Real time Discusion thread

[lordroel]

That was it, the last update for September 1945 and with it, the epilogue for World War II in Real Time.

[stevep]

   I wondered how a Australian Tribal class DD got the name Bataan.  Checking back it was started in 42 and only launched in 45.  Too late to see active service during the war but did see a role in the occupation forces.  It was initially going to be named Chingilli or Kurnai but was renamed prior to launch in honour of the US stand during the Battle of Bataan.  

[stevep]

  lordroel ,

   I think there's an error in today's USCW thread.  The final section mentions the execution of Confederate 10 POWs after the disappearance of a loyalist who Confederate forces had captured and then allegedly released.

Ten Confederate prisoners of war were executed in reprisal for the abduction of a local United States supporter, Andrew Alsman. Andrew Alsman was a carpenter, sixty years old, and a United States patriot in a largely pro-Confederate area. He was taken prisoner by Confederate States Army, Colonel Joseph Chrisman Porter’s forces when Porter raided Palmyra on September 12th 1862. After several skirmishes, Porter decided that Alsman was a liability and set him free. Alsman was hesitant to leave the camp so Porter allowed him to choose a detail that would see him safely to the city limits of Palmyra or to the nearest United states lines. Alsman departed camp and was never seen again. Speculation is that he was taken into the woods and shot. On October 8th 1862 Provost Marshal William R Strachan, acting for McNeil, published a notice in the local Union newspaper threatening that unless Alsman was returned within ten days, ten of Porter’s men held as prisoners in Palmyra and Hannibal would be executed. On the evening of October 17th ten prisoners were selected, five from the jail in Hannibal, Missouri, and five from the jail in Palmyra. None were connected to the disappearance of Alsman but they were executed on by a firing squad from the 2nd Missouri Militia Infantry Regiment (Confederate States). The officer who ordered the execution, Confederate States Army, Colonel John McNeil (3rd Missouri Militia Infantry), was later known as the “Butcher of Palmyra” and the arbitrary executions have been described as the Palmyra Massacre.

  Since they were Confederate soldiers killed I doubt that McNeil was a CSA officer? - Actually checked on wiki here and confirmed he was a Union officer and doesn't seem to have been reprimanded for the action.

  Otherwise looks fine thanks.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Oct 18, 2024 11:17:00 GMT stevep said:

  lordroel ,

   I think there's an error in today's USCW thread.  The final section mentions the execution of Confederate 10 POWs after the disappearance of a loyalist who Confederate forces had captured and then allegedly released.

Ten Confederate prisoners of war were executed in reprisal for the abduction of a local United States supporter, Andrew Alsman. Andrew Alsman was a carpenter, sixty years old, and a United States patriot in a largely pro-Confederate area. He was taken prisoner by Confederate States Army, Colonel Joseph Chrisman Porter’s forces when Porter raided Palmyra on September 12th 1862. After several skirmishes, Porter decided that Alsman was a liability and set him free. Alsman was hesitant to leave the camp so Porter allowed him to choose a detail that would see him safely to the city limits of Palmyra or to the nearest United states lines. Alsman departed camp and was never seen again. Speculation is that he was taken into the woods and shot. On October 8th 1862 Provost Marshal William R Strachan, acting for McNeil, published a notice in the local Union newspaper threatening that unless Alsman was returned within ten days, ten of Porter’s men held as prisoners in Palmyra and Hannibal would be executed. On the evening of October 17th ten prisoners were selected, five from the jail in Hannibal, Missouri, and five from the jail in Palmyra. None were connected to the disappearance of Alsman but they were executed on by a firing squad from the 2nd Missouri Militia Infantry Regiment (Confederate States). The officer who ordered the execution, Confederate States Army, Colonel John McNeil (3rd Missouri Militia Infantry), was later known as the “Butcher of Palmyra” and the arbitrary executions have been described as the Palmyra Massacre.

  Since they were Confederate soldiers killed I doubt that McNeil was a CSA officer? - Actually checked on wiki here and confirmed he was a Union officer and doesn't seem to have been reprimanded for the action.

  Otherwise looks fine thanks.

  Steve

Thanks for the spotting, will edit it.

[575]

Re Korean War thread - Ibiblio have lots of releases CIA and FBI documents regarding the war; here there's a lot of info

[lordroel]

Oct 20, 2024 17:02:52 GMT 575 said:

Re Korean War thread - Ibiblio have lots of releases CIA and FBI documents regarding the war; here there's a lot of info

You want to make my work easier or harder, but thank for the link, will check it out.

[575]

Oct 20, 2024 17:06:01 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 20, 2024 17:02:52 GMT 575 said:

Re Korean War thread - Ibiblio have lots of releases CIA and FBI documents regarding the war; here there's a lot of info

You want to make my work easier or harder, but thank for the link, will check it out.

Well You don't HAVE to.

BTW my interest is more regarding a possible Soviet - Yugoslavia War in the space of 1948-53 - the entry of CIA 1950-06-27b have interesting info in that regard.

[575]

Re todays post 123, on the Korean war - mentioned "six Chinese Communist armies-the 38th, 38th, 40th, 42d, 50th, and 66th," seems to be a typo here.

[lordroel]

Oct 24, 2024 7:48:37 GMT 575 said:

Re todays post 123, on the Korean war - mentioned "six Chinese Communist armies-the 38th, 38th, 40th, 42d, 50th, and 66th," seems to be a typo here.

I will see if I can find the right one and edit it.

[lordroel]

I do not know how long i can keep the Korean War Timeline updated with good days, i am now a couple months ahead and it is getting harder to fill some days, so should i just post if there is nothing on a day with, No Information Available ore make the thread a Weekly update with The Korean War by Indy Neidell only.

[stevep]

Nov 6, 2024 16:03:05 GMT lordroel said:

I do not know how long i can keep the Korean War Timeline updated with good days, i am now a couple months ahead and it is getting harder to fill some days, so should i just post if there is nothing on a day with, No Information Available ore make the thread a Weekly update with The Korean War by Indy Neidell only.

  I would prefer a no info available but if your busy a weekly update would be fine.

[lordroel]

Nov 6, 2024 16:30:16 GMT stevep said:

Nov 6, 2024 16:03:05 GMT lordroel said:

I do not know how long i can keep the Korean War Timeline updated with good days, i am now a couple months ahead and it is getting harder to fill some days, so should i just post if there is nothing on a day with, No Information Available ore make the thread a Weekly update with The Korean War by Indy Neidell only.

  I would prefer a no info available but if your busy a weekly update would be fine.

Busy, no, information about the Civil War, easy, the Korean War, some days a lot, some days nothing, this is not World War I ore II we speak of but i think i can place the No Information Available in the days where i find nothing.

[stevep]

   Comment on today's Korean War thread, which has

United Kingdom

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Clement Attlee and Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Ernest Bevin propose a plan for ending the Korean War, by establishing a buffer zone between Chinese and United Nations forces that would extend 60 to 100 miles south of the Yalu River. When the proposal became public, it was criticized in the United States as a betrayal comparable to the Munich Agreement of 1938 and United States Army, General MacArthur replies that "to yield to so immoral a proposition would bankrupt our leadership and influence in Asia and render untenable our position both politically and militarily."

  Sounds like the US messed up here.  China might well not accept such a proposal but that would put them on the spot as the barrier to a peaceful settlement.  Instead the US has put themselves in such a position.

  Its nothing like the Munich Agreement so that's an idiotic statement as no S Korean territory being conceded and it basically makes S Korea the only real Korea as opposed to a small rump in the north.