James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Jan 23, 2020 20:13:05 GMT
Chekov's gun, (the mole), has been brought out. It will be interesting to see what happens if/when they are uncovered. I intend to make use of the spy/mole too, as should be! James- congrats on another great update. I’ve got a great name for your traitor- US Army Warrant Officer James Hall is assigned to US Army intelligence in Europe at the time, having become a warrant officer to increase his access to classified information which he passed to the Russians. The Conrad spy ring is also active, passing GDP plans and other other information to the Hungarians. Thank you. Good name and thanks for reminding me about the Szabo-Conrad connection: with the latter, I think that would have been responsible for the massive defeat I gave the US VII Corps in Bavaria. However, I'm thinking someone higher up than Hall. There isn't a Real Life figure I can base it on because there isn't a known one.
Damn that makes things more expensive but hopefully most of the troops get away. However as you say there's also the very dangerous situation in Belgium. Plus of course the nuclear genie is now loose.
Postnikov as a more conservative general may be an advantage to the allies if they can get defensive positions that they can hold - providing the Soviets don't escalate to widespread tactical nuke use to break them which would seem likely I fear - then the Soviets could lose a lot of strength trying to break them.
Hopefully the allies will identify the traitor(s) but possibly leaking false information would be the best approach in the near term.
Steve
Belgium is almost all lost now and that is not good news at all for many reasons, including the nuke threat issue with the Soviets almost on the French border. The new C-in-C West has inherited all of Ogarkov's success. He won't be taking risks but there isn't much more he can do now apart from complete the last of the mission of taking all of West Germany and the Low Countries. Tac nuke usage would change everything! Good, cunning idea there with the traitor working for the GRU. I'm still planning how to make that all work and this I like... if they find him. |
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Jan 23, 2020 20:15:18 GMT
180 – Taking in the sights of Ostend
Soviet tanks and infantry carriers rolled into Ostend. The Belgian city by the sea came under foreign occupation with their arrival. The mayor, who’d chosen to stay behind when other local officials had fled, had declared Ostend an ‘open city’. He wanted to spare it from being fought over. There was no fighting when the T-80s and BTR-70s came in to take the sights but that wasn’t because of his declaration. There was instead no one to defend Ostend: neither Belgium nor its NATO allies had the troops available. A regiment of the 45th Guards Motor Rifle Division went through Ostend… well, what was left of the regiment anyway. American air attacks, especially the bomb runs made by their B-52s, had decimated much of the 45th Guards Division late yesterday. That regiment was no more than a battalion after those and earlier fighting against the US Army too. Still, they were still combat capable as a unit and Ostend was taken. Onto the beach the tanks went. The waves were those of the North Sea though the Straits of Dover were just down the road. In defiance of that open city policy, there was soon gunfire and explosions. The Soviets were attacked with their infantry carriers and the riflemen emerging from them the targets. Belgian volunteers who were part of the long established stay behind network – the infamous Gladio set-up – used submachine guns and hand grenades to make their opening moves. In recent years, Belgian criminals had made much use of stocks of weapons held ready for the day when Belgian was occupied for a third time this century with right-wing extremists also getting their hands on what they could too. The smart ones were staying out of this, keeping their heads down until the Soviets got comfortable, but the foolishly brave decided to strike out at the first sign of the enemy. Those ambushes were met with a strong reaction. These were professional soldiers with firepower on-call and they had no regard for collateral damage. What few volunteers survived to be captured were shot as illegal combatants whether they had their hands up or not. That Saturday afternoon when Ostend was taken, so too were other ports along the coastline. The bombed-out ruins of Zeebrugge also came under occupation along with the Dutch-owned Breskens in Zeelandic Flanders. Nieuwpoort was for now left alone though. Around there, so close to the French border, there was no forward advance made. It was in that direction which those who had failed to stop elements of the Eleventh Guards Army reaching the coast by way of Bruges had fled towards.
The US Army’s 1st Cavalry Division was forty per cent (give or take) combat-effective. They fought today between Ghent and the sea before making a withdrawal in the direction of Nieuwpoort, though continuing further than there and falling back all the way into France. Almost a third of the division which had gone to war here in Belgium was trapped against the Scheldt Estuary not far from Breskens on Dutch territory after being isolated yesterday. Those who had gotten away were regulars and national guardsmen with the latter from Mississippi and them having had a terrible war. With a figure of only forty per cent strength, that should have been enough to see the 1st Cavalry completely withdrawn from the frontlines and sent far into the rear to receive many replacements as well as refit. That wasn’t the case. The division moved into defensive positions spread from Dunkirk and inwards through the French countryside. They had broken contact while falling back, relying on air support and Belgian reservists fighting as rear-guards to stop the 1st Guards Motor Rifle Division from chasing them. That opposing formation was battered far more than the Americans were. The Soviets with that Eleventh Guards Army unit would be lucky to be rated twenty per cent effective from what they started the war with. It wasn’t necessarily them that the Americans ran from though. Enemy tank divisions, in much better shape, were crossing into West Flanders. There were two of them – Third Shock Army units, those who had conquered the Netherlands several days ago – and in a fight with them in the state it was in, plus out on its own here, there quickly would have been nothing left of the 1st Cavalry. Upon entering France, they linked up with allied troops and would stand a chance of fighting off a full attack.
There were many troops arriving in Northern France, coming from the armies of several nations. The French had some reservists there as well as troops who’d flown home from across the globe: men from the Caribbean, the Indian Ocean (Réunion), the Pacific and West Africa. They were all lightly armed too, making their air transport easier than if they had been heavily equipped. British Gurkhas from the Far East – Brunei and Hong Kong – joined up with an infantry battalion which had travelled up from Gibraltar… after the UK Government had finally convinced itself that their Spanish allies wouldn’t seize the opportunity to take that colony. There were French-speaking Canadian reservists who’s arrived from a mixture of Primary Reserve units formed into battalion-groups. The Americans had men in Northern France too, near to the Belgian frontier. Flown from Iraq and Kuwait in recent days had been the 82nd Airborne Division. CENTCOM hadn’t been happy to see them go but go they had. American air-lift capacity was quite something and to France they had come; they were joined to by national guardsmen from anti-tank units who were here to provide support for them. The Americans needed whatever they could – even those men from Georgia and Oklahoma with TOW missiles fitted to HMMWVs – because they, like their allies gathered on the southern side of the border, were all light troops. There wasn’t a heavy unit anywhere near the frontier that none of these countries nor anyone else could provide at this time. Hundreds upon hundreds of tanks, to say nothing of their infantry fighting vehicles, were with the two Soviet field armies over in Belgium. But standing in their way ahead of what everyone was convinced was soon to be an invasion of France, there almost weren’t any at all. Only the Americans with their 1st Cavalry had tanks…maybe one hundred odd left at most.
Heavy NATO forces were heading towards Northern France. France was withdrawing its II Corps out of Baden-Württemberg and they had tanks and other armoured vehicles with them. The Spanish were still in the process of sending their expeditionary force northwards but a large part of that was now in France (over the Pyrenees) and they had tanks with them. There were too those British units on their way including those who’d won the fight for London with some armour among them. In addition, setting sail last night were those convoys carrying heavy national guard divisions as well as all those tanks and armoured vehicles taken from the garrisons from where REFORGER troops had flown away from several days beforehand. The Americans would take longer than everyone else but, once fully assembled, would be able to provide a strong and capable force when currently equipment-less troops met up with what was in those convoys. Therefore, NATO forces on the border need to hold out with what they could until they were reinforced. Trenches were dug and so too were fighting positions. Anti-tank ditches were formed and mines laid. There was a lot of air power ready to support the light troops on the ground. They all waited for that invasion of France to begin…
…and it was one that no matter how feared, wasn’t going to materialise.
There was still fighting taking place inside Belgium. Neither Charleroi nor Mons had been entered by the Soviet forces in the south of the country. Those who had accidently gone over the border yesterday had quickly returned and joined with the fighting near to each urban area. French forces north of Charleroi had been hit with a tank attack by the 4th Guards Tank Division and decimated. Only a few survivors were left of the 27th Alpine Division and 127th Reserve Brigade when the famous Kantemir Division struck. French armour had consisted of ERC-90 armoured cars supporting dismounted missile teams. They had met with T-64s covered by Hind attack helicopters. The last of the French had fallen back closer to their own country – staying just inside Belgium though – while in the areas around Charleroi and Mons there were Belgians fighting for their country. The Hainaut & Namur Reserve Regiments were lightly equipped though joined by volunteers. They harassed Soviet forces ahead of them who were no longer advancing. The morale among such defenders of Belgium was very high: they’d stopped the invaders cold! That wasn’t the case at all because it was only firm instructions which kept the Kantemir Division and what was left of the 1st Tank Division too where they were. When the Belgians really made an effort, massed firepower was used to blast them at distance yet every request to move forward was refused completely. The left wing of the Eleventh Guards Army had an arriving tank division coming down from the Third Shock Army slotting in behind them. There was supposed to be a reorganisation of the two armies and men below general officer rank all believed that they would soon be on the advance again, going into France. Why else would the reinforcement and better command responsibility be done? No one told them that that wasn’t happening though.
Over to the east, in the southern reaches of the Ardennes, plus into Luxembourg too, there were more Belgians fighting. Almost the entire professional Belgian Army was still stuck in West Germany – or caught in a smaller trapped pocket in Dutch Limburg – with the nation’s well-equipped reservists in large formations with them. However, Belgium had kept its Provincial Regiments at home. Part of the Liège Regiment was in the Ardennes along with the Luxembourg Regiment too (Belgium had a province called Luxembourg next to – you guessed it – the country of Luxembourg). Soviet tanks with their Twenty–Eighth Army had gone off into West Germany via the back door and pushed away those on their right flank. The Belgians here fought regardless of being ignored and also initially vastly outclassed. Now the combat units were gone, rear area troops protected the supply lines of those who’d come through the Ardennes via the main roads and ignored everywhere else. Ambushes were made and air strikes were guided in. When caught by Soviet forces, Belgian reservists here were generally taken prisoner rather than being shot out of hand due to their wearing of uniforms yet there were still many instances where the rules of war were ignored and prisoners killed. In addition to the Belgians trapped in the Ruhr Pocket, Luxembourg’s tiny army had sent the majority of its soldiers off to the war in West Germany. There were a few who remained behind and, joined by mobilised reservists, they fought in the northern half of their country where the Ardennes were too. Soviet forces were generally not bothering with them nor their country apart from distant attacks with missiles or aircraft. That truth was becoming a bit of myth among those on the frontlines here: they told themselves that their fighting élan was what was allowing them to survive and carry on their resistance. It would have been a nice if that was true. For the Soviets, it was a matter of priorities and strategic complications. Those were what counted, not a few men hiding among the trees with an old rifle.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 23, 2020 20:26:42 GMT
180 – Taking in the sights of OstendSoviet tanks and infantry carriers rolled into Ostend. The Belgian city by the sea came under foreign occupation with their arrival. The mayor, who’d chosen to stay behind when other local officials had fled, had declared Ostend an ‘open city’. He wanted to spare it from being fought over. There was no fighting when the T-80s and BTR-70s came in to take the sights but that wasn’t because of his declaration. There was instead no one to defend Ostend: neither Belgium nor its NATO allies had the troops available. A regiment of the 45th Guards Motor Rifle Division went through Ostend… well, what was left of the regiment anyway. American air attacks, especially the bomb runs made by their B-52s, had decimated much of the 45th Guards Division late yesterday. That regiment was no more than a battalion after those and earlier fighting against the US Army too. Still, they were still combat capable as a unit and Ostend was taken. Onto the beach the tanks went. The waves were those of the North Sea though the Straits of Dover were just down the road. In defiance of that open city policy, there was soon gunfire and explosions. The Soviets were attacked with their infantry carriers and the riflemen emerging from them the targets. Belgian volunteers who were part of the long established stay behind network – the infamous Gladio set-up – used submachine guns and hand grenades to make their opening moves. In recent years, Belgian criminals had made much use of stocks of weapons held ready for the day when Belgian was occupied for a third time this century with right-wing extremists also getting their hands on what they could too. The smart ones were staying out of this, keeping their heads down until the Soviets got comfortable, but the foolishly brave decided to strike out at the first sign of the enemy. Those ambushes were met with a strong reaction. These were professional soldiers with firepower on-call and they had no regard for collateral damage. What few volunteers survived to be captured were shot as illegal combatants whether they had their hands up or not. That Saturday afternoon when Ostend was taken, so too were other ports along the coastline. The bombed-out ruins of Zeebrugge also came under occupation along with the Dutch-owned Breskens in Zeelandic Flanders. Nieuwpoort was for now left alone though. Around there, so close to the French border, there was no forward advance made. It was in that direction which those who had failed to stop elements of the Eleventh Guards Army reaching the coast by way of Bruges had fled towards. The US Army’s 1st Cavalry Division was forty per cent (give or take) combat-effective. They fought today between Ghent and the sea before making a withdrawal in the direction of Nieuwpoort, though continuing further than there and falling back all the way into France. Almost a third of the division which had gone to war here in Belgium was trapped against the Scheldt Estuary not far from Breskens on Dutch territory after being isolated yesterday. Those who had gotten away were regulars and national guardsmen with the latter from Mississippi and them having had a terrible war. With a figure of only forty per cent strength, that should have been enough to see the 1st Cavalry completely withdrawn from the frontlines and sent far into the rear to receive many replacements as well as refit. That wasn’t the case. The division moved into defensive positions spread from Dunkirk and inwards through the French countryside. They had broken contact while falling back, relying on air support and Belgian reservists fighting as rear-guards to stop the 1st Guards Motor Rifle Division from chasing them. That opposing formation was battered far more than the Americans were. The Soviets with that Eleventh Guards Army unit would be lucky to be rated twenty per cent effective from what they started the war with. It wasn’t necessarily them that the Americans ran from though. Enemy tank divisions, in much better shape, were crossing into West Flanders. There were two of them – Third Shock Army units, those who had conquered the Netherlands several days ago – and in a fight with them in the state it was in, plus out on its own here, there quickly would have been nothing left of the 1st Cavalry. Upon entering France, they linked up with allied troops and would stand a chance of fighting off a full attack. There were many troops arriving in Northern France, coming from the armies of several nations. The French had some reservists there as well as troops who’d flown home from across the globe: men from the Caribbean, the Indian Ocean (Réunion), the Pacific and West Africa. They were all lightly armed too, making their air transport easier than if they had been heavily equipped. British Gurkhas from the Far East – Brunei and Hong Kong – joined up with an infantry battalion which had travelled up from Gibraltar… after the UK Government had finally convinced itself that their Spanish allies wouldn’t seize the opportunity to take that colony. There were French-speaking Canadian reservists who’s arrived from a mixture of Primary Reserve units formed into battalion-groups. The Americans had men in Northern France too, near to the Belgian frontier. Flown from Iraq and Kuwait in recent days had been the 82nd Airborne Division. CENTCOM hadn’t been happy to see them go but go they had. American air-lift capacity was quite something and to France they had come; they were joined to by national guardsmen from anti-tank units who were here to provide support for them. The Americans needed whatever they could – even those men from Georgia and Oklahoma with TOW missiles fitted to HMMWVs – because they, like their allies gathered on the southern side of the border, were all light troops. There wasn’t a heavy unit anywhere near the frontier that none of these countries nor anyone else could provide at this time. Hundreds upon hundreds of tanks, to say nothing of their infantry fighting vehicles, were with the two Soviet field armies over in Belgium. But standing in their way ahead of what everyone was convinced was soon to be an invasion of France, there almost weren’t any at all. Only the Americans with their 1st Cavalry had tanks…maybe one hundred odd left at most. Heavy NATO forces were heading towards Northern France. France was withdrawing its II Corps out of Baden-Württemberg and they had tanks and other armoured vehicles with them. The Spanish were still in the process of sending their expeditionary force northwards but a large part of that was now in France (over the Pyrenees) and they had tanks with them. There were too those British units on their way including those who’d won the fight for London with some armour among them. In addition, setting sail last night were those convoys carrying heavy national guard divisions as well as all those tanks and armoured vehicles taken from the garrisons from where REFORGER troops had flown away from several days beforehand. The Americans would take longer than everyone else but, once fully assembled, would be able to provide a strong and capable force when currently equipment-less troops met up with what was in those convoys. Therefore, NATO forces on the border need to hold out with what they could until they were reinforced. Trenches were dug and so too were fighting positions. Anti-tank ditches were formed and mines laid. There was a lot of air power ready to support the light troops on the ground. They all waited for that invasion of France to begin… …and it was one that no matter how feared, wasn’t going to materialise. There was still fighting taking place inside Belgium. Neither Charleroi nor Mons had been entered by the Soviet forces in the south of the country. Those who had accidently gone over the border yesterday had quickly returned and joined with the fighting near to each urban area. French forces north of Charleroi had been hit with a tank attack by the 4th Guards Tank Division and decimated. Only a few survivors were left of the 27th Alpine Division and 127th Reserve Brigade when the famous Kantemir Division struck. French armour had consisted of ERC-90 armoured cars supporting dismounted missile teams. They had met with T-64s covered by Hind attack helicopters. The last of the French had fallen back closer to their own country – staying just inside Belgium though – while in the areas around Charleroi and Mons there were Belgians fighting for their country. The Hainaut & Namur Reserve Regiments were lightly equipped though joined by volunteers. They harassed Soviet forces ahead of them who were no longer advancing. The morale among such defenders of Belgium was very high: they’d stopped the invaders cold! That wasn’t the case at all because it was only firm instructions which kept the Kantemir Division and what was left of the 1st Tank Division too where they were. When the Belgians really made an effort, massed firepower was used to blast them at distance yet every request to move forward was refused completely. The left wing of the Eleventh Guards Army had an arriving tank division coming down from the Third Shock Army slotting in behind them. There was supposed to be a reorganisation of the two armies and men below general officer rank all believed that they would soon be on the advance again, going into France. Why else would the reinforcement and better command responsibility be done? No one told them that that wasn’t happening though. Over to the east, in the southern reaches of the Ardennes, plus into Luxembourg too, there were more Belgians fighting. Almost the entire professional Belgian Army was still stuck in West Germany – or caught in a smaller trapped pocket in Dutch Limburg – with the nation’s well-equipped reservists in large formations with them. However, Belgium had kept its Provincial Regiments at home. Part of the Liège Regiment was in the Ardennes along with the Luxembourg Regiment too (Belgium had a province called Luxembourg next to – you guessed it – the country of Luxembourg). Soviet tanks with their Twenty–Eighth Army had gone off into West Germany via the back door and pushed away those on their right flank. The Belgians here fought regardless of being ignored and also initially vastly outclassed. Now the combat units were gone, rear area troops protected the supply lines of those who’d come through the Ardennes via the main roads and ignored everywhere else. Ambushes were made and air strikes were guided in. When caught by Soviet forces, Belgian reservists here were generally taken prisoner rather than being shot out of hand due to their wearing of uniforms yet there were still many instances where the rules of war were ignored and prisoners killed. In addition to the Belgians trapped in the Ruhr Pocket, Luxembourg’s tiny army had sent the majority of its soldiers off to the war in West Germany. There were a few who remained behind and, joined by mobilised reservists, they fought in the northern half of their country where the Ardennes were too. Soviet forces were generally not bothering with them nor their country apart from distant attacks with missiles or aircraft. That truth was becoming a bit of myth among those on the frontlines here: they told themselves that their fighting élan was what was allowing them to survive and carry on their resistance. It would have been a nice if that was true. For the Soviets, it was a matter of priorities and strategic complications. Those were what counted, not a few men hiding among the trees with an old rifle. First, another good update as always James G. Second, are the Soviets in control of Koksijde Air Base, wich is near the city of Ostend. |
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Jan 23, 2020 20:39:39 GMT
180 – Taking in the sights of OstendSoviet tanks and infantry carriers rolled into Ostend. The Belgian city by the sea came under foreign occupation with their arrival. The mayor, who’d chosen to stay behind when other local officials had fled, had declared Ostend an ‘open city’. He wanted to spare it from being fought over. There was no fighting when the T-80s and BTR-70s came in to take the sights but that wasn’t because of his declaration. There was instead no one to defend Ostend: neither Belgium nor its NATO allies had the troops available. A regiment of the 45th Guards Motor Rifle Division went through Ostend… well, what was left of the regiment anyway. American air attacks, especially the bomb runs made by their B-52s, had decimated much of the 45th Guards Division late yesterday. That regiment was no more than a battalion after those and earlier fighting against the US Army too. Still, they were still combat capable as a unit and Ostend was taken. Onto the beach the tanks went. The waves were those of the North Sea though the Straits of Dover were just down the road. In defiance of that open city policy, there was soon gunfire and explosions. The Soviets were attacked with their infantry carriers and the riflemen emerging from them the targets. Belgian volunteers who were part of the long established stay behind network – the infamous Gladio set-up – used submachine guns and hand grenades to make their opening moves. In recent years, Belgian criminals had made much use of stocks of weapons held ready for the day when Belgian was occupied for a third time this century with right-wing extremists also getting their hands on what they could too. The smart ones were staying out of this, keeping their heads down until the Soviets got comfortable, but the foolishly brave decided to strike out at the first sign of the enemy. Those ambushes were met with a strong reaction. These were professional soldiers with firepower on-call and they had no regard for collateral damage. What few volunteers survived to be captured were shot as illegal combatants whether they had their hands up or not. That Saturday afternoon when Ostend was taken, so too were other ports along the coastline. The bombed-out ruins of Zeebrugge also came under occupation along with the Dutch-owned Breskens in Zeelandic Flanders. Nieuwpoort was for now left alone though. Around there, so close to the French border, there was no forward advance made. It was in that direction which those who had failed to stop elements of the Eleventh Guards Army reaching the coast by way of Bruges had fled towards. The US Army’s 1st Cavalry Division was forty per cent (give or take) combat-effective. They fought today between Ghent and the sea before making a withdrawal in the direction of Nieuwpoort, though continuing further than there and falling back all the way into France. Almost a third of the division which had gone to war here in Belgium was trapped against the Scheldt Estuary not far from Breskens on Dutch territory after being isolated yesterday. Those who had gotten away were regulars and national guardsmen with the latter from Mississippi and them having had a terrible war. With a figure of only forty per cent strength, that should have been enough to see the 1st Cavalry completely withdrawn from the frontlines and sent far into the rear to receive many replacements as well as refit. That wasn’t the case. The division moved into defensive positions spread from Dunkirk and inwards through the French countryside. They had broken contact while falling back, relying on air support and Belgian reservists fighting as rear-guards to stop the 1st Guards Motor Rifle Division from chasing them. That opposing formation was battered far more than the Americans were. The Soviets with that Eleventh Guards Army unit would be lucky to be rated twenty per cent effective from what they started the war with. It wasn’t necessarily them that the Americans ran from though. Enemy tank divisions, in much better shape, were crossing into West Flanders. There were two of them – Third Shock Army units, those who had conquered the Netherlands several days ago – and in a fight with them in the state it was in, plus out on its own here, there quickly would have been nothing left of the 1st Cavalry. Upon entering France, they linked up with allied troops and would stand a chance of fighting off a full attack. There were many troops arriving in Northern France, coming from the armies of several nations. The French had some reservists there as well as troops who’d flown home from across the globe: men from the Caribbean, the Indian Ocean (Réunion), the Pacific and West Africa. They were all lightly armed too, making their air transport easier than if they had been heavily equipped. British Gurkhas from the Far East – Brunei and Hong Kong – joined up with an infantry battalion which had travelled up from Gibraltar… after the UK Government had finally convinced itself that their Spanish allies wouldn’t seize the opportunity to take that colony. There were French-speaking Canadian reservists who’s arrived from a mixture of Primary Reserve units formed into battalion-groups. The Americans had men in Northern France too, near to the Belgian frontier. Flown from Iraq and Kuwait in recent days had been the 82nd Airborne Division. CENTCOM hadn’t been happy to see them go but go they had. American air-lift capacity was quite something and to France they had come; they were joined to by national guardsmen from anti-tank units who were here to provide support for them. The Americans needed whatever they could – even those men from Georgia and Oklahoma with TOW missiles fitted to HMMWVs – because they, like their allies gathered on the southern side of the border, were all light troops. There wasn’t a heavy unit anywhere near the frontier that none of these countries nor anyone else could provide at this time. Hundreds upon hundreds of tanks, to say nothing of their infantry fighting vehicles, were with the two Soviet field armies over in Belgium. But standing in their way ahead of what everyone was convinced was soon to be an invasion of France, there almost weren’t any at all. Only the Americans with their 1st Cavalry had tanks…maybe one hundred odd left at most. Heavy NATO forces were heading towards Northern France. France was withdrawing its II Corps out of Baden-Württemberg and they had tanks and other armoured vehicles with them. The Spanish were still in the process of sending their expeditionary force northwards but a large part of that was now in France (over the Pyrenees) and they had tanks with them. There were too those British units on their way including those who’d won the fight for London with some armour among them. In addition, setting sail last night were those convoys carrying heavy national guard divisions as well as all those tanks and armoured vehicles taken from the garrisons from where REFORGER troops had flown away from several days beforehand. The Americans would take longer than everyone else but, once fully assembled, would be able to provide a strong and capable force when currently equipment-less troops met up with what was in those convoys. Therefore, NATO forces on the border need to hold out with what they could until they were reinforced. Trenches were dug and so too were fighting positions. Anti-tank ditches were formed and mines laid. There was a lot of air power ready to support the light troops on the ground. They all waited for that invasion of France to begin… …and it was one that no matter how feared, wasn’t going to materialise. There was still fighting taking place inside Belgium. Neither Charleroi nor Mons had been entered by the Soviet forces in the south of the country. Those who had accidently gone over the border yesterday had quickly returned and joined with the fighting near to each urban area. French forces north of Charleroi had been hit with a tank attack by the 4th Guards Tank Division and decimated. Only a few survivors were left of the 27th Alpine Division and 127th Reserve Brigade when the famous Kantemir Division struck. French armour had consisted of ERC-90 armoured cars supporting dismounted missile teams. They had met with T-64s covered by Hind attack helicopters. The last of the French had fallen back closer to their own country – staying just inside Belgium though – while in the areas around Charleroi and Mons there were Belgians fighting for their country. The Hainaut & Namur Reserve Regiments were lightly equipped though joined by volunteers. They harassed Soviet forces ahead of them who were no longer advancing. The morale among such defenders of Belgium was very high: they’d stopped the invaders cold! That wasn’t the case at all because it was only firm instructions which kept the Kantemir Division and what was left of the 1st Tank Division too where they were. When the Belgians really made an effort, massed firepower was used to blast them at distance yet every request to move forward was refused completely. The left wing of the Eleventh Guards Army had an arriving tank division coming down from the Third Shock Army slotting in behind them. There was supposed to be a reorganisation of the two armies and men below general officer rank all believed that they would soon be on the advance again, going into France. Why else would the reinforcement and better command responsibility be done? No one told them that that wasn’t happening though. Over to the east, in the southern reaches of the Ardennes, plus into Luxembourg too, there were more Belgians fighting. Almost the entire professional Belgian Army was still stuck in West Germany – or caught in a smaller trapped pocket in Dutch Limburg – with the nation’s well-equipped reservists in large formations with them. However, Belgium had kept its Provincial Regiments at home. Part of the Liège Regiment was in the Ardennes along with the Luxembourg Regiment too (Belgium had a province called Luxembourg next to – you guessed it – the country of Luxembourg). Soviet tanks with their Twenty–Eighth Army had gone off into West Germany via the back door and pushed away those on their right flank. The Belgians here fought regardless of being ignored and also initially vastly outclassed. Now the combat units were gone, rear area troops protected the supply lines of those who’d come through the Ardennes via the main roads and ignored everywhere else. Ambushes were made and air strikes were guided in. When caught by Soviet forces, Belgian reservists here were generally taken prisoner rather than being shot out of hand due to their wearing of uniforms yet there were still many instances where the rules of war were ignored and prisoners killed. In addition to the Belgians trapped in the Ruhr Pocket, Luxembourg’s tiny army had sent the majority of its soldiers off to the war in West Germany. There were a few who remained behind and, joined by mobilised reservists, they fought in the northern half of their country where the Ardennes were too. Soviet forces were generally not bothering with them nor their country apart from distant attacks with missiles or aircraft. That truth was becoming a bit of myth among those on the frontlines here: they told themselves that their fighting élan was what was allowing them to survive and carry on their resistance. It would have been a nice if that was true. For the Soviets, it was a matter of priorities and strategic complications. Those were what counted, not a few men hiding among the trees with an old rifle. First, another good update as always James G . Second, are the Soviets in control of Koksijde Air Base, wich is near the city of Ostend. Thank you. Long answer: Looking at it now - and I should have been aware of it before; poor research on my part! - that is very close to the French border, closer than Nieuwpoort. There is a Moscow-mandated exculsion zone along the French border for Soviet forces, one which commanders in the field are hopping mad about. That means that airbase isn't occupied. It might be still in use though wired for demolitions in case Soviet tanks do arrive and also targeted by missiles and aircraft. Soviet forces cannot advance forward close to France but can still open fire on Belgian targets. Short answer: nope, out of their hands! |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 23, 2020 20:44:42 GMT
Short answer: nope, out of their hands! But any Belgian forces that where based there, and looking at the wiki article related to Koksijde Air Base, it would be the 40th Squadron Heli operating 5x Sea King Mk.48 search and rescue helicopters, they would most likely have moved into France i think. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 23, 2020 22:52:02 GMT
Short answer: nope, out of their hands! But any Belgian forces that where based there, and looking at the wiki article related to Koksijde Air Base, it would be the 40th Squadron Heli operating 5x Sea King Mk.48 search and rescue helicopters, they would most likely have moved into France i think. Certainly they would have gone. As Belgium fell over the course of a few days, but before that as West Germany was lost, Koksijde would have been used by many different Belgian and NATO jets. Now it is abandoned but unused because it will be in artillery and MLRS range. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 24, 2020 20:11:08 GMT
181 – Nuclear third battle of the Atlantic
Nine hours after the American use of nuclear weapons at sea, the Soviets made their response. There were underwater detonations of Soviet ‘special weapons’ about a hundred miles off the North Carolina coast beneath the surface of the Atlantic Ocean. The warheads from a trio of torpedoes exploded at a shallow depth, not far down like those depth bombs in the Mediterranean. A launching submarine shot them towards a convoy of shipping before turning away and diving deep in anticipation of a nuclear counterattack. One torpedo had gone wide but the other two met their objectives. Explosions took place underneath the central mass of many ships. Keels were snapped on some vessels with others capsizing: three further ships were thoroughly destroyed with nothing left of them but atoms. Thirteen ship kills were achieved in this strike making it quite the success in military terms. However, the destruction caused here was done by a nuclear attack and that changed everything.
The convoy hit in this incident had come from the Cape Fear River estuary back in North Carolina. Dozens of ships, Military Sealift Command vessels along with civilian vessels, had been loading cargo for several days at Sunny Point. This was one of five Military Ocean Terminals (MOTs) across the United States which were specifically designed to allow for the loading of multiple ships at a time with equipment & stores for the armed forces. Convoys had loaded at the two California sites as well as at New Orleans on the Gulf of Mexico and in New Jersey at Bayonne on New York Bay. Rail and road links converged on the MOTs from garrisons and storage sites far afield. For example, there were M-1 tanks from Fort Riley in Kansas which had been loaded onto the Sunny Point ships at the same time as M-110 self-propelled artillery pieces from a nearby North Carolina Army National Guard unit. Alongside the MOT convoys, there were other convoys of ships laden with less with tanks and artillery but more so general cargo useful of the war – food and medicine – which were assembled at civilian ports too. As to this convoy out of Sunny Point, a US Navy escort had been assigned though there were a few warships from NATO allies also assigned: Canada, Italy and West Germany each had an escort vessel with all these ships. The destination for the convoy was Le Havre on the French side of the English Channel. Then those torpedoes came. A conventional attack was feared first and there were immediate moves underway by the escorts to locate and sink the submarine which had fired on them. No one was expecting the nuclear blasts though. Apart from those ships which would sink or that had been atomised, there was damage elsewhere to many vessels including several of the escorts too. A return to shore would have to be made by those which wouldn’t be able to continue with the Atlantic crossing. Those ships which came away unscathed and were able to carry on did so though. They were carrying the military war equipment that was needed for the fight in Europe: eastwards they went on sailing in the aftermath, ploughing through the now nuclear battlefield which was the North Atlantic.
Not that long afterwards, some distance away there was again the unleashing of nuclear firepower in this ocean. Escorting warships and helicopters with the battle group centred around the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy employed depth charges against what they believed was an attacking Soviet submarine. Multiple explosions far down below in the open water roughly halfway between the Azores and Bermuda took place. There was no detection in the aftermath of that submarine and it was believed that it had been eliminated. Alas, this was all a waste of effort. There hadn’t been a submarine there in the first place. Sonar readings had been misread, paranoia of a sneak attack had come and nuclear weapons use rules had been taken advantage of to break them out. The only victims of the blasts had been sea life, not the Soviet Navy’s submarine arm. The Kennedy carried onwards heading for the war raging on the European side of the ocean following the sending off of a report which stated with ‘high confidence’ that a submarine had been detected and subsequently sunk.
Nuclear use in these two instances livened up the Third Battle of the Atlantic. Throughout the previous six days of warfare between NATO and the Soviet Union, events which had been long speculated to occur during such a fight across this ocean hadn’t materialised. The Soviet Navy’s surface ships with the Northern Fleet hadn’t come out to fight but instead stayed in local waters. They had sent some submarines out yet not that many of their extensive force had gone on long voyages due to orders keeping the majority of them close to home too. Unlike the First and Second Battles of the Atlantic, the Soviets hadn’t followed the German example of flooding the ocean with submarines to try to attack shipping everywhere. Military sites located on Atlantic islands and also on continental shorelines where they were exposed to the ocean hadn’t been raided by naval commandos in-force. There were a large number of possible locations for such a thing to happen – Bermuda & Keflavik were places where an attack like that was feared – and there were troops deployed at them who didn’t meet Naval Infantry assailants. Naval Aviation missile-bombers hadn’t been making massed anti-carrier attacks either: no dance of the vampires had been had. Isolated, small-scale actions had taken place where Backfires had been seen but the numbers had been small. This was all really unlike what it had been thought the third fight this century over this ocean would be.
However, many of those imaginations had been among those not in uniform. Civilians and politicians in the West had believed what senior military officers hadn’t. The latter had looked at what evidence there was of Soviet naval strategy for wartime and taken heed of that. The Northern Fleet would certainly be keeping its ships close to home to defend their coast and strategic missile bastions. Their marines would be employed in Norway and, unless there was a real sense of adventurism employed, only a very fell commando raids using a force of company-size would be made. There certainly was a large naval air force capable of making massed attacks against US Navy carriers yet they would only do so if there were American carriers sent towards their waters. Yet, while that was something that the US Navy might have wanted to do, it hadn’t occurred so far in this conflict due to being caught unawares by how it all started: Kennedy was on the way to begin such a thing though. On the subject of submarines, naval thinkers in the West had had divided opinions on what exactly would be done by the Soviet Navy. There was an understanding that the Soviets wouldn’t make the same errors which the Germans had done in the last two world wars in trying to close the North Atlantic to shipping when all but two (Iceland and Luxembourg) NATO nations were naval powers with an alliance-wide strength in anti-submarine warfare. At the same time, for the Soviets to keep all of their submarines at home didn’t sound sensible either when they were capable weapons. No one could agree on what they would do apart from saying that it wouldn’t be like the first & second battles for the ocean but neither would a fully defensive effort be maintained. Something in the middle was projected with disputes on how that would go.
That submarine which hit the outbound convoy from Sunny Point MOT was one of several which the Northern Fleet had at sea. The Soviet Navy’s Atlantic submarine arm had kept many boats close to home yet others had gone out into the ocean. Those travelling the furthest were the most capable ones, the quietest ones too. They had them out in the North Atlantic with certain boats already seeing action. NATO had been prepared for them. It wasn’t just the US Navy who were positioned to fight off against many more submarines than which they faced but the navies of their allies as well. The Belgians, British, Canadians, Dutch, French, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish and West Germans all made their own contribution. Keeping the Atlantic open to shipping meant that the war in Europe could be fought. Soviet submarines out there had come into the sights of warships and naval aircraft from them as well as the Americans. There had been some sinkings of their at-sea submarines. At the same time, they had got their own licks in too. They had attacked warships out at sea while also waiting for an opportunity to go after a carrier – the British and French had them, just not the same number nor capability as the US Navy – before it came close to the Rodina.
A different mission for selected submarines had been to go close to the American coastline. They were on high-risk missions seeking valuable targets close to there. The carrier Kennedy had been missed coming out of Norfolk but a pair of well-armed missile-cruisers leaving Mayport had been torpedoed by another boat. Waiting for convoys to begin departing was another mission. Pre-war open source information told the Soviet Navy what they would need to know about such places as Sunny Point, Bayonne and New Orleans being departure points for ships carrying vital war equipment on its way to Europe. An attack by the boats themselves wasn’t to be made though. They were supposed to trail close by and report the positions of the convoys when they reached the eastern side of the ocean so there could come a massed air attack using cruise missiles fired from distance. It had taken the Americans longer than thought for them to get going with their convoys but these were pre-war standing operational plans which hadn’t taken into account that at the time a war started with the Soviet Union, the United States would have already made that big military commitment to the Middle East for the past few months thus causing this delay. One convoy left Bayonne first, followed by a trailing submarine, and then the convoy out of North Carolina was detected as leaving. Those shadowing had begun waiting for the upcoming opportunity in a few day’s time to guide-in an appearance by Backfires.
Flash orders had come to that Victor-class boat following the latter convoy. It was to launch an attack itself, using all of the nuclear-armed torpedoes aboard. There were three of them carried along with twenty-one further conventionally armed torpedoes and missiles (which were fired from the torpedo tubes). Each nuclear one was to be fired with immediate effect against the American ships with no explanation given. The order was followed unquestionably. The first use by Soviet forces of nuclear weapons in this war came. There were new orders sent out to other submarines in the North Atlantic too, ones near and far from the American coastline. They received instructions to fire upon high priority targets with nuclear torpedoes once they came into view. The Americans had struck first but the Soviet Navy intended to give it their all in return using sub-surface nuclear attacks in more than just this one instance. Like their opponents in the US Navy, admirals with the Soviet Navy had long wanted to get started doing this and jumped at the chance when finally given permission.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 24, 2020 20:42:44 GMT
Well that was an expensive own goal by the US. I was thinking of their CVN's but the allies have a hell of a lot more vulnerable targets for a war at sea than the Soviets, and not just in the Atlantic/European theatre either. Even the threat of further nuclear attacks, either by subs or a/c as they get closer makes the transfer of the vital convoys a lot more difficult and possibly impossible.
The question is what does the west do know. The Soviets have replied with multiple attacks against a far more vital target and more could well - and given Moscow's instructions will - be coming. Do they try and restrict the war to naval use, which will greatly handicap them and leave the Soviets in control of escalation again or try and step things up themselves? At this point Mitterrand may be beginning to consider he made a mistake rejecting that Soviet approach, extremely bad as that would have been.
Steve
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Post by redrobin65 on Jan 25, 2020 2:45:50 GMT
Oops....
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 25, 2020 18:42:07 GMT
Well that was an expensive own goal by the US. I was thinking of their CVN's but the allies have a hell of a lot more vulnerable targets for a war at sea than the Soviets, and not just in the Atlantic/European theatre either. Even the threat of further nuclear attacks, either by subs or a/c as they get closer makes the transfer of the vital convoys a lot more difficult and possibly impossible.
The question is what does the west do know. The Soviets have replied with multiple attacks against a far more vital target and more could well - and given Moscow's instructions will - be coming. Do they try and restrict the war to naval use, which will greatly handicap them and leave the Soviets in control of escalation again or try and step things up themselves? At this point Mitterrand may be beginning to consider he made a mistake rejecting that Soviet approach, extremely bad as that would have been.
Steve
It really was. So much for that 'controllable situation' promised! With the majority of the Soviet fleet near home, or those forward units in the Med. & Gulf already wiped out, NATO has a lot more to lose at sea. I'm still thinking on what the West does in response. It'll be hard to get out of this mess! Mitterrand dug himself a hole though I'd expect any French president to end up just as stuffed at he is now. There will be many more 'Ops' moments to come. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 25, 2020 18:43:23 GMT
Well that was an expensive own goal by the US. I was thinking of their CVN's but the allies have a hell of a lot more vulnerable targets for a war at sea than the Soviets, and not just in the Atlantic/European theatre either. Even the threat of further nuclear attacks, either by subs or a/c as they get closer makes the transfer of the vital convoys a lot more difficult and possibly impossible. The question is what does the west do know. The Soviets have replied with multiple attacks against a far more vital target and more could well - and given Moscow's instructions will - be coming. Do they try and restrict the war to naval use, which will greatly handicap them and leave the Soviets in control of escalation again or try and step things up themselves? At this point Mitterrand may be beginning to consider he made a mistake rejecting that Soviet approach, extremely bad as that would have been. Steve
It really was. So much for that 'controllable situation' promised! With the majority of the Soviet fleet near home, or those forward units in the Med. & Gulf already wiped out, NATO has a lot more to lose at sea. I'm still thinking on what the West does in response. It'll be hard to get out of this mess! Mitterrand dug himself a hole though I'd expect any French president to end up just as stuffed at he is now. There will be many more 'Ops' moments to come. You mean Oooops in a bomb ore more. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 25, 2020 18:43:51 GMT
182 – Maintaining dignity and honour
The NATO delegation crossed over the Rhine unarmed. Four officers went from Duisburg on the eastern bank to Moers on the western bank. In doing so, they left the Ruhr Pocket to enter Soviet-held territory. They were met where they were supposed to be by a waiting party of Soviet Army officers, as per the arrangements made. The Belgians, Britons & West Germans didn’t have weapons directly pointed at them but there was a company of riflemen in plain sight positioned ready to start shooting. This wasn’t anything other than an intimidation measure. The NATO officers, mid-level staffers, had come here in good faith and weren’t best pleased to have this done. There was nothing they could do about it though. The Soviets were the victors and in their victory they were writing the rules. The way was shown to a command vehicle and the two ranking visitors, a Belgian colonel and a British lieutenant-colonel, went inside while the others waited outside. They came here on behalf of their superiours to arrange for the terms of surrendering all those encircled through the Ruhr.
A one-star major-general was waiting inside the command version of this BTR-60 armoured personnel carrier. He was flanked by a couple of junior men with no sign of the KGB present but one man in GRU uniform was here. The general’s interpreter spoke very good English and a little Belgian. With him present, there was able to be a discussion to be had. The meeting had been requested by the NATO side with the request that these talks take place. However, the general – using his interpreter – made it clear at once that everything here was taking place at his direction. What those who’d come to see him had to say wasn’t important: only what he wanted was up for discussion. He told them that their commanders had set them here to make arrangements for the coming surrender of all of those surrounded over in the Ruhr and that was something that needed to happen quickly. There would be a ceasefire called and following that, Soviet and Warsaw Pact soldiers would move in to take their surrender. Treatment of prisoners would be in accordance with international obligations. To ensure that those conditions were met though, there would have to be complete cooperation with their captors. A timetable was issued. It wasn’t one which there could be any leeway given on leading to a delay: this all had to begin with haste. The general laid out the cooperation which he expected to be seen. There would be information supplied on where minefields were laid and what infrastructure was rigged for demolition. Where were Soviet POWs held in the Ruhr Pocket and the location too of traitors & defectors from Soviet forces also within was to be provided. Then there was the matter of ‘special weapons’: chemical and nuclear. They would need to be handed over straight away into Soviet custody. Between the ceasefire and the surrender, a short period of time so that those within the Ruhr Pocket could make sure that all those NATO forces contained inside would be made aware of the surrender, there was to be no destruction caused to weapons, equipment & supplies. Ahead of Soviet forces moving into the Ruhr, there was to be an effort made by NATO commanders to make sure that groups of those who wished to illegally carry on the fight after the surrender were unable to.
The Belgian colonel, a man specially chosen by the commander of the Belgian I Corps to see things done correctly, informed the Soviet general that there were no chemical nor nuclear weapons within the Ruhr Pocket. There weren’t any weapons of mass destruction with either the Belgian, British nor West German troops who were trapped on the wrong side of the Rhine. That GRU made interjected into this assurance that there was intelligence saying otherwise. The Soviets knew that such weapons were there. The Briton, an officer chosen for his (unneeded) Russian language skills as well as diplomatic experience, added to that promise from his fellow NATO officer that there were none present with either the British I Corps too. The general had his interpreter tell them both that should they be lying, there would be a punishment for that. Now was the time for honesty. Again, the two visitors to this mobile command post categorically stated that there were no weapons of mass destruction held within the Ruhr Pocket. As to the other conditions of the surrender, these were agreed to. The harsh treatment had been expected but it was better than the alternative: more death for no good reason. Those sent here had orders to see an end to the killing brought about whatever their own feelings on the matter might be. As the final act here, a time and place was set for where the three national commanders would met with the overall Soviet commander to officially make the surrender. After that, they left Moers soon enough, shadowed back to the Rhine by that company of riflemen, and then went to see their senior commanders. Within the hour, the fighting around the edges of the Ruhr Pocket came to an official halt with the last of it dying down not long afterwards as everyone on the NATO side got the word. Soon enough, into the Ruhr Pocket came Soviet and East German forces.
British and West German forces were on the northern and eastern side of the pocket. In terms of major combat units, the British I Corps contained the 6th Panzer Brigade as well as the 3rd Armoured Division. The Heer troops were the last of their destroyed parent division (the 2nd Panzergrenadier Division) and joined by some Territorialheer reservists as well. That British formation contained three brigades: the 4th & 33rd Armoured and the 6th Airmobile. The latter brigade had been reinforced in the first few days of war by TA battalions of the Parachute Regiment who’d fought as dismounted infantry like the regular units of the 6th Brigade. Tanks, armoured vehicles and self-propelled artillery had been plentiful through the British and West German units (with the exception of that British airmobile brigade) with them all being capable forces. They had fought well throughout the war though withdrawn back here and then seen others on their flanks fail allowing for them to be trapped. There were more than just combat units here. Both the British and West Germans had large numbers of non-combat troops with them. They’d been pressed into the fighting at times and also suffered from distant attacks where they couldn’t fight back. The support troops outnumbered the fighting men three-to-one.
As to the Belgian I Corps, there was the 1st Infantry & 16th Armoured Divisions. These were fully formed ahead of the encirclement which came. That was a credit to the Belgians that they managed to get those regulars on home soil along with well-equipped reservists into the field over in West Germany. Conversely, it was also a national tragedy: only small, lightly armed units had been left back in Belgium where they provided no more than a nuisance for those who overrun the country. The Belgians covered the south and west-facing sides of the Ruhr Pocket. They had retreated during the war though not as far as those British and West Germans they ended up encircled with had. Many non-combat troops were with them inside the pocket who had too be drawn into the fighting at times to hold onto the position where they had held onto. They were joined by West Germans in uniform who weren’t combat troops but had been providing – as they did for all NATO forces on in their country – Host Nation Support with transport, logistics, engineering and so on. There had been much talk among the Belgians that relief was coming for them from fellow NATO allies who would see them saved by means of an escape route held open. Enemy propaganda had been blasted at them telling them there was no hope though and, in addition to that, Soviet radio broadcasts as well as leafletting had told them that their homeland was now under occupation. The effect upon their morale upon that news about home had not been in any way good.
Soviet and East German troops with the Twentieth Army came forward at the agreed upon time. It was late evening and just about to get dark when the defending lines around the Ruhr Pocket became no longer filled with resistance but instead resignation of defeat. Columns of tanks and armoured vehicles rolled through the defenders. Gunfire wasn’t exchanged between them. Certain fast-moving columns pushed deep into the Ruhr but the main Twentieth Army presence was felt on the outskirts where NATO combat troops had clung so doggedly to their defensive positions. Those trapped here were laying down their weapons and raising their arms. Tens of thousands of soldiers were giving in. They were soon to be marched away from here and to find out how much truth could be found in those Soviet promises of good treatment for them.
Half a dozen helicopters approached the Ruhr town of Gelsenkirchen. Three of them landed but the other trio stayed airborne. The Hinds hovered low in the sky but the Hips were on the ground and out of them came Soviet military personnel. There were riflemen but also communications specialists, intelligence officers and the Twentieth Army’s commander. This lieutenant-general had earlier sent his deputy to Moers in the first contact with the NATO forces who wished to give up but he himself came to Gelsenkirchen to officially take their surrender. New in-charge, he was trying to restore the honour of the Twentieth Army… only a few days ago it had been the Twentieth Guards Army. That would come by victory being won, even in these circumstances. He was met by three other generals upon arrival: each on the senior man for the Belgians, British and West Germans. For those surrendering, in their defeat they were trying to maintain dignity and honour as befitted their rank and service. They turned out in their best uniforms and put a brave face on it all. This wasn’t an easy thing for them to do. They had no choice though. The soldiers under their command had plenty of bullets and even shells for artillery & tank guns, but they were out of air defence & anti-tank missiles. There was little vehicle fuel too. Furthermore, medical supplies were almost all exhausted while the casualties among their men continued to mount along with those inflicted upon civilians also caught in the Ruhr Pocket. With no hope of escape nor relief, they had decided that they had to end this.
The Soviet party came with a military media team. They set up several video cameras – Japanese equipment, not Soviet-built junk – and a satellite dish was assembled too so the footage could be broadcast out live as it happened. The cameras focused upon the surrendering NATO general officers and then the riflemen brought here by helicopter. Finally, attention turned to the Soviet Army general as he formally took their surrender. The fall of the Ruhr Pocket was to be shown to those who would watch far away and take heed of the message being sent out. That message? All-conquering Soviet military might.
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 25, 2020 18:44:44 GMT
It really was. So much for that 'controllable situation' promised! With the majority of the Soviet fleet near home, or those forward units in the Med. & Gulf already wiped out, NATO has a lot more to lose at sea. I'm still thinking on what the West does in response. It'll be hard to get out of this mess! Mitterrand dug himself a hole though I'd expect any French president to end up just as stuffed at he is now. There will be many more 'Ops' moments to come. You mean Oooops in a bomb ore more. We will have to wait and see! |
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sandyman
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Post by sandyman on Jan 25, 2020 22:15:34 GMT
So the line in the sand has now well and truly been crossed. How it plays out is key now will NATO go for Tactical strikes on land I truly hope not. The destruction or loss of the UKs professional Army on the continent is going to really hurt. The U.K. is really going to struggle. Before I left the Army I was posted to a infantry training depot it took on average 18 weeks to get a couched bound teenager up to scrach as a basic infantryman and I do mean basic. Even if the U.K. can get the manpower trained what will they go into battle with. The U.K. has over the years thrown away the majority of it heavy industrial base and it’s not like the 40s when you could build a tank in a matter of days working 24/7 all modern equipment is Tec heavy and a lot if not all of the Tec takes a long old time to get built. The U.K. is not like America where they store a large ammount or equipment from socks up to Bombers the U.K. is stuffed. The only way for the U.K. is to go hand in glove to America and beg or buy a hell of a lot of equipment almost every thing an army needs I would say. Even the getting it to the U.K. is now going to be a challenge now that Uncle Sam has let fly with the Nucks.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 26, 2020 12:00:09 GMT
Well that was an expensive own goal by the US. I was thinking of their CVN's but the allies have a hell of a lot more vulnerable targets for a war at sea than the Soviets, and not just in the Atlantic/European theatre either. Even the threat of further nuclear attacks, either by subs or a/c as they get closer makes the transfer of the vital convoys a lot more difficult and possibly impossible.
The question is what does the west do know. The Soviets have replied with multiple attacks against a far more vital target and more could well - and given Moscow's instructions will - be coming. Do they try and restrict the war to naval use, which will greatly handicap them and leave the Soviets in control of escalation again or try and step things up themselves? At this point Mitterrand may be beginning to consider he made a mistake rejecting that Soviet approach, extremely bad as that would have been.
Steve
It really was. So much for that 'controllable situation' promised! With the majority of the Soviet fleet near home, or those forward units in the Med. & Gulf already wiped out, NATO has a lot more to lose at sea. I'm still thinking on what the West does in response. It'll be hard to get out of this mess!Mitterrand dug himself a hole though I'd expect any French president to end up just as stuffed at he is now. There will be many more 'Ops' moments to come.
That is the big problem. Earlier I would have suggested an ultimatum for a cease fire and rapid withdrawal of Soviet troops - or surrender of those in Britain. If not met a single strike on the Soviet Northern Fleet base near Murmansk with a warning that any nuclear response would be met with a major response. If your going to use nukes while trying to prevent it spiraling out of control then a single strike at something militarily important inside Soviet home territory as a clear statement that they have crossed the line and that the allies will make them pay if they don't stop. However given the current situation I suspect its too late for that.
I don't think Mitterrand has made any noticeable mistakes but his position has been weakened by the US initiation of nukes for a relatively trivial reason.
Steve
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