Drachinifel - naval history

[lordroel]

Mini Drachinifel - naval history - Imperial Germany list Part II

SMS Moltke - Drachinifel - naval history - 13



SMS Nassau - Drachinifel - naval history - 14



SMS Scharnhorst - Drachinifel - naval history - 15



SMS Brandenburg - Drachinifel - naval history - 16



SMS Helgoland - Drachinifel - naval history - 17

[lordroel]

What went wrong in Norway? - Some Very Norsepicious Plans - Drachinifel - naval history - 18

[stevep]

May 13, 2020 15:53:00 GMT lordroel said:

What went wrong in Norway? - Some Very Norsepicious Plans - Drachinifel - naval history - 18

  lordroel,

  I actually saw this last night and very interesting.  There was a very close thing where if HMS Glowworm hadn't briefly got detached in bad weather things might have gone far, far better for both the RN and the Norwegians.  Possibly even a total defeat of the German invasion.  Wouldn't have affected the fall of France, unless there was a sudden coup against Hitler which would seen unlikely, so things would be difficult for the allies but could have seen the German fleet pretty much annihilated and saved a number of RN ships as well as having the Norwegians and British still fighting on in a fairly secure position in the north.

  Of course one butterfly which wasn't mentioned in the video was that the OTL disaster in Norway was the last straw for the Chamberlain government.  If its seen as a success or even a good performance by British forces then its likely to linger on until the collapse of France so that might mean that Churchill might not be the next PM.  Chamberlain wouldn't last much longer because he was already dying of cancer although he wasn't aware of it yet.

  Steve

[lordroel]

May 14, 2020 9:07:04 GMT stevep said:

May 13, 2020 15:53:00 GMT lordroel said:

What went wrong in Norway? - Some Very Norsepicious Plans - Drachinifel - naval history - 18

  lordroel,

  I actually saw this last night and very interesting.  There was a very close thing where if HMS Glowworm hadn't briefly got detached in bad weather things might have gone far, far better for both the RN and the Norwegians.  Possibly even a total defeat of the German invasion.  Wouldn't have affected the fall of France, unless there was a sudden coup against Hitler which would seen unlikely, so things would be difficult for the allies but could have seen the German fleet pretty much annihilated and saved a number of RN ships as well as having the Norwegians and British still fighting on in a fairly secure position in the north.

  Of course one butterfly which wasn't mentioned in the video was that the OTL disaster in Norway was the last straw for the Chamberlain government.  If its seen as a success or even a good performance by British forces then its likely to linger on until the collapse of France so that might mean that Churchill might not be the next PM.  Chamberlain wouldn't last much longer because he was already dying of cancer although he wasn't aware of it yet.

  Steve

Poor Glowworm, it became target practice for Admiral Hipper.

[lordroel]

KMS Bismarck - Drachinifel - naval history - 19

[lordroel]

Mini Drachinifel - naval history - Never where British designs

N3 class - naval history - 20



G3 class - naval history - 21

[stevep]

Jun 7, 2020 7:53:52 GMT lordroel said:

Mini Drachinifel - naval history - Never where British designs

N3 class - naval history - 20



G3 class - naval history - 21

  lordroel ,

  Being something of a naval addict I've seen them before and actually re-watched the G3 one the other day.  Probably the most frustrating naval what if of the 20thC for Britain and why I think the WNT was a bloody disaster for Britain.  Not sure if the N3's would have been that practical and also their lack of speed would have been a problem.  Must preferred another group of 4 [or more] G3 instead.  Would have made a hell of a difference in WWII even without the knock on strategic effect of maintaining key areas of construction.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Jun 7, 2020 14:15:39 GMT stevep said:

Jun 7, 2020 7:53:52 GMT lordroel said:

Mini Drachinifel - naval history - Never where British designs

N3 class - naval history - 20



G3 class - naval history - 21

  lordroel ,

  Being something of a naval addict I've seen them before and actually re-watched the G3 one the other day.  Probably the most frustrating naval what if of the 20thC for Britain and why I think the WNT was a bloody disaster for Britain.  Not sure if the N3's would have been that practical and also their lack of speed would have been a problem.  Must preferred another group of 4 [or more] G3 instead.  Would have made a hell of a difference in WWII even without the knock on strategic effect of maintaining key areas of construction.

  Steve

But building the N3 and G3s would that mean we would not see some of the OTL designs that where build enter into service.

[stevep]

Jun 7, 2020 14:21:09 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 7, 2020 14:15:39 GMT stevep said:

  lordroel ,

  Being something of a naval addict I've seen them before and actually re-watched the G3 one the other day.  Probably the most frustrating naval what if of the 20thC for Britain and why I think the WNT was a bloody disaster for Britain.  Not sure if the N3's would have been that practical and also their lack of speed would have been a problem.  Must preferred another group of 4 [or more] G3 instead.  Would have made a hell of a difference in WWII even without the knock on strategic effect of maintaining key areas of construction.

  Steve

But building the N3 and G3s would that mean we would not see some of the OTL designs that where build enter into service.

  There would be huge butterflies.  With no treaty then its likely that while the main power production of capital ships wouldn't change greatly that for the big three would had been drastically different.  If there continues to be no treaty - as its possible a treaty might be agreed at a later stage - then if WWII still comes along the new ships produced for Britain, the US and Japan would be noticeably bigger than OTL due to the size of existing ships and the experience of building such.  Possible exception here would be the Yamato's as I think Japan even with elements of the 8:8 programme completed would struggle to build much larger.  For the minor powers, i.e. France, Italy and Germany especially their not likely to build any more or any larger than OTL.

[lordroel]

Jun 7, 2020 15:10:39 GMT stevep said:

Jun 7, 2020 14:21:09 GMT lordroel said:

But building the N3 and G3s would that mean we would not see some of the OTL designs that where build enter into service.

  There would be huge butterflies.  With no treaty then its likely that while the main power production of capital ships wouldn't change greatly that for the big three would had been drastically different.  If there continues to be no treaty - as its possible a treaty might be agreed at a later stage - then if WWII still comes along the new ships produced for Britain, the US and Japan would be noticeably bigger than OTL due to the size of existing ships and the experience of building such.  Possible exception here would be the Yamato's as I think Japan even with elements of the 8:8 programme completed would struggle to build much larger.  For the minor powers, i.e. France, Italy and Germany especially their not likely to build any more or any larger than OTL.

Well i think you mentioned it somewhere on the forum that Japan would ho bankrupt if they tried to keep pace with the United States and the United Kingdom.

[stevep]

Jun 7, 2020 15:13:55 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 7, 2020 15:10:39 GMT stevep said:

  There would be huge butterflies.  With no treaty then its likely that while the main power production of capital ships wouldn't change greatly that for the big three would had been drastically different.  If there continues to be no treaty - as its possible a treaty might be agreed at a later stage - then if WWII still comes along the new ships produced for Britain, the US and Japan would be noticeably bigger than OTL due to the size of existing ships and the experience of building such.  Possible exception here would be the Yamato's as I think Japan even with elements of the 8:8 programme completed would struggle to build much larger.  For the minor powers, i.e. France, Italy and Germany especially their not likely to build any more or any larger than OTL.

Well i think you mentioned it somewhere on the forum that Japan would ho bankrupt if they tried to keep pace with the United States and the United Kingdom.

  Very likely, especially with the 1923 earthquake.  They simply didn't have the economic base at the time for such a massive programme.  Trying to complete the programme could have resulted in a reaction against militarism, or at least the navy and coupled with the continuation of the alliance with Britain might have lead to a more liberal Japan.  Even if it still went off the rails as OTL while its battle fleet will be somewhat bigger it probably won't have anything like the CV force of OTL and is likely to be short of lighter escort and scouting units.  If Britain builds at a slow and steady rate during the 20's, say 8-12 new ships over that period its likely to build as many ships as Japan and they will be newer and due to British experience in WWI and post-war tests better in design.  Not to mention the much superior British position compared to its European rivals. 

  The US had the economy but lacked the will and there was already talk of ending the programme which Congress had had on a slow drip feed for the last couple of years.  [Part of the problem here as I understand it is that whereas the purchase system in Britain was for ships, i.e. when the 4 G3s were approved all funds were set aside for them, in the US Congress allocated a budget for each year and the navy had to allocate there for their operations, including construction under way that year.  As such their ships weren't paid for the year they were ordered but over the years of constructions,.  Hence if Congress cut the budget in a year the navy would have to either cancel or delay construction].  As such if the USN had managed to complete all 16 planned ships they might not have been finished until the mid or even late 20's.

[lordroel]

The Great White Fleet - The Party is On! - naval history - 21

[stevep]

Jun 10, 2020 13:51:44 GMT lordroel said:

The Great White Fleet - The Party is On! - naval history - 21

  lordroel,

  As usual Drachinifel is both informative and amusing in his presentations.  Love the bit where the admirals are telling Roosevelt their against the mission as it might highlight problems and shortcomings and him pointing out it was better to do this in peacetime rather than during an actual war.  Also the exchange between Roosevelt and the Senator from Maine.  I do wonder what happened to that Australian they acquired however?  Did he ever manage to hop back home.

  Steve

[lordroel]

Jun 11, 2020 12:12:42 GMT stevep said:

Jun 10, 2020 13:51:44 GMT lordroel said:

The Great White Fleet - The Party is On! - naval history - 21

  lordroel,

  As usual Drachinifel is both informative and amusing in his presentations.  Love the bit where the admirals are telling Roosevelt their against the mission as it might highlight problems and shortcomings and him pointing out it was better to do this in peacetime rather than during an actual war.  Also the exchange between Roosevelt and the Senator from Maine.  I do wonder what happened to that Australian they acquired however?  Did he ever manage to hop back home.

  Steve

To bad he did not mention what the White Fleet was doing their visit to Australia and New Zeeland: What if: United States invasion of New Zealand & Australia

[stevep]

Jun 11, 2020 14:07:26 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 11, 2020 12:12:42 GMT stevep said:

  lordroel ,

  As usual Drachinifel is both informative and amusing in his presentations.  Love the bit where the admirals are telling Roosevelt their against the mission as it might highlight problems and shortcomings and him pointing out it was better to do this in peacetime rather than during an actual war.  Also the exchange between Roosevelt and the Senator from Maine.  I do wonder what happened to that Australian they acquired however?  Did he ever manage to hop back home.

  Steve

To bad he did not mention what the White Fleet was doing their visit to Australia and New Zeeland: What if: United States invasion of New Zealand & Australia

 Having seen the video possibly the admiral's determination that there would be war with Japan was influenced by the honour he was given there.   It suspect it might have upset him more than he claimed.