrad/Saint Petersburg as well since the besieging German forces will find the Russian defences and garrison having disappeared and the population unaware there is a war on.  Probably also Stalingrad/Volgograd as again its defenders have suddenly disappeared and other areas.  However the Russians have far more powerful if smaller forces and most of all they have nukes and in those circumstances I can't see them not using them.  One single missile from a Typhoon could devastate Berlin far more quickly and completely than all the OTL allied bombing. 

  The thing is it will be a huge shock to Russian society and also raise a lot of memories both of the war and of the 'threat' from the west.  Not to mention probably tension with the western powers - which will basically be UK, US, Canada and possibly Sweden/Iceland/Spain/Portugal - over what happens with the territories brought back.  As such there could be a desire for the 'security' of Soviet times and a strong military and purely Russian approach to their future, rather than the opening up to the west which because of the war it was done had disastrous social and economic consequences.  As such even with the Nazis probably being quickly and decisively defeated you could see another coup attempt which might well succeed.

  I assume that since it refers to Axis controlled territory they have lost all their naval forces, other than those in harbour at that time.  Which should ease problems in the Atlantic, although likely to be some nasty shocks.  Could also means there are some allied bombers, probably from Bomber Command if the ISOT happened at midnight who are going to be very surprised when they get back to Britain, especially since they could struggle to find a place to land and will cause confusion and panic in air traffic control among other places.

Russia of 1992 is width open i think, it lost all of its Baltic and Black Sea fleets and i guess major units that where stationed at the border.

[stevep]

May 18, 2019 10:49:46 GMT lordroel said:

May 18, 2019 10:31:22 GMT stevep said:

  Russia in 1992, although in some disorder and having lost much of its territory and military because of the ISOT, should still have the conventional forces to take out the Nazis, although it would take some time and losses.  They would probably lose Leningrad/Saint Petersburg as well since the besieging German forces will find the Russian defences and garrison having disappeared and the population unaware there is a war on.  Probably also Stalingrad/Volgograd as again its defenders have suddenly disappeared and other areas.  However the Russians have far more powerful if smaller forces and most of all they have nukes and in those circumstances I can't see them not using them.  One single missile from a Typhoon could devastate Berlin far more quickly and completely than all the OTL allied bombing. 

  The thing is it will be a huge shock to Russian society and also raise a lot of memories both of the war and of the 'threat' from the west.  Not to mention probably tension with the western powers - which will basically be UK, US, Canada and possibly Sweden/Iceland/Spain/Portugal - over what happens with the territories brought back.  As such there could be a desire for the 'security' of Soviet times and a strong military and purely Russian approach to their future, rather than the opening up to the west which because of the war it was done had disastrous social and economic consequences.  As such even with the Nazis probably being quickly and decisively defeated you could see another coup attempt which might well succeed.

  I assume that since it refers to Axis controlled territory they have lost all their naval forces, other than those in harbour at that time.  Which should ease problems in the Atlantic, although likely to be some nasty shocks.  Could also means there are some allied bombers, probably from Bomber Command if the ISOT happened at midnight who are going to be very surprised when they get back to Britain, especially since they could struggle to find a place to land and will cause confusion and panic in air traffic control among other places.

Russia of 1992 is width open i think, it lost all of its Baltic and Black Sea fleets and i guess major units that where stationed at the border.

  Very true and it will be a problem.  However units in the deep interior are going to be unaffected, although there will be a big shock at the 'invasion'.  Definitely will be some forces around Moscow for instance and in the Far East but not sure what would be elsewhere.  This is another reason why, once they realise what has happened that Berlin and probably other places in Germany are going to disappear. 

[SpaceOrbisHistory]

May 17, 2019 12:28:17 GMT mullauna said:

The territory controlled by the Axis Powers and their clients and puppets at noon GMT on July 1st, 1942 arrives at noon GMT on July 1st. 1992.

The 1992 USA is in the middle of an election campaign... how do Bush and Clinton react?

The UK?

I would think that Bush wins due to the first gulf war being such a clear win under him. In such a scenario people would want a known leader over a new face in power. So I would say George H.W. Bush gets four more years in the white house and the Nazis get flatted by our technological superiority. We are talking about a world war 2 era foe facing off with a 1990s era world. Low yield nuclear missiles would likely fly once we know what has happened and who is now alive once again. 

If they last a year I would be surprised.  

[belushitd]

It would be interesting to know exactly where the russians keep their nukes, both missiles and bombs. It would not surprise me if they decided that they were not going to put up with the potential of losing a million infantrymen to push the Nazis out of Russia and just started dropping nukes on Germany.

A side note - The 1942 territory of the axis powers is ISOTed to 1992. This includes the people, the equipment, the buildings, the geology, everything? This replaces everything that was already there, so the Nazis wouldn't take possession of the French nuclear arsenal, right?

It would certainly be surprising for the 1992 merchant fleet to suddenly be attacked by U boats with unguided torpedoes.

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Aug 5, 2021 19:25:35 GMT belushitd said:

A side note - The 1942 territory of the axis powers is ISOTed to 1992. This includes the people, the equipment, the buildings, the geology, everything? This replaces everything that was already there, so the Nazis wouldn't take possession of the French nuclear arsenal, right?

Belushi TD

Depends, is Vichy France also brought along, if not, the French land base nuclear arsenal (S3 IRBMs) at the Plateau d'Albion and the 18 silo-based S2 medium-range ballistic missiles at Vaucluse, southern France might be under the 1992 French control.