Coming soon: 'Burn It All Down'

[James G]

This is a teaser of my upcoming TL.
(there will be a new thread when the story begins)



It is May 4th 1982. Britain and Argentina are involved in an armed conflict concerning sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and other South Atlantic islands. Shots have already been exchanged and blood has been spilt. This afternoon, following a failed morning attack against the Task Force to do the same thing then, the Argentine Navy’s aviation striking arm – the 2nd Naval Attack Squadron – gets lucky and a pair of Super Étendard strike aircraft slot through the Royal Navy’s air defences to tear low across the water towards the ‘big ships’ present. One of those is HMS Hermes, the largest of the two aircraft carriers from which currently out-of-position Sea Harrier fighters are flying. Launches are made of Exocet anti-ship missiles towards the Hermes: one from each Argentine aircraft before they turn away without the pilots knowing whether they hit anything. Only later, long after they reach their temporary home at the Rio Grande airbase in Tierra Fuego, will they find out that the Exocets did their job and they are heroes for their nation.

Contradictory warnings come from the destroyers HMS Coventry and HMS Glasgow over the threat from the Super Étendards and the Exocets. Only at the very last moment, long after the attackers have turned away and the missiles are inbound upon their prey, is it understood what is happening. By then, it is far too late to do anything substantial. No last-ditch defences are employed and the barest of warnings within the carrier is broadcast to her crew. Posted lookouts can only shout a verbal alarm. The Exocets strike the Hermes. The carrier will soon be engulfed in flames, burning from bow to stern.

Only one missile warhead detonates – with terrible consequences – but while the second doesn’t, its unspent missile fuel is just as lethal as high explosives. Deep within the bowels of the Hermes are the seats of two initially separate fires which rapidly spread out of control. They join together and rage with fury in the face of every desperate British attempt to bring them under control. Damage control parties and designated firefighters are overwhelmed. Casualties mount. The smoke, rather than the fire itself, gets them as it chokes the lives out of those caught in its path. Evacuation begins when it becomes apparent that all is lost but there is confusion and many, many sailors are left behind in an absolute tragedy. The loss of both primary and reserve electrical power plunge the interior of the ship into darkness to doom them. The Hermes cannot be saved and is going to burn until there is nothing left for the fires to consume. Hundreds of Royal Navy sailors are taken off her to other ships, including to HMS Sheffield, which is a destroyer that was lucky to escape that aborted attack earlier in the day. Hundreds more casualties are left behind though.

In her destruction, Hermes will take the lives of close to five hundred who sailed off to war with her. Such a loss of life is unprecedented in recent times.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 12:15:03 GMT James G said:

This is a teaser of my upcoming TL.
(there will be a new thread when the story begins)



It is May 4th 1982. Britain and Argentina are involved in an armed conflict concerning sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and other South Atlantic islands. Shots have already been exchanged and blood has been spilt. This afternoon, following a failed morning attack against the Task Force to do the same thing then, the Argentine Navy’s aviation striking arm – the 2nd Naval Attack Squadron – gets lucky and a pair of Super Étendard strike aircraft slot through the Royal Navy’s air defences to tear low across the water towards the ‘big ships’ present. One of those is HMS Hermes, the largest of the two aircraft carriers from which currently out-of-position Sea Harrier fighters are flying. Launches are made of Exocet anti-ship missiles towards the Hermes: one from each Argentine aircraft before they turn away without the pilots knowing whether they hit anything. Only later, long after they reach their temporary home at the Rio Grande airbase in Tierra Fuego, will they find out that the Exocets did their job and they are heroes for their nation.

Contradictory warnings come from the destroyers HMS Coventry and HMS Glasgow over the threat from the Super Étendards and the Exocets. Only at the very last moment, long after the attackers have turned away and the missiles are inbound upon their prey, is it understood what is happening. By then, it is far too late to do anything substantial. No last-ditch defences are employed and the barest of warnings within the carrier is broadcast to her crew. Posted lookouts can only shout a verbal alarm. The Exocets strike the Hermes. The carrier will soon be engulfed in flames, burning from bow to stern.

Only one missile warhead detonates – with terrible consequences – but while the second doesn’t, its unspent missile fuel is just as lethal as high explosives. Deep within the bowels of the Hermes are the seats of two initially separate fires which rapidly spread out of control. They join together and rage with fury in the face of every desperate British attempt to bring them under control. Damage control parties and designated firefighters are overwhelmed. Casualties mount. The smoke, rather than the fire itself, gets them as it chokes the lives out of those caught in its path. Evacuation begins when it becomes apparent that all is lost but there is confusion and many, many sailors are left behind in an absolute tragedy. The loss of both primary and reserve electrical power plunge the interior of the ship into darkness to doom them. The Hermes cannot be saved and is going to burn until there is nothing left for the fires to consume. Hundreds of Royal Navy sailors are taken off her to other ships, including to HMS Sheffield, which is a destroyer that was lucky to escape that aborted attack earlier in the day. Hundreds more casualties are left behind though.

In her destruction, Hermes will take the lives of close to five hundred who sailed off to war with her. Such a loss of life is unprecedented in recent times.

Is the The Royal Navy loses a carrier in the Falklands; the US Navy hands over a replacement? thread you made James G, a clue to this upcoming TL ore just coincidence.

[James G]

Jul 17, 2020 12:17:33 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:15:03 GMT James G said:

This is a teaser of my upcoming TL.
(there will be a new thread when the story begins)



It is May 4th 1982. Britain and Argentina are involved in an armed conflict concerning sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and other South Atlantic islands. Shots have already been exchanged and blood has been spilt. This afternoon, following a failed morning attack against the Task Force to do the same thing then, the Argentine Navy’s aviation striking arm – the 2nd Naval Attack Squadron – gets lucky and a pair of Super Étendard strike aircraft slot through the Royal Navy’s air defences to tear low across the water towards the ‘big ships’ present. One of those is HMS Hermes, the largest of the two aircraft carriers from which currently out-of-position Sea Harrier fighters are flying. Launches are made of Exocet anti-ship missiles towards the Hermes: one from each Argentine aircraft before they turn away without the pilots knowing whether they hit anything. Only later, long after they reach their temporary home at the Rio Grande airbase in Tierra Fuego, will they find out that the Exocets did their job and they are heroes for their nation.

Contradictory warnings come from the destroyers HMS Coventry and HMS Glasgow over the threat from the Super Étendards and the Exocets. Only at the very last moment, long after the attackers have turned away and the missiles are inbound upon their prey, is it understood what is happening. By then, it is far too late to do anything substantial. No last-ditch defences are employed and the barest of warnings within the carrier is broadcast to her crew. Posted lookouts can only shout a verbal alarm. The Exocets strike the Hermes. The carrier will soon be engulfed in flames, burning from bow to stern.

Only one missile warhead detonates – with terrible consequences – but while the second doesn’t, its unspent missile fuel is just as lethal as high explosives. Deep within the bowels of the Hermes are the seats of two initially separate fires which rapidly spread out of control. They join together and rage with fury in the face of every desperate British attempt to bring them under control. Damage control parties and designated firefighters are overwhelmed. Casualties mount. The smoke, rather than the fire itself, gets them as it chokes the lives out of those caught in its path. Evacuation begins when it becomes apparent that all is lost but there is confusion and many, many sailors are left behind in an absolute tragedy. The loss of both primary and reserve electrical power plunge the interior of the ship into darkness to doom them. The Hermes cannot be saved and is going to burn until there is nothing left for the fires to consume. Hundreds of Royal Navy sailors are taken off her to other ships, including to HMS Sheffield, which is a destroyer that was lucky to escape that aborted attack earlier in the day. Hundreds more casualties are left behind though.

In her destruction, Hermes will take the lives of close to five hundred who sailed off to war with her. Such a loss of life is unprecedented in recent times.

Is the The Royal Navy loses a carrier in the Falklands; the US Navy hands over a replacement? thread you made James G , a clue to this upcoming TL ore just coincidence.

There will be no loaning of a carrier in this tale. I was just reading about that. So, not a coincidence but not key to what I plan to write either.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 12:23:51 GMT James G said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:17:33 GMT lordroel said:

Is the The Royal Navy loses a carrier in the Falklands; the US Navy hands over a replacement? thread you made James G , a clue to this upcoming TL ore just coincidence.

There will be no loaning of a carrier in this tale. I was just reading about that. So, not a coincidence but not key to what I plan to write either.

So a more bloody Falklands War then without a American help then.

[James G]

Jul 17, 2020 12:24:58 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:23:51 GMT James G said:

There will be no loaning of a carrier in this tale. I was just reading about that. So, not a coincidence but not key to what I plan to write either.

So a more bloody Falklands War then without a American help then.

No, the story is about something else following on for this: domestic effects in Britain after this.
I'll let you know details closer to when I am ready to start properly.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 12:27:40 GMT James G said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:24:58 GMT lordroel said:

So a more bloody Falklands War then without a American help then.

No, the story is about something else following on for this: domestic effects in Britain after this.
I'll let you know details closer to when I am ready to start properly.

Well then, the only thing to do is wait until you start another great TL of yours.

[oscssw]

Jul 17, 2020 12:27:40 GMT James G said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:24:58 GMT lordroel said:

So a more bloody Falklands War then without a American help then.

No, the story is about something else following on for this: domestic effects in Britain after this.
I'll let you know details closer to when I am ready to start properly.

Too bad an alternate Falklands story would be intriguing for me.  

I remember being in the Goat locker when the Argies took the Falklands.  The consensus was, because of the run down of the RN and the scrapping of their conventional Carriers, the Brits were toast. There was one dissenting vote and he was so adamant he was willing to back up his words by taking on all bets.   He cleaned up.

At that time we did not know much about the Harrier and could not imagine it could take on the Argi jets, especially without AEW support.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 13:54:13 GMT oscssw said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:27:40 GMT James G said:

No, the story is about something else following on for this: domestic effects in Britain after this.
I'll let you know details closer to when I am ready to start properly.

Too bad an alternate Falklands story would be intriguing for me.  

I remember being in the Goat locker when the Argies took the Falklands.  The consensus was, because of the run down of the RN and the scrapping of their conventional Carriers, the Brits were toast. There was one dissenting vote and he was so adamant he was willing to back up his words by taking on all bets.   He cleaned up.

At that time we did not know much about the Harrier and could not imagine it could take on the Argi jets, especially without AEW support.

There is always Lion Resurgent by Stuart Slade and i think one ore two TLs that are good that are on AH.com.

[oscssw]

Jul 17, 2020 14:25:11 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 17, 2020 13:54:13 GMT oscssw said:

Too bad an alternate Falklands story would be intriguing for me.  

I remember being in the Goat locker when the Argies took the Falklands.  The consensus was, because of the run down of the RN and the scrapping of their conventional Carriers, the Brits were toast. There was one dissenting vote and he was so adamant he was willing to back up his words by taking on all bets.   He cleaned up.

At that time we did not know much about the Harrier and could not imagine it could take on the Argi jets, especially without AEW support.

There is always Lion Resurgent by Stuart Slade and i think one ore two TLs that are good that are on AH.com.

Thanks Lordroel.  I'll look into that.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 14:42:02 GMT oscssw said:

Jul 17, 2020 14:25:11 GMT lordroel said:

There is always Lion Resurgent by Stuart Slade and i think one ore two TLs that are good that are on AH.com.

Thanks Lordroel.  I'll look into that.

I think they are called HMS EAGLE in the Falklands and The Fireflies Of Port Stanley

[forcon]

I think I know just what those domestic effects on Britain will be...

Looking forward to it.

[lordroel]

Jul 17, 2020 17:46:07 GMT forcon said:

I think I know just what those domestic effects on Britain will be...

Looking forward to it.

Are we speaking Civil War effects forcon.

[forcon]

Jul 17, 2020 17:54:03 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 17, 2020 17:46:07 GMT forcon said:

I think I know just what those domestic effects on Britain will be...

Looking forward to it.

Are we speaking Civil War effects forcon .

Well, that would be telling.

[stevep]

Jul 17, 2020 17:54:03 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 17, 2020 17:46:07 GMT forcon said:

I think I know just what those domestic effects on Britain will be...

Looking forward to it.

Are we speaking Civil War effects forcon .

  Well we're got a deeply unpopular PM who has sought to divide and weaken the country and who how has presided over what might be a military disaster, leaving British citizens in the hands of a brutal dictatorship.  On the other side the Labour party has been largely taken over by the harder elements of the left with Michael Foot's disasterous and deeply unpopular policies, including unilateral disarmament, which will go down like a lead balloon after such a defeat.  In the centre the alliance has been formed and had widespread popular support at this stage.

  Its probable that either:

a)  Thatcher would be force to resign by her party.  That would remove some of the stain for the defeat and also her policies and the economic devastation they were causing.  However it would depend on who the Tories selected to replace her.

or

b)  The next election would leave a hung parliament.  Quite possibly despite the money and influence available to the Tories and the distorted electoral system with the Alliance being the biggest party.  Which would mean a fair amount of political disorder - by which I mean in government and local politics while a new balance was sorted out.  If Thatcher hadn't gone before she would be removed then.  Not sure what would happen inside the Labour party but its likely to come 3rd in both votes and probably seats.  However barring considerable oddities you could see a fairly rapid economic and social recovery.  There are a lot of people looking for work, a lot of things that need doing and with North Sea oil coming in the cash to help rebuild Britain's economic and infrastructure base.  Or at least a good proportion of it.

  However from past experience of James's stories I can't see it going anything like that well.

  Steve

[James G]

Jul 17, 2020 13:54:13 GMT oscssw said:

Jul 17, 2020 12:27:40 GMT James G said:

No, the story is about something else following on for this: domestic effects in Britain after this.
I'll let you know details closer to when I am ready to start properly.

Too bad an alternate Falklands story would be intriguing for me.  

I remember being in the Goat locker when the Argies took the Falklands.  The consensus was, because of the run down of the RN and the scrapping of their conventional Carriers, the Brits were toast. There was one dissenting vote and he was so adamant he was willing to back up his words by taking on all bets.   He cleaned up.

At that time we did not know much about the Harrier and could not imagine it could take on the Argi jets, especially without AEW support.

Ah, sorry. An alternate Falklands is a good idea though not something I would have much interest in.
Luck won the war for the British. Yes, they had so many advantages but they also restricted themselves and that gave Argentina a chance.
The Argentinian air force spent much of the war putting up a poor show with their fighters - though did some good work with Learjets used as Harrier bait to draw away fighters - but the Navy's air arm was capable of getting lucky in the right circumstances.

Jul 17, 2020 17:46:07 GMT forcon said:

I think I know just what those domestic effects on Britain will be...

Looking forward to it.

Unfortunately, that isn't going to be the case. There is much in common with that failed effort on ah.com years ago where I went for a civil war but it just seemed then, and now, too impossible. Serious domestic violent disturbances and political turmoil are on the cards but not full on civil war.

Jul 18, 2020 10:48:06 GMT stevep said:

  Well we're got a deeply unpopular PM who has sought to divide and weaken the country and who how has presided over what might be a military disaster, leaving British citizens in the hands of a brutal dictatorship.  On the other side the Labour party has been largely taken over by the harder elements of the left with Michael Foot's disasterous and deeply unpopular policies, including unilateral disarmament, which will go down like a lead balloon after such a defeat.  In the centre the alliance has been formed and had widespread popular support at this stage.

  Its probable that either:

a)  Thatcher would be force to resign by her party.  That would remove some of the stain for the defeat and also her policies and the economic devastation they were causing.  However it would depend on who the Tories selected to replace her.

or

b)  The next election would leave a hung parliament.  Quite possibly despite the money and influence available to the Tories and the distorted electoral system with the Alliance being the biggest party.  Which would mean a fair amount of political disorder - by which I mean in government and local politics while a new balance was sorted out.  If Thatcher hadn't gone before she would be removed then.  Not sure what would happen inside the Labour party but its likely to come 3rd in both votes and probably seats.  However barring considerable oddities you could see a fairly rapid economic and social recovery.  There are a lot of people looking for work, a lot of things that need doing and with North Sea oil coming in the cash to help rebuild Britain's economic and infrastructure base.  Or at least a good proportion of it.

  However from past experience of James's stories I can't see it going anything like that well.

  Steve

Some of this we will see, others not. The situation which will come about this inciting incident will mirror in some ways, diverge in others, from the early 80s situation in the UK. There is so much there to work with.