Map Thread I

[gillan1220]

Mar 18, 2021 18:23:29 GMT James G said:

I made this map for my Second American Civil war story. It was done using Paint.

(click to enlarge)

View Attachment

Here's a version I made which included the territories and the three countries under the Compact of Free Trade Agreement.

[lordroel]

Europe of the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe in 1955 after the signing of the Warsaw Pacht in 1955.

Blue are members of NATO.

Red are members of the Warsaw Pact

Norway, Yugoslavia and Albania are aligned with the Soviet Union but not members of the Warsaw Pact.

Cyprus is aligned with NATO but not a member of it.

[gillan1220]

Jul 29, 2021 17:16:52 GMT lordroel said:

Europe of the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe in 1955 after the signing of the Warsaw Pacht in 1955.

Blue are members of NATO.

Red are members of the Warsaw Pact

Norway, Yugoslavia and Albania are aligned with the Soviet Union but not members of the Warsaw Pact.

Cyprus is aligned with NATO but not a member of it.

Is Norway communist in this timeline?

[lordroel]

Jul 29, 2021 17:26:21 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 29, 2021 17:16:52 GMT lordroel said:

Europe of the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe in 1955 after the signing of the Warsaw Pacht in 1955.

Blue are members of NATO.

Red are members of the Warsaw Pact

Norway, Yugoslavia and Albania are aligned with the Soviet Union but not members of the Warsaw Pact.

Cyprus is aligned with NATO but not a member of it.

Is Norway communist in this timeline?

In 1944 in the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe, Norway and Greece as part of the German-Soviet armistice of August 1944 where given to the Soviet Union, despite protest of the Allies of course who broke of all relations with the Soviet Union who only re-entered the war On January 7th 1945 when they invaded German held Poland and moved up to Berlin where they surrounded the city as you can read in the link above.

Norway after the end of the war was forced to accept a communist government but the country retained a level of independence unknown throughout the Soviet bloc—with the exception of the comparable arrangement established in Tito’s Yugoslavia.

[gillan1220]

Jul 29, 2021 17:39:20 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 29, 2021 17:26:21 GMT gillan1220 said:

Is Norway communist in this timeline?

In 1944 in the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe, Norway and Greece as part of the German-Soviet armistice of August 1944 where given to the Soviet Union, despite protest of the Allies of course who broke of all relations with the Soviet Union who only re-entered the war On January 7th 1945 when they invaded German held Poland and moved up to Berlin where they surrounded the city as you can read in the link above.

Norway after the end of the war was forced to accept a communist government but the country retained a level of independence unknown throughout the Soviet bloc—with the exception of the comparable arrangement established in Tito’s Yugoslavia.

Where does the Norwegian monarchy go to in exile? Britain?

[lordroel]

Jul 29, 2021 17:50:58 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 29, 2021 17:39:20 GMT lordroel said:

In 1944 in the Fox on the Rhine/Fox at the Front universe, Norway and Greece as part of the German-Soviet armistice of August 1944 where given to the Soviet Union, despite protest of the Allies of course who broke of all relations with the Soviet Union who only re-entered the war On January 7th 1945 when they invaded German held Poland and moved up to Berlin where they surrounded the city as you can read in the link above.

Norway after the end of the war was forced to accept a communist government but the country retained a level of independence unknown throughout the Soviet bloc—with the exception of the comparable arrangement established in Tito’s Yugoslavia.

Where does the Norwegian monarchy go to in exile? Britain?

They where already in the United Kingdom during the war, think they would stay there, ore they would go to Denmark after the war, Haakon VII of Norway was brother to Christian X of Denmark, and uncle to later Frederick IX of Denmark, so he has family where he can go to.

[jjohnson]

Kind of a 'space-filling empires' map for North America.

USA: After Jonathon Eddy won Nova Scotia during the Revolution, and Quebec joined the United States, the new nation seemed poised to settle all of North America.  United Empire Loyalists went instead to land ceded by Spain to the British Empire south of its South American holdings in exchange for getting both Florida and Cuba back from the British in 1783.  The War of 1812 still occurred due to the impressment of US soldiers and the British presence on Newfoundland and Labrador and with fur trappers north of the St Lawrence watershed.  The northern interest in protective tariffs continued, challenged by South Carolina in 1828's Nullification of the Tariff of Abominations.  Interested in protecting their industries, the north began attacking southern slavery, despite their own complicity in the slave trade for over 200 years.  Texas declared its independence in 1836 from Mexico, and it aided Rio Grande in 1840 to achieve its independence.  Mexico stewed and finally attacked when Texas and Rio Grande joined the United States in 1846, resulting in the Mexican-American War.  Lasting about 2 years, a little less than OTL, the war resulted in a new settlement with the Mexicans, ceding all land west of Rio Grande, including San Luis Potosi and Zacatecas, down to the 29th parallel, a portion of the state of Veracruz.  At the same time, President Polk negotiated with the British, achieving a larger share of Oregon Country to the 52nd parallel, as without Quebec/Canada, there was much less settlement and much less need to hold onto their North American lands. 

Northern newspapers continued agitating against the southern states, the Compromise of 1850 barely calming them down; California was admitted as two states - California and Baja California (below the 37th parallel) - the northern California becoming a free state, the southern a slave state, to maintain the Senate balance between the two sections.  The north sought to add more northern states to increase their power, while the South sought to introduce southern states to try to maintain some balance.  By 1860, after the John Brown incident in Kansas and in Harpers Ferry, the southerners believed they were no longer safe within the Union and left.  Initially, the north let them leave until they realized that much of their tariff revenue was going through those ports, and the new confederation's lower tariff essentially nullified their newly passed Morrill Tariff; that was when Lincoln called for 75,000 troops to suppress the 'rebellion', causing the secession of several more states.  After 4 years of war, the north was defeated, only after the south emancipated their slaves and won foreign recognition.

After the war, the north needed revenue, and turned west, with a much more aggressive Indian removal policy to settle the lands and find new resources.  Settlement to the north proceeded also, and by 1878, the British sold Rupert's Land and the Northwest Territories to the Americans and Confederates for several million dollars, as they weren't getting much for the land, leaving only Newfoundland as the lone holdout off the once vast British Empire.  Over the 19th century, the Americans would gain several islands, including Samoa (later traded to the Confederates for their support in acquiring the Solomons, Fiji, and a few other territories).

By the end of the 20th century, there would be 50 United States, not including the territory of Greenland.  The US never entered the European War, as there was no causus belli, despite the maneuvering and propaganda.  It did enter the second European War, and experienced a huge economic boom as one of two economies not devastated by the war.  The 1950s were a boom time for the Americans, though there was no 'big bad' to keep the country on war footing with the Russians no longer communist.  Americans did enter Africa as the colonies decolonized in the 1960s, as 'peacekeepers,' mostly in Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, and in Asia in Vietnam, in several wars that lasted till 1972.  With increased spending, the Americans went off the gold standard and began the petrodollar, backing the dollar by middle-eastern nations selling only in the USD, creating much higher artificial demand for it.  In the 1970s-1980s the US went into various Central and Southern American nations again on 'peacekeeping' missions, until the Confederate States made an agreement with then that resulted in their pullout by 1989.  In 1991, the Americans went into Iraq, ending the invasion of Kuwait, then went into the collapsed Yugoslavia in several engagements, Thailand, and Burma before returning to Iraq in 2003, in addition to Afghanistan in 2001.  One US general boasted they would topple seven nations (Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran) in five years.  Most didn't get toppled, however, and the US would begin drawing down troops in 2012, after having toppled Libya, which was attempting to create a gold pan-African currency, which would've challenged the dominance of the dollar.

CSA: leaving the United States over the tariff, internal improvements, northern terrorism, and the regulation of the western territories, the Confederates fought four years against the strongest army in the western hemisphere, barely holding them off until they emancipated their slaves in 1864.  After holding Atlanta in November, the British and French recognized the new nation.  Lincoln tried one last time at Hampton Roads to get the south to rejoin the Union, but they rejected the offer.  Once peace was settled, the southerners took Kentucky and Missouri in the settlement, but ceded a notch for Nevada to have river access.  Settling west, the Confederates took the opportunity to purchase Alaska from the Russians in 1867, and in 1874, annexed Hawaii before the US could stage a coup against the natives.  They stumbled into war with Spain, but gained Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Mariana Islands, while the Spanish sold the Philippines to the US, recouping some of the cost of the war.  In 1878, in a deal with the British in their divestiture of their last continental holdings, they received the Yukon territory, 120 W to the Pacific, and then along the continental divide to the 52nd parallel, the US state of Columbia.  

The CS were maneuvered into war with Mexico and France, called World War 1.  France and Russia were at war with the Germans and Austro-Hungarians over Serbia, and France promised Mexico its northern lands back if it sided with France.  The Americans stayed out of the war as did the British, while the Confederates joined in 1915, first against Mexico, then against France in 1916.  The United States tried to enter the war, but they were even more isolationist than the Confederates.  France capitulated without any aid, while Russia fell to a revolution; Austria-Hungary tried to federate after the war, but collapsed, and split into multiple nations (German Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia); and the Turks were forced to cede Trebizond, the Aegean coast, Cyprus, and a large area to Kurdistan and Armenia. The CS claimed Guyana, Martinique, Polynesia, New Caledonia, and Guadeloupe, and had bought the Bahamas, Bermuda, and the Virgin Islands from the British to forgive some British war debts.  Twenty years later, France had fallen to a fascist dictatorship as had Italy, Germany, Austria, and Poland, and Soviet Russia took the opportunity to attack Poland and Germany-Austria preemptively.  France allied itself with Soviet Russia to reclaim parts of Germany, and when they went through Belgium, the British joined against them, followed soon after by the Confederates and Americans; after 5 years of horrible war, a German revolution (Operation Valkyrie) toppled its fascist regime, and the new government surrendered itself to the British-American-Confederate alliance, putting its entire military force at their command, essentially.  Within another six months, the combined forces had toppled Italy, France, and Poland, and were approaching Moscow before the Soviets sued for peace, after losing another 2 million men.

Within months of the end of the war, the Soviets collapsed, and a much more limited confederated republic was put in place.  In China, without the Soviets, the Chinese communists were exiled to 'Manchuria' and split from mainland China, where they would collapse in the 1990s without any foreign recognition of their regime.  Without the Soviets, Korea remained united thanks to allied support.  Germany was occupied and de-fascist-ized, as were Italy, Poland, and France, by the Americans, British, and Confederates.  Poland had a new republic, as did France and Italy; Italy was ceded Savoy, Nice, and Corsica for France's part in starting the war, and Germany got Belfort, Briey, and the land east of the Moselle attached to Alsace-Lorraine; Austria and Germany were forbidden to unify, while Austria kept Teschen, Sudetenland, Vierburgenland, and German Bohemia.  During the 1950s, the Europeans were merged into an economic free trade zone and a collective security zone called the European Confederation that eventually became something like the American Union under the Articles of Confederation, eventually releasing the Euro currency in 2001.

By the end of the 20th century, there would be 40 Confederate States.

Mexico: Mexico won independence in the 1820s from Spain but suffered under a legacy of unstable and corrupt governments due to their colonial legacy.  In 1836, Texans seceded to protect the rights violated in the 1826 Mexican Constitution, and soon after, Rio Grande and Yucatan did also.  Rio Grande and Texas secured Rio Grander independence, and Mexico declared war on the United States for annexing their territory in 1846, resulting in the loss of almost all land north of the 29th parallel, but recognition of Mexican sovereignty over Yucatan.  After the war, the Americans paid Mexico for their land, which went to infrastructure projects, bringing rail and new public buildings to the much smaller nation.  The Porfirio came about, with even more infrastructure, including massive rail projects and public sanitation spending, but a new President came into power, even more corrupt than the last.  When France promised its northern land back, Mexicans began pointing to the Confederates as the source of their troubles as a country, and the reconquista of their land would be the resolution of their troubles.  They entered the first great war as a semi-ally of the French, but their two years of fighting resulted in defeat at the hands of the Confederates, a large number of whom were descendants of Mexicans who remained north of the 29th parallel.  Again, the Mexican government fell, but this time, the Confederates occupied the country to prevent another war, and sorted Mexico out, creating a new constitution that severely limited their central government.  Mexico participated in the second great war, as an ally of the Confederates, providing food, alcohol, oil, gold, silver, and copper to them.  Slowly but surely, Mexico was becoming more prosperous and less corrupt.  

By the end of the 20th century, Mexico was roughly as prosperous as any CS or US state, with a total GDP of about $3.4 trillion in 2020.

[miletus12]

Something SteveP suggested.



Follow that idea here.

[stevep]

Dec 13, 2021 21:02:47 GMT miletus12 said:

Something SteveP suggested.



Follow that idea here.they co

  miletus12,

  Many thanks.  A good map.  You do seem to have Cuba as part of the British empire instead of Puerto Rico unless I'm misreading something?  Interesting that we keep pretty much the OTL Pacific coastline but would work and also probably mean you still get the Colorado and Rio Grande river systems.  That big inland lake in the west would also moderate the climate somewhat I suspect.  Looks like your taken out the bulk of the Mississippi basin.  Might need to remove more of the old south to get the 1/3rd of the OTL US area but a bit difficult to tell from the projection.  - As a dino I'm so used to the Mercator projection.

  In terms of the 'American' empire technically Egypt was independent, although still had imperial forces based there while Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Uganda and S Sudan were parts of the empire.  Plus the northern part of Somalia was also part of the empire, although Italy occupied it for a short period after they joined the war.

  Also by Sept 39 Japan had occupied a lot more of China.  Plus France had Syria/Lebanon. 

  Sorry, too many decades staring at historical & AH maps.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Dec 14, 2021 12:19:33 GMT stevep said:

Dec 13, 2021 21:02:47 GMT miletus12 said:

Something SteveP suggested.



Follow that idea here.they co

  miletus12,

  Many thanks.  A good map.  You do seem to have Cuba as part of the British empire instead of Puerto Rico unless I'm misreading something?  Interesting that we keep pretty much the OTL Pacific coastline but would work and also probably mean you still get the Colorado and Rio Grande river systems.  That big inland lake in the west would also moderate the climate somewhat I suspect.  Looks like your taken out the bulk of the Mississippi basin.  Might need to remove more of the old south to get the 1/3rd of the OTL US area but a bit difficult to tell from the projection.  - As a dino I'm so used to the Mercator projection.

  In terms of the 'American' empire technically Egypt was independent, although still had imperial forces based there while Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Uganda and S Sudan were parts of the empire.  Plus the northern part of Somalia was also part of the empire, although Italy occupied it for a short period after they joined the war.

  Also by Sept 39 Japan had occupied a lot more of China.  Plus France had Syria/Lebanon. 

  Sorry, too many decades staring at historical & AH maps.

  Steve

Would Japan not be a frozen wasteland now.

[miletus12]

Dec 14, 2021 12:19:33 GMT stevep said:

Dec 13, 2021 21:02:47 GMT miletus12 said:

Something SteveP suggested.



Follow that idea here.they co

  miletus12 ,

  Many thanks.  A good map.  You do seem to have Cuba as part of the British empire instead of Puerto Rico unless I'm misreading something?  Interesting that we keep pretty much the OTL Pacific coastline but would work and also probably mean you still get the Colorado and Rio Grande river systems.  That big inland lake in the west would also moderate the climate somewhat I suspect.  Looks like your taken out the bulk of the Mississippi basin.  Might need to remove more of the old south to get the 1/3rd of the OTL US area but a bit difficult to tell from the projection.  - As a dino I'm so used to the Mercator projection.

  In terms of the 'American' empire technically Egypt was independent, although still had imperial forces based there while Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Uganda and S Sudan were parts of the empire.  Plus the northern part of Somalia was also part of the empire, although Italy occupied it for a short period after they joined the war.

  Also by Sept 39 Japan had occupied a lot more of China.  Plus France had Syria/Lebanon. 

  Sorry, too many decades staring at historical & AH maps.

  Steve

Explanation.

1. The US inundation is what should be expected if east Texas and Lousiania were about 7 meters lower in elevation.
2. The Great Salt Lake was once an inland sea.
3. I took liberties with expected Wilsonian shenanigans at Versailes, that never happened.
4. South Sudan is a result of a botched expedition that never rescued Gordon... er Custer.
5. Uganda is not worth the effort.
6. Italy gets that chunk of worthless shoreline because Americans looked it over and thought... "nah".
7. Sri Lanka? Bailiff of Malta (French admiral) hands the USN its rump and post 1815 France gives them their independence after a Haiti style rebellion kicks them out. 
8. Wilson keeps his promise to the Arabs.
9. Chiang Kai Shek's generals do not screw up the Shanghai campaign as badly as they did and the Japanese hold off further north. 

That is my story and I am sticking to it.
 

[stevep]

Dec 14, 2021 18:25:14 GMT miletus12 said:

Dec 14, 2021 12:19:33 GMT stevep said:

  miletus12 ,

  Many thanks.  A good map.  You do seem to have Cuba as part of the British empire instead of Puerto Rico unless I'm misreading something?  Interesting that we keep pretty much the OTL Pacific coastline but would work and also probably mean you still get the Colorado and Rio Grande river systems.  That big inland lake in the west would also moderate the climate somewhat I suspect.  Looks like your taken out the bulk of the Mississippi basin.  Might need to remove more of the old south to get the 1/3rd of the OTL US area but a bit difficult to tell from the projection.  - As a dino I'm so used to the Mercator projection.

  In terms of the 'American' empire technically Egypt was independent, although still had imperial forces based there while Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Uganda and S Sudan were parts of the empire.  Plus the northern part of Somalia was also part of the empire, although Italy occupied it for a short period after they joined the war.

  Also by Sept 39 Japan had occupied a lot more of China.  Plus France had Syria/Lebanon. 

  Sorry, too many decades staring at historical & AH maps.

  Steve

Explanation.

1. The US inundation is what should be expected if east Texas and Lousiania were about 7 meters lower in elevation.
2. The Great Salt Lake was once an inland sea.
3. I took liberties with expected Wilsonian shenanigans at Versailes, that never happened.
4. South Sudan is a result of a botched expedition that never rescued Gordon... er Custer.
5. Uganda is not worth the effort.
6. Italy gets that chunk of worthless shoreline because Americans looked it over and thought... "nah".
7. Sri Lanka? Bailiff of Malta (French admiral) hands the USN its rump and post 1815 France gives them their independence after a Haiti style rebellion kicks them out. 
8. Wilson keeps his promise to the Arabs.
9. Chiang Kai Shek's generals do not screw up the Shanghai campaign as badly as they did and the Japanese hold off further north. 

That is my story and I am sticking to it.
 

Explanation.

1. The US inundation is what should be expected if east Texas and Lousiania were about 7 meters lower in elevation. - OK thanks. 
2. The Great Salt Lake was once an inland sea. - Ditto.
3. I took liberties with expected Wilsonian shenanigans at Versailes, that never happened. - Is this about the situation in Egypt?
4. South Sudan is a result of a botched expedition that never rescued Gordon... er Custer. - Well that would be interesting.  Either way George ends up badly.  probably better for the population than ending up under Arab rule for ~50+ years.
5. Uganda is not worth the effort.  - I think it was actually fairly wealthy.  Unlike S Sudan which I think was largely swamp and desert.  IIRC there was a clash of influence between Britain and France so could end up French here.
6. Italy gets that chunk of worthless shoreline because Americans looked it over and thought... "nah". - Possibly although I suspect the prime concern was that it faced British American colonies in Yemen and gives influence over the control of the straits and hence the southern bottleneck between the Med and Indian Oceans.
7. Sri Lanka? Bailiff of Malta (French admiral) hands the USN its rump and post 1815 France gives them their independence after a Haiti style rebellion kicks them out. - In that case the Dutch might try and get them back but then they could fail.
8. Wilson keeps his promise to the Arabs.  _ So a rump independent state in Syria/Lebanon as well as whoever ends up in charge of 'Arabia' and the American mandates in Palestine/Jordan and Iraq.
9. Chiang Kai Shek's generals do not screw up the Shanghai campaign as badly as they did and the Japanese hold off further north.  - Good.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. - Excellent.  Fine with that as I don't think it greatly changes anything and gives a bit of depth to the situation.  As I say I was channeling my inner pedantic.

[miletus12]

Dec 14, 2021 15:37:11 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 14, 2021 12:19:33 GMT stevep said:

  miletus12 ,

  Many thanks.  A good map.  You do seem to have Cuba as part of the British empire instead of Puerto Rico unless I'm misreading something?  Interesting that we keep pretty much the OTL Pacific coastline but would work and also probably mean you still get the Colorado and Rio Grande river systems.  That big inland lake in the west would also moderate the climate somewhat I suspect.  Looks like your taken out the bulk of the Mississippi basin.  Might need to remove more of the old south to get the 1/3rd of the OTL US area but a bit difficult to tell from the projection.  - As a dino I'm so used to the Mercator projection.

  In terms of the 'American' empire technically Egypt was independent, although still had imperial forces based there while Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Uganda and S Sudan were parts of the empire.  Plus the northern part of Somalia was also part of the empire, although Italy occupied it for a short period after they joined the war.

  Also by Sept 39 Japan had occupied a lot more of China.  Plus France had Syria/Lebanon. 

  Sorry, too many decades staring at historical & AH maps.

  Steve

Would Japan not be a frozen wasteland now.

The Japan current carries Pacific thermal energy to the west of North America. It is the Gulf Stream system scaled up 100%, 

[miletus12]

Here is a post Teddy Roosevelt Versailles Treaty World.



Note some changes?

a. Wilhelm the Second does not make it, but Karl of Austria does.
b. That 1905 blow me down between Norway and Sweden kind of derails a different way.
c. Pancho Villa made a mistake and Mexico pays for it.
d. The Armenia massacre has severe consequnces for Turkey.
e. Ditto Bulgaria.
f. Italy does not have Cadorna. They do much better in their part of the war.
g. Holland does better. Incidentally the King of Belgium does not make it either. Sins of the father and all that.
h. Africa looks a little different.
i. Portugal makes a bad mistake.
k. Japan does her thing, but notice the Americans get there ahead of her in the West Pacific. TR snaps up the Micronesian and other German possessions one fleet ahead of the Japanese posse. 
l. And there are three communist states. The Central European Socialist Union has a Hapsburg monarch. The Eastern European Socialist Union has Trotsky and the Russian Socialist Union has descended into warlordism.
m. China is somewhat unified under Sun Yat Sen.

This all happens because TR jumps into the European War as soon as the French lose the Battle of the Marne.

[miletus12]

Some "maps" to help one understand the WWII environment in the Pacific Ocean. Why did the war assume the shape it did?



Some things of note:
a. Supply lines were not just from the United States. The sea lines of communication stretched for the British from India and from South Africa and the Middle East.
b. "American" supply lines included Australia and New Zealand. Wherever possible, the "allies" used Australian and New Zealand economies and their resources to shorten the length of sea lines of communication and turnaround times for ships. 7,000 nautical miles was shorter than 15,000 nautical miles round trip for rations to the Solomon Islands.
c. Rabaul's loss was a huge Allied mistake in the Pacific war. It took a year and a half to break through New Britian and New Ireland and the Bismark islands barrier. The Japanese had the best anchorage in the region in Rabaul. That place was impossible to neutralize from the air or assault from the sea with the limited forces available in 1943. It was so situated, that the Japanese with a few dozens of planes and a very small fleet of cruisers, destroyers and submarines sheltered in artificial caverns that were dug out of the volcanoes present, at the cost of thousands of Indian, Indonesian, Korean, Filipino, and allied POWs lives could hold up fleets and air forces five times their size for up to two years. That costly delay in time (CARTWHEEL) further allowed the Japanese to strengthen themselves in the Central Pacific and was the actual reason there had to be two drives against the Japanese mounted. If the Japanese had not been engaged immediately in the Solomons, the militarists in Tokyo would have happily forted up the Gilberts and the Marshalls to the point that every coconut treed sandspit atoll would have become a Peleliu or worse. Tarawa was awful enough. The Solomon Islands campaign was a necessary bleed down to make the Central Pacific campaign possible at all.
d. The Japanese, contrary to myth, could and did establish a coastal ASW network of defenses as part of their over all defense scheme in the most vital trade lanes to them, in the waters that ran from western Indonesia to the coasts of the Vietnam, along the Chinese coasts up to Japan. Their air cover was not the best, but it was there. Subchasers and sampan patrols are never mentioned by British commentators when they criticize American and Dutch efforts in Pacific war to interrupt the Japanese sea lines of communications. It was a totally different war from the U-boat war, with different terrain, different traffic patterns and completely different tactics and weather effects from the North Atlantic. Operating a submarine in the shoals and reefs and shallow waters the Japanese favored for merchant traffic routing was akin to fighting in the central Mediterranean. Lots of aircraft to dodge, minefields to avoid and the aforementioned sampans and subchasers to entangle.
e. Which brings up something that few histories of the Pacific war mention; that throughout that coastal network of sea traffic the Japanese ran throughout east Asian waters, they used sampans, junks and small motor Daihatsus to move about 40% of their supplies to their south-sea garrisons. Some Japanese sources chronicle that the Anzacs and Americans destroyed up to 40,000 of these vessels in combat. About 1/3 of them were via air attacks. The rest were PT boats, destroyers and submarines... especially submarines, about 13,000 + victims to gunfire in the South and East China Seas and in Indonesian waters alone.

Weather. 

The common joke is that the Americans seem to have a penchant for running into Pacific typhoons. This was true. They did not have good north Pacific weather reportage until they reached those waters and were able to perform predictive meteorology in late 1944. This was not the North Atlantic where if one wanted to know a storm track, one whistled up the USWS and asked for the latest hurricane information. The whole ocean was dotted with automated American weather buoys from 1938 onward.  From where does one think sonobuoys came?

The north Pacific was Japanese patrolled. Where they could the Americans sent ships and submarines to take intermittent readings, but snapshots of data do not fill in the isobar charts over time. So, Halsey's first warnings came when the barometers on his ships showed low mercury. Oh well. 

While certain historians guffaw over this item, there is the matter of monsoons and earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. If you were MacArthur, Blamey, or Slim (Or Montgomery in Sicily; or Clark in Italy), one paid attention to this kind of weather.  Fighting in continuous downpour, or in high winds, or on a fault line or next to a volcano was no fun. Roads washed out (If there was a road.), planes were grounded, and this 



was your truck and your food.

I kind of feel sorry for Slim. Burma or Myanmar or whatever they call it these days, was especially horrible as to weather effects. Reminds one of Vietnam. However, it was no picnic on the high seas either. Pacific gentler than the Atlantic? Hah. Only if one has never been in the north of the Philippine Islands and close to Japan!