Miscellaneous, Non-Frivolous ASB Ideas

[Zyobot]

‘2039 US Frontier And Midwestern States To 1979’.

[Zyobot]

'2012 Western US To 1952'.

[lordroel]

Jan 2, 2020 2:11:08 GMT Zyobot said:

'2012 Western US To 1952'.

Will it join the Korean War.

[Zyobot]

Jan 2, 2020 3:47:53 GMT lordroel said:

Jan 2, 2020 2:11:08 GMT Zyobot said:

'2012 Western US To 1952'.

Will it join the Korean War.

That’d be my guess. With uptimer help, I predict that America would certainly drive the Communist North from southern Korea. Maybe if it’s especially daring, it might try to secure the whole peninsula. The USSR and China will feel extremely threatened by the 2012 forces’ close presence, let alone its existence in general.

[lordroel]

Jan 2, 2020 14:58:01 GMT Zyobot said:

Jan 2, 2020 3:47:53 GMT lordroel said:

Will it join the Korean War.

That’d be my guess. With uptimer help, I predict that America would certainly drive the Communist North from southern Korea. Maybe if it’s especially daring, it might try to secure the whole peninsula. The USSR and China will feel extremely threatened by the 2012 forces’ close presence, let alone its existence in general.

So what major bases are there in the Uptime Midwestern.

[Zyobot]

Jan 2, 2020 15:27:58 GMT lordroel said:

Jan 2, 2020 14:58:01 GMT Zyobot said:

That’d be my guess. With uptimer help, I predict that America would certainly drive the Communist North from southern Korea. Maybe if it’s especially daring, it might try to secure the whole peninsula. The USSR and China will feel extremely threatened by the 2012 forces’ close presence, let alone its existence in general.

So what major bases are there in the Uptime Midwestern.

I was referring to the western half of the US, lordroel. You know, the place depicted in blue on the map below:

[lordroel]

Jan 2, 2020 17:18:19 GMT Zyobot said:

Jan 2, 2020 15:27:58 GMT lordroel said:

So what major bases are there in the Uptime Midwestern.

I was referring to the western half of the US, lordroel. You know, the place depicted in blue on the map below:

So what can they bring into the Korean conflict then.

[stevep]

Jan 2, 2020 17:31:04 GMT lordroel said:

Jan 2, 2020 17:18:19 GMT Zyobot said:

I was referring to the western half of the US, lordroel. You know, the place depicted in blue on the map below:

So what can they bring into the Korean conflict then.

   Well your got Texas and the west coast which have a lot of military and industrial centres as well as all the US Pacific fleet.  If things really went to hell this includes the latter's SSBNs and N Dakota so it could be a very short conflict but very, very nasty for anyone who gets in their way.

  Given that this western US very likely exceeds the 1952 east in population there are going to be some 'interesting' times ahead in both the US and the world.

[Zyobot]

Jan 3, 2020 12:17:59 GMT stevep said:

Jan 2, 2020 17:31:04 GMT lordroel said:

So what can they bring into the Korean conflict then.

   Well your got Texas and the west coast which have a lot of military and industrial centres as well as all the US Pacific fleet.  If things really went to hell this includes the latter's SSBNs and N Dakota so it could be a very short conflict but very, very nasty for anyone who gets in their way.

  Given that this western US very likely exceeds the 1952 east in population there are going to be some 'interesting' times ahead in both the US and the world.

Indeed, there will be. In addition to having to sort out the normal implications of a mass time-travel ISOT, it just so happens that 1952 is an election year as well. So, who might the uptimers--those deemed eligible to vote due to different minimum ages, anyway--support? With some exceptions, I doubt that Obama would do too well with downtimers because of their racist attitudes. For God's sake, they were debating whether civil rights was the right thing to pass, never mind the fact that, where and when the uptimers came from, America elected its first black POTUS in 2008 !

Even discounting the upcoming presidential election, the US's political landscape has changed dramatically relative to what the downtimers must be used to (obviously, sixty years of progress tends to do that). For one, the Deep South has transformed from a reliably Democratic stronghold to an arch-Republican bastion, while the parties themselves have adopted much different social and fiscal stances by 2012.

On economic policy, I'm aware that modern America gets a rap for being more right-wing than its counterpart from forty, fifty, sixty years ago. To my knowledge, however, there were areas in which there was actually less government intervention back in the 1950s as well--no War on Poverty yet, less pollution controls, shorter copyright terms, and not nearly as much federal student-loan assistance, just to name a few. Further, even though it doesn't operate by the gold standard anymore, 1950s America still allows foreign governments to exchange dollars for gold, which uptimer America finally disallowed in 1971. Maybe this will fuel the inevitable debate over how to manage currency and whatnot, even if it ultimately plays second fiddle to disputes over foreign policy, the Sexual Revolution, Silicon Valley, and future Supreme Court cases (among others)? Official legislation aside, I predict a Culture War that'll make the OTL Sixties version look tame by comparison--this time between the (socially) progressive, technocratic 2012 crowd that includes fully-grown Baby Boomers and idealistic young Millennials, and the (socially) conservative, Red Scare-ridden population of 1952 with its myriad World-Wars veterans and reverence for American values and "pro-family traditionalism".

[stevep]

Jan 4, 2020 21:09:09 GMT Zyobot said:

Jan 3, 2020 12:17:59 GMT stevep said:

   Well your got Texas and the west coast which have a lot of military and industrial centres as well as all the US Pacific fleet.  If things really went to hell this includes the latter's SSBNs and N Dakota so it could be a very short conflict but very, very nasty for anyone who gets in their way.

  Given that this western US very likely exceeds the 1952 east in population there are going to be some 'interesting' times ahead in both the US and the world.

Indeed, there will be. In addition to having to sort out the normal implications of a mass time-travel ISOT, it just so happens that 1952 is an election year as well. So, who might the uptimers--those deemed eligible to vote due to different minimum ages, anyway--support? With some exceptions, I doubt that Obama would do too well with downtimers because of their racist attitudes. For God's sake, they were debating whether civil rights was the right thing to pass, never mind the fact that, where and when the uptimers came from, America elected its first black POTUS in 2008 !

Even discounting the upcoming presidential election, the US's political landscape has changed dramatically relative to what the downtimers must be used to (obviously, sixty years of progress tends to do that). For one, the Deep South has transformed from a reliably Democratic stronghold to an arch-Republican bastion, while the parties themselves have adopted much different social and fiscal stances by 2012.

On economic policy, I'm aware that modern America gets a rap for being more right-wing than its counterpart from forty, fifty, sixty years ago. To my knowledge, however, there were areas in which there was actually less government intervention back in the 1950s as well--no War on Poverty yet, less pollution controls, shorter copyright terms, and not nearly as much federal student-loan assistance, just to name a few. Further, even though it doesn't operate by the gold standard anymore, 1950s America still allows foreign governments to exchange dollars for gold, which uptimer America finally disallowed in 1971. Maybe this will fuel the inevitable debate over how to manage currency and whatnot, even if it ultimately plays second fiddle to disputes over foreign policy, the Sexual Revolution, Silicon Valley, and future Supreme Court cases (among others)? Official legislation aside, I predict a Culture War that'll make the OTL Sixties version look tame by comparison--this time between the (socially) progressive, technocratic 2012 crowd that includes fully-grown Baby Boomers and idealistic young Millennials, and the (socially) conservative, Red Scare-ridden population of 1952 with its myriad World-Wars veterans and reverence for American values and "pro-family traditionalism".

 Zyobot,

  I think the differences are so great that as in another such TL the two elements would have to be basically separate in terms of government for a while at least if not ending up separate permanently.  Otherwise possibly a bloody civil war that the west would almost certainly win but could cause lasting resentment.  After all for 52US Wade v Roe will be explosive enough let alone issues like acceptance not just of homosexuality but gay marriages being formally legal.  As you say racial attitudes are so different and so are many sexual ones.  Imagine if Obama was actually in the west at the time and brought alone.  If he decided to stand for re-election the reaction across much of the NE let alone the deep south!  There was still a lot of doubts about Kennedy's election in 1960 because he was a Catholic.

  Steve

[Zyobot]

Jan 5, 2020 13:28:50 GMT stevep said:

Jan 4, 2020 21:09:09 GMT Zyobot said:

Indeed, there will be. In addition to having to sort out the normal implications of a mass time-travel ISOT, it just so happens that 1952 is an election year as well. So, who might the uptimers--those deemed eligible to vote due to different minimum ages, anyway--support? With some exceptions, I doubt that Obama would do too well with downtimers because of their racist attitudes. For God's sake, they were debating whether civil rights was the right thing to pass, never mind the fact that, where and when the uptimers came from, America elected its first black POTUS in 2008 !

Even discounting the upcoming presidential election, the US's political landscape has changed dramatically relative to what the downtimers must be used to (obviously, sixty years of progress tends to do that). For one, the Deep South has transformed from a reliably Democratic stronghold to an arch-Republican bastion, while the parties themselves have adopted much different social and fiscal stances by 2012.

On economic policy, I'm aware that modern America gets a rap for being more right-wing than its counterpart from forty, fifty, sixty years ago. To my knowledge, however, there were areas in which there was actually less government intervention back in the 1950s as well--no War on Poverty yet, less pollution controls, shorter copyright terms, and not nearly as much federal student-loan assistance, just to name a few. Further, even though it doesn't operate by the gold standard anymore, 1950s America still allows foreign governments to exchange dollars for gold, which uptimer America finally disallowed in 1971. Maybe this will fuel the inevitable debate over how to manage currency and whatnot, even if it ultimately plays second fiddle to disputes over foreign policy, the Sexual Revolution, Silicon Valley, and future Supreme Court cases (among others)? Official legislation aside, I predict a Culture War that'll make the OTL Sixties version look tame by comparison--this time between the (socially) progressive, technocratic 2012 crowd that includes fully-grown Baby Boomers and idealistic young Millennials, and the (socially) conservative, Red Scare-ridden population of 1952 with its myriad World-Wars veterans and reverence for American values and "pro-family traditionalism".

 Zyobot ,

  I think the differences are so great that as in another such TL the two elements would have to be basically separate in terms of government for a while at least if not ending up separate permanently.  Otherwise possibly a bloody civil war that the west would almost certainly win but could cause lasting resentment.  After all for 52US Wade v Roe will be explosive enough let alone issues like acceptance not just of homosexuality but gay marriages being formally legal.  As you say racial attitudes are so different and so are many sexual ones.  Imagine if Obama was actually in the west at the time and brought alone.  If he decided to stand for re-election the reaction across much of the NE let alone the deep south!  There was still a lot of doubts about Kennedy's election in 1960 because he was a Catholic.

  Steve

Oh, yeah; good points. Actually, it's probably to Obama's benefit that he wasn't sent along for the ride due to the Racist Derangement Syndrome that he'd be bombarded with 24/7. The likes of Alex Jones and the Tea Party suddenly look pretty tame now that the pro-Jim Crow Segregationists have returned, huh?

Insofar as separate governments go, I can see 2012 America initiating secessionist proceedings first, while D.C. protests before eventually coming around once they realize just how incompatible uptimer society is with their values and objectives. That, and they presumably don't have the firepower or economic clout to bludgeon "WUSA" into submission--quite the opposite, in fact.

However, I do wonder if they could hash out a trade deal anytime soon, though what the uptimer states would need to import from them, I don't know. By contrast, "EUSA" would want to get its hands on 2012 technology and scientific knowledge--with computers, smart devices and internet standing out the most. Of course, I expect they'd be a whole lot less permissive when it comes to legislating the WWW assuming that they allow the public to access it at all. Also, how might they reconcile broadcasting regulations like the Fairness Doctrine with the rise of online media, namely citizen journalism and digital outlets primed to compete with the small assortment of "Legacy Media" firms they're familiar with? To that end, SCOTUS might also reexamine their OTL rulings on future cases like New York Times Vs. Sullivan, due to the fear that heavier burdens of proof for public figures could embolden news tabloids and whatnot.

There's also the post-1950s space exploration efforts like the Moon landings as well as deploying robots on Mars and unmanned spacecrafts into the greater solar system, so maybe downtimer NASA would vie for uptimer assistance in those areas (i.e. beating "those dirty Reds" to launching the first space satellite this time around).

[Zyobot]

‘Modern Sci-Fi Media To 1979’.

[lordroel]

Jan 6, 2020 18:01:29 GMT Zyobot said:

‘Modern Sci-Fi Media To 1979’.

All of it, the good and the bad.

[Zyobot]

Jan 6, 2020 19:24:16 GMT lordroel said:

Jan 6, 2020 18:01:29 GMT Zyobot said:

‘Modern Sci-Fi Media To 1979’.

All of it, the good and the bad.

Yes, all of it. That way they can learn from the bad stuff in addition to the good.

[lordroel]

Jan 6, 2020 19:44:51 GMT Zyobot said:

Jan 6, 2020 19:24:16 GMT lordroel said:

All of it, the good and the bad.

Yes, all of it. That way they can learn from the bad stuff in addition to the good.

Some people like Gene Roddenberry will have a field day, also can he claim ownership of all modern Star Trek material.