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Post by EwellHolmes on Oct 17, 2019 19:26:30 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 17, 2019 20:06:57 GMT
Nice map, any details about this earth. |
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Post by EwellHolmes on Oct 18, 2019 2:34:26 GMT
Nice map, any details about this earth. In early 1942, IGHQ dangled the possibility of attacking the Soviet Far East as a consolation prize given the cancellation of Kantokuen the previous year left the Kwantung Army very bitter. Here, enterprising officers of that same force start a border war, which sees the IJA, via artillery positions opposite Primorye and limited operations, cut the Trans-Siberian Railway; resource commitments elsewhere prevent the general offensive the Kwantung Army had been really wanting to do. With the loss of 50% of Lend Lease, the USSR collapses in late 1942/early 1943 during the German operations around Stalingrad and in the Caucasus. World War II thus lasts into 1948, with the Reich finally collapsing from massed nuclear bombardment while the Japanese are able to eek out a compromise peace that leaves the "Core Empire" intact. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 18, 2019 8:00:55 GMT
Nice map, any details about this earth. In early 1942, IGHQ dangled the possibility of attacking the Soviet Far East as a consolation prize given the cancellation of Kantokuen the previous year left the Kwantung Army very bitter. Here, enterprising officers of that same force start a border war, which sees the IJA, via artillery positions opposite Primorye and limited operations, cut the Trans-Siberian Railway; resource commitments elsewhere prevent the general offensive the Kwantung Army had been really wanting to do. With the loss of 50% of Lend Lease, the USSR collapses in late 1942/early 1943 during the German operations around Stalingrad and in the Caucasus. World War II thus lasts into 1948, with the Reich finally collapsing from massed nuclear bombardment while the Japanese are able to eek out a compromise peace that leaves the "Core Empire" intact. A thus the Germany first policy also effects this Earth with Japan surviving a little bit stronger than OTL. |
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Post by EwellHolmes on Oct 18, 2019 8:24:55 GMT
In early 1942, IGHQ dangled the possibility of attacking the Soviet Far East as a consolation prize given the cancellation of Kantokuen the previous year left the Kwantung Army very bitter. Here, enterprising officers of that same force start a border war, which sees the IJA, via artillery positions opposite Primorye and limited operations, cut the Trans-Siberian Railway; resource commitments elsewhere prevent the general offensive the Kwantung Army had been really wanting to do. With the loss of 50% of Lend Lease, the USSR collapses in late 1942/early 1943 during the German operations around Stalingrad and in the Caucasus. World War II thus lasts into 1948, with the Reich finally collapsing from massed nuclear bombardment while the Japanese are able to eek out a compromise peace that leaves the "Core Empire" intact. A thus the Germany first policy also effects this Earth with Japan surviving a little bit stronger than OTL. Exactly, yes. For one, I should state this has a historical basis; by 1945, American political and military leaders were seeing signs of war exhaustion leading to the need for a compromise peace combined with a willingness, on the part of some, to readily agree to that. In terms of this alternate history, however, these issues were increased to 11. With the collapse of the USSR, the U.S. had to enact the 250 division mobilization scheme, which meant a reduction in the size of the U.S. Navy as compared to what happened historically during the WWII buildup and thus a slower advance across the Pacific as a result. By the time Germany was forced under, the United States had taken far too many losses and its populace was too ready for peace to want to take the heavy casualties required to bring the Empire of Japan fully down. |
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Post by CastilloVerde on Mar 6, 2020 3:42:27 GMT
There doesn't seem to be that many posts recently. Hopefully I can help change that.   This map depicts the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) and neighbouring states in an alternate 1300. The premise is that the Fourth Crusaders never arrive in Constantinople, sparing the City and her inhabitants from the terrible and tragic sack that shattered the Empire. Instead, the Empire continues onwards without the Fourth Crusade. After Alexios III Angelos dies, the Empire would, over the course of the century gradually expand in Anatolia by taking advantage of the Mongol invasions which devastate the region. The Mongols also attack other countries like Bulgaria as in OTL, which helps relieve the Empire's northern border. The Mongols do not attack the Empire though, due to shrewd diplomacy conducted by the Emperor and Byzantine government (essentially paying off the Mongols in gold, becoming nominal vassals, along with a sending a princess or two). By 1300, the Mongols have split off into the major khanates and the Mamluks have grown in strength in the Levant. Previously posted on AH.com and Deviantart. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 6, 2020 8:58:30 GMT
There doesn't seem to be that many posts recently. Hopefully I can help change that. This map depicts the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) and neighbouring states in an alternate 1300. The premise is that the Fourth Crusaders never arrive in Constantinople, sparing the City and her inhabitants from the terrible and tragic sack that shattered the Empire. Instead, the Empire continues onwards without the Fourth Crusade. After Alexios III Angelos dies, the Empire would, over the course of the century gradually expand in Anatolia by taking advantage of the Mongol invasions which devastate the region. The Mongols also attack other countries like Bulgaria as in OTL, which helps relieve the Empire's northern border. The Mongols do not attack the Empire though, due to shrewd diplomacy conducted by the Emperor and Byzantine government (essentially paying off the Mongols in gold, becoming nominal vassals, along with a sending a princess or two). By 1300, the Mongols have split off into the major khanates and the Mamluks have grown in strength in the Levant. Previously posted on AH.com and Deviantart. Well this is a great map, worthy of a Grand Order of the Master Cartographer. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 6, 2020 10:16:17 GMT
There doesn't seem to be that many posts recently. Hopefully I can help change that. This map depicts the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) and neighbouring states in an alternate 1300. The premise is that the Fourth Crusaders never arrive in Constantinople, sparing the City and her inhabitants from the terrible and tragic sack that shattered the Empire. Instead, the Empire continues onwards without the Fourth Crusade. After Alexios III Angelos dies, the Empire would, over the course of the century gradually expand in Anatolia by taking advantage of the Mongol invasions which devastate the region. The Mongols also attack other countries like Bulgaria as in OTL, which helps relieve the Empire's northern border. The Mongols do not attack the Empire though, due to shrewd diplomacy conducted by the Emperor and Byzantine government (essentially paying off the Mongols in gold, becoming nominal vassals, along with a sending a princess or two). By 1300, the Mongols have split off into the major khanates and the Mamluks have grown in strength in the Levant. Previously posted on AH.com and Deviantart.
Great looking map and good for the Greeks in this. I assume there are still a lot of Turks in Anatolia but probably steadily being converted and absorbed. Is the Il-Khanate still non-Muslim or has it converted as OTL? Just wondering if a revived Byzantium might tempt it toward Orthodox [or some other form of Christianity] or possibly like the Khazar's earlier a third choice. IIRC one of their Khans adopted Buddhism before his successor finally went Muslim.
Assuming they do go Muslim their probably still likely to be fighting the Marluks more than the empire so it might be the basis for a longer term revival.
Of course if the empire has bounced back this far then its likely to be a lot more powerful economically as well, probably largely at the expense of Venice as that won't be able to dominate such a large and powerful state. Plus it will still have control of the northern silk route and access to the Black Sea.
Anyway, can't remember seeing you before today so welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy it here. [Unless of course that's my memory playing up again!]
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 6, 2020 10:20:29 GMT
Anyway, can't remember seeing you before today so welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy it here. [Unless of course that's my memory playing up again!] Your memory is not playing tricks with you stevep, he is fresh from the boat. |
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Post by CastilloVerde on Mar 6, 2020 18:27:29 GMT
Well this is a great map, worthy of a Grand Order of the Master Cartographer. Many thanks!
Great looking map and good for the Greeks in this. I assume there are still a lot of Turks in Anatolia but probably steadily being converted and absorbed. Is the Il-Khanate still non-Muslim or has it converted as OTL? Just wondering if a revived Byzantium might tempt it toward Orthodox [or some other form of Christianity] or possibly like the Khazar's earlier a third choice. IIRC one of their Khans adopted Buddhism before his successor finally went Muslim.
Assuming they do go Muslim their probably still likely to be fighting the Marluks more than the empire so it might be the basis for a longer term revival.
Of course if the empire has bounced back this far then its likely to be a lot more powerful economically as well, probably largely at the expense of Venice as that won't be able to dominate such a large and powerful state. Plus it will still have control of the northern silk route and access to the Black Sea.
Anyway, can't remember seeing you before today so welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy it here. [Unless of course that's my memory playing up again!]
Steve Thank you for the reply. Honestly, I haven't really thought that much about the finer details of the scenario. I would assume, however, that there are still Turks in Anatolia where they are steadily converted and absorbed, as you mentioned. Regarding the Il-Khans, by now they would most likely be Muslim and would be fighting the Mamluks as well. I haven't thought that much about the Venetians, but they would probably be much weaker that in OTL without the large revenues from the Black Sea trade. Thank you for the welcome! |
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Post by EwellHolmes on May 18, 2020 23:38:10 GMT
 PoD: Stonewall Jackson isn't killed at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but instead is wounded and returns to active duty in charge of II Corps by September, 1863. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia is thereafter is able to win a decisive Battle of Bristoe Station in October, resulting in Anglo-French intervention and Northern war weariness forcing an end to the conflict. The Confederates thereafter have over a decade to get their debt paid off and rebuild. E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off, while Cuba is purchased from Spain. Meanwhile in the United States, as a consequence of the war, West Point is shut down; there was a movement to do this IOTL due to the high number of ex-cadets that joined the CSA. By 1875, the C.S. Army has the better officer corps (The Citadel and VMI) as well as better trained infantry (Slave Patrol Militia system) and the more modern artillery due to the Armstrongs. The U.S. meanwhile has the larger overall force, in both Army and Navy, and the better small arms due to their larger industrial base. Anyway, in 1876 the Emperor Maxmillian dies without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile). The Mexican Liberals have long been defeated but the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico unstable and in a power vacuum. The Confederate States thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy. This emerges as a campaign issue for the upcoming 1876 Election in the U.S. and the incumbent Presidency attempts to use it to his advantage, with this resulting in both nations blundering into a war. The U.S. has the numbers and logistics, so it gradually is able to advance into the CSA steadily but at great cost, due to the quality of the C.S. Army and its advantage in artillery. Ultimately, between the increased demands of the war on railway traffic and political dissatisfaction at the high casualties being taken for an unpopular cause, the 1877 Railway Strikes spark off and are worse than IOTL. With the collapse in their logistics system, the U.S. Army comes to a halt in its advance and the Confederates are able to encircle and destroy several elements in their own ATL Sedan. Adding to the woes of the American military is the need to divert formations to put down communes in cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago and others. In the end, Washington is forced to sue for peace, ending the war with the Confederate annexation of Mexico recognized. From there on, both the C.S. and the U.S. seek to achieve and maintain good ties, as the cost of war for both is recognized as just not worth it. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2020 17:52:08 GMT
PoD: Stonewall Jackson isn't killed at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but instead is wounded and returns to active duty in charge of II Corps by September, 1863. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia is thereafter is able to win a decisive Battle of Bristoe Station in October, resulting in Anglo-French intervention and Northern war weariness forcing an end to the conflict. The Confederates thereafter have over a decade to get their debt paid off and rebuild. E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off, while Cuba is purchased from Spain. Meanwhile in the United States, as a consequence of the war, West Point is shut down; there was a movement to do this IOTL due to the high number of ex-cadets that joined the CSA. By 1875, the C.S. Army has the better officer corps (The Citadel and VMI) as well as better trained infantry (Slave Patrol Militia system) and the more modern artillery due to the Armstrongs. The U.S. meanwhile has the larger overall force, in both Army and Navy, and the better small arms due to their larger industrial base. Anyway, in 1876 the Emperor Maxmillian dies without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile). The Mexican Liberals have long been defeated but the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico unstable and in a power vacuum. The Confederate States thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy. This emerges as a campaign issue for the upcoming 1876 Election in the U.S. and the incumbent Presidency attempts to use it to his advantage, with this resulting in both nations blundering into a war. The U.S. has the numbers and logistics, so it gradually is able to advance into the CSA steadily but at great cost, due to the quality of the C.S. Army and its advantage in artillery. Ultimately, between the increased demands of the war on railway traffic and political dissatisfaction at the high casualties being taken for an unpopular cause, the 1877 Railway Strikes spark off and are worse than IOTL. With the collapse in their logistics system, the U.S. Army comes to a halt in its advance and the Confederates are able to encircle and destroy several elements in their own ATL Sedan. Adding to the woes of the American military is the need to divert formations to put down communes in cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago and others. In the end, Washington is forced to sue for peace, ending the war with the Confederate annexation of Mexico recognized. From there on, both the C.S. and the U.S. seek to achieve and maintain good ties, as the cost of war for both is recognized as just not worth it. Nice map, but the question about Maximilian I of Mexico dying without a heir is not true i believe as he and his wife adopted y adopted Agustín de Iturbide y Green and his cousin Salvador de Iturbide y de Marzán, both grandsons of Agustín de Iturbide, who had briefly reigned as Emperor of Mexico in the 1820s. Iturbide and his cousin were granted the title Prince de Iturbide and the style of Highness by an imperial decree of 16 September 1865, and were ranked next in line after the reigning family. Apparently, the royal couple intended to groom Agustín as heir to the throne. |
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Post by EwellHolmes on May 19, 2020 23:52:00 GMT
PoD: Stonewall Jackson isn't killed at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but instead is wounded and returns to active duty in charge of II Corps by September, 1863. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia is thereafter is able to win a decisive Battle of Bristoe Station in October, resulting in Anglo-French intervention and Northern war weariness forcing an end to the conflict. The Confederates thereafter have over a decade to get their debt paid off and rebuild. E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off, while Cuba is purchased from Spain. Meanwhile in the United States, as a consequence of the war, West Point is shut down; there was a movement to do this IOTL due to the high number of ex-cadets that joined the CSA. By 1875, the C.S. Army has the better officer corps (The Citadel and VMI) as well as better trained infantry (Slave Patrol Militia system) and the more modern artillery due to the Armstrongs. The U.S. meanwhile has the larger overall force, in both Army and Navy, and the better small arms due to their larger industrial base. Anyway, in 1876 the Emperor Maxmillian dies without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile). The Mexican Liberals have long been defeated but the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico unstable and in a power vacuum. The Confederate States thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy. This emerges as a campaign issue for the upcoming 1876 Election in the U.S. and the incumbent Presidency attempts to use it to his advantage, with this resulting in both nations blundering into a war. The U.S. has the numbers and logistics, so it gradually is able to advance into the CSA steadily but at great cost, due to the quality of the C.S. Army and its advantage in artillery. Ultimately, between the increased demands of the war on railway traffic and political dissatisfaction at the high casualties being taken for an unpopular cause, the 1877 Railway Strikes spark off and are worse than IOTL. With the collapse in their logistics system, the U.S. Army comes to a halt in its advance and the Confederates are able to encircle and destroy several elements in their own ATL Sedan. Adding to the woes of the American military is the need to divert formations to put down communes in cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago and others. In the end, Washington is forced to sue for peace, ending the war with the Confederate annexation of Mexico recognized. From there on, both the C.S. and the U.S. seek to achieve and maintain good ties, as the cost of war for both is recognized as just not worth it. Nice map, but the question about Maximilian I of Mexico dying without a heir is not true i believe as he and his wife adopted y adopted Agustín de Iturbide y Green and his cousin Salvador de Iturbide y de Marzán, both grandsons of Agustín de Iturbide, who had briefly reigned as Emperor of Mexico in the 1820s. Iturbide and his cousin were granted the title Prince de Iturbide and the style of Highness by an imperial decree of 16 September 1865, and were ranked next in line after the reigning family. Apparently, the royal couple intended to groom Agustín as heir to the throne. Maximilian never really intended to give the crown to the Iturbides because he believed that they were not of royal blood.[36] It was all a charade directed at his brother Archduke Karl Ludwig of Austria, as Maximilian explained himself: either Karl would give him one of his sons as an heir, or else he would bequeath everything to the Iturbide children.[36] |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 20, 2020 3:48:35 GMT
PoD: Stonewall Jackson isn't killed at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but instead is wounded and returns to active duty in charge of II Corps by September, 1863. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia is thereafter is able to win a decisive Battle of Bristoe Station in October, resulting in Anglo-French intervention and Northern war weariness forcing an end to the conflict. The Confederates thereafter have over a decade to get their debt paid off and rebuild. E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off, while Cuba is purchased from Spain. Meanwhile in the United States, as a consequence of the war, West Point is shut down; there was a movement to do this IOTL due to the high number of ex-cadets that joined the CSA. By 1875, the C.S. Army has the better officer corps (The Citadel and VMI) as well as better trained infantry (Slave Patrol Militia system) and the more modern artillery due to the Armstrongs. The U.S. meanwhile has the larger overall force, in both Army and Navy, and the better small arms due to their larger industrial base. Anyway, in 1876 the Emperor Maxmillian dies without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile). The Mexican Liberals have long been defeated but the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico unstable and in a power vacuum. The Confederate States thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy. This emerges as a campaign issue for the upcoming 1876 Election in the U.S. and the incumbent Presidency attempts to use it to his advantage, with this resulting in both nations blundering into a war. The U.S. has the numbers and logistics, so it gradually is able to advance into the CSA steadily but at great cost, due to the quality of the C.S. Army and its advantage in artillery. Ultimately, between the increased demands of the war on railway traffic and political dissatisfaction at the high casualties being taken for an unpopular cause, the 1877 Railway Strikes spark off and are worse than IOTL. With the collapse in their logistics system, the U.S. Army comes to a halt in its advance and the Confederates are able to encircle and destroy several elements in their own ATL Sedan. Adding to the woes of the American military is the need to divert formations to put down communes in cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago and others. In the end, Washington is forced to sue for peace, ending the war with the Confederate annexation of Mexico recognized. From there on, both the C.S. and the U.S. seek to achieve and maintain good ties, as the cost of war for both is recognized as just not worth it. So how did the CSA get Cuba, are Porto Rico, Guam and the Philippines still Spanish are did we see a joint USA/CSA war against Spain with Guam and the Philippines ending up becoming USA territories. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 20, 2020 11:25:43 GMT
PoD: Stonewall Jackson isn't killed at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but instead is wounded and returns to active duty in charge of II Corps by September, 1863. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia is thereafter is able to win a decisive Battle of Bristoe Station in October, resulting in Anglo-French intervention and Northern war weariness forcing an end to the conflict. The Confederates thereafter have over a decade to get their debt paid off and rebuild. E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off, while Cuba is purchased from Spain. Meanwhile in the United States, as a consequence of the war, West Point is shut down; there was a movement to do this IOTL due to the high number of ex-cadets that joined the CSA. By 1875, the C.S. Army has the better officer corps (The Citadel and VMI) as well as better trained infantry (Slave Patrol Militia system) and the more modern artillery due to the Armstrongs. The U.S. meanwhile has the larger overall force, in both Army and Navy, and the better small arms due to their larger industrial base. Anyway, in 1876 the Emperor Maxmillian dies without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile). The Mexican Liberals have long been defeated but the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico unstable and in a power vacuum. The Confederate States thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy. This emerges as a campaign issue for the upcoming 1876 Election in the U.S. and the incumbent Presidency attempts to use it to his advantage, with this resulting in both nations blundering into a war. The U.S. has the numbers and logistics, so it gradually is able to advance into the CSA steadily but at great cost, due to the quality of the C.S. Army and its advantage in artillery. Ultimately, between the increased demands of the war on railway traffic and political dissatisfaction at the high casualties being taken for an unpopular cause, the 1877 Railway Strikes spark off and are worse than IOTL. With the collapse in their logistics system, the U.S. Army comes to a halt in its advance and the Confederates are able to encircle and destroy several elements in their own ATL Sedan. Adding to the woes of the American military is the need to divert formations to put down communes in cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago and others. In the end, Washington is forced to sue for peace, ending the war with the Confederate annexation of Mexico recognized. From there on, both the C.S. and the U.S. seek to achieve and maintain good ties, as the cost of war for both is recognized as just not worth it. So how did the CSA get Cuba, are Porto Rico, Guam and the Philippines still Spanish are did we see a joint USA/CSA war against Spain with Guam and the Philippines ending up becoming USA territories.
I think EwellHolmes, is working from his posts in the underused 1000-1900 PODs, see page 12 of that thread. Not only does he assume a decisive victory for the CSA in late 1863 but also the later invasion of Cuba [and probably Puerto Rico] is successful because the 3rd Carlist war takes the same path as OTL, leading to Spain being in chaos and that no other power opposes the conquest. - Although in the above post he's changed that to the purchase of Cuba, from one or other Spanish faction?
Furthermore he assumes that Maximilian's regime limps on without French support and when he dies at the age of 44 its without an heir and the south is able to annex it. This leads to war with the north but the latter is defeated. [He has some assumptions mentioned above which may not be accurate. Forces on a Slave Patrol Militia won't necessarily make good infantry in a full scale battle and the fact that the south boosts its artillery is an incentive for the north to do likewise.] Plus the liberals were still successfully resisting the imperials and once the French forces withdraw, in part due to American pressure and also to Napoleon's growing fears about Prussia - which in 1866 by its defeat of Austria and other German states became the primary challenge to the French position in Europe.
As I said in that thread I can't see it actually happening and if they do manage to take over most of Mexico without the latter receiving direct military support its likely to be a hell of a resource sink for them, probably leading to a collapse of the empire in a decade or two at most.
Steve
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