The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered

[stevep]

Feb 26, 2021 13:15:13 GMT lordroel said:

Task Force 45 and the Italian Campaign - episode - 61

  Interesting.  Makes it sound almost like a proto-NATO and shows a lot of ingenuity by the people involved.

[lordroel]

Feb 26, 2021 20:47:29 GMT stevep said:

Feb 26, 2021 13:15:13 GMT lordroel said:

Task Force 45 and the Italian Campaign - episode - 61

  Interesting.  Makes it sound almost like a proto-NATO and shows a lot of ingenuity by the people involved.

Where the allies not the start of NATO, most of the western allies plus a part of a defeated Germany and Italy joined NATO.

[stevep]

Feb 26, 2021 20:50:19 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 26, 2021 20:47:29 GMT stevep said:

  Interesting.  Makes it sound almost like a proto-NATO and shows a lot of ingenuity by the people involved.

Where the allies not the start of NATO, most of the western allies plus a part of a defeated Germany and Italy joined NATO.

  True although the trigger for the founding of NATO was the actions of the Soviets after the war ended.  Not sure what if any western alliance would have occurred without that.

  I was thinking more - as much as I was thinking - in terms of multi-national units, i.e. a single unit and a fairly small one, with troops from several different countries.

[lordroel]

Feb 27, 2021 12:31:01 GMT stevep said:

Feb 26, 2021 20:50:19 GMT lordroel said:

Where the allies not the start of NATO, most of the western allies plus a part of a defeated Germany and Italy joined NATO.

  True although the trigger for the founding of NATO was the actions of the Soviets after the war ended.  Not sure what if any western alliance would have occurred without that.

  I was thinking more - as much as I was thinking - in terms of multi-national units, i.e. a single unit and a fairly small one, with troops from several different countries.

True, there where others like the First Special Service Force.

[lordroel]

Three Stories of the Dreaded "88." - episode - 62

[lordroel]

Mae West and the 445th Bombardment Group - episode - 63

[lordroel]

USS Alliance and the Last Battle of the American Revolution - episode - 64

[stevep]

Mar 10, 2021 15:18:48 GMT lordroel said:

USS Alliance and the Last Battle of the American Revolution - episode - 64

  Interesting.  The battle shows how important supplies gold especially were to keep the rebels fighting even at this late stage.  Also shows how much luck paid a part in such activities.  Ironically the US had already signed the peace treaty in Feburary but of course with the slow communications of the time it took a while for people, especially ships on different stations, to be made aware of this.

  I doubt a 66 gun ship would be a frigate.  Suspect the French ship was more likely a 4th rate [IIRC] ship of the line.  Although some of the smaller ships of the line were razzed down by removing the top gun deck to make very powerful frigates - in part to match the very heavy frigates

  The wiki page on the USS_Alliance suggests that part of the reason she was sold off was because she suffered damage after striking a rock latter that year which caused underwater damage and she was laid up with a minimal crew to keep her "in reasonably satisfactory condition".  It seems that this was never repaired due to the costs before she was sold into commercial service.

[lordroel]

Mar 11, 2021 11:21:56 GMT stevep said:

Mar 10, 2021 15:18:48 GMT lordroel said:

USS Alliance and the Last Battle of the American Revolution - episode - 64

  Interesting.  The battle shows how important supplies gold especially were to keep the rebels fighting even at this late stage.  Also shows how much luck paid a part in such activities.  Ironically the US had already signed the peace treaty in Feburary but of course with the slow communications of the time it took a while for people, especially ships on different stations, to be made aware of this.

  I doubt a 66 gun ship would be a frigate.  Suspect the French ship was more likely a 4th rate [IIRC] ship of the line.  Although some of the smaller ships of the line were razzed down by removing the top gun deck to make very powerful frigates - in part to match the very heavy frigates

  The wiki page on the USS_Alliance suggests that part of the reason she was sold off was because she suffered damage after striking a rock latter that year which caused underwater damage and she was laid up with a minimal crew to keep her "in reasonably satisfactory condition".  It seems that this was never repaired due to the costs before she was sold into commercial service.

Here is a nice list of the The Continental Navy and you can see a lot are burned ore captured by the British.

[lordroel]

Olive Ann Beech: The First Lady of Aviation - episode - 65

[lordroel]

The Samoan Crisis of 1889 - episode - 66

[lordroel]

The 1831 City Bank of New York Robbery - episode - 67

[lordroel]

The Union Boss and the Most Successful Race Car in History - episode - 68

[oscssw]

Mar 10, 2021 15:18:48 GMT lordroel said:

USS Alliance and the Last Battle of the American Revolution - episode - 64

Ah Robert Morris, one of my favorite founding fathers of the USA.  Interesting fellow but I didn't know about his connection with the Alliance. You could say he was my nation's founding capitalist.  Morris made his fortune as a global capitalist in 1776, well before capitalism had been described and accepted as an economic system.   He was a free market, laissez-faire capitalist who often said "Trade should be as free as the air."

Morris was a self-made merchant and entrepreneur from Philadelphia.  Morris didn't believe the colonists would prevail against England.   When the Declaration of Independence was signed, Morris set his personal opposition aside and went with the majority opinion.

During the Revolution, Morris used his reputation and business connections to effectively bankroll American forces. He was active in supplying Washington's army with gunpowder, which he smuggled in under the noses of British authorities in Europe and the Caribbean. It was George Washington's opinion the Revolution couldn't have been won without Morris. He came through at critical times for George Washington, who, with his army in the field, needed money the congress could not provide.  One of these times was to get the Continental army to Yorktown.   While Washington orchestrated the plan and the attack, Morris took care of all the logistics.  

Before Yorktown, the United States' fledgling new currency had all but failed, and the only medium of exchange with which to finance the revolution was Morris' own personal credit. So four years after opposing the Revolution, Morris had effectively become America's treasury and banker.   The "Morris notes," had become the sole currency of the government.

Despite Morris' indispensable role in the Revolution, he has gone down in history as something of a crook.  This was because of the backroom dealings he resorted to in order to fund the war.   Morris was the subject of perhaps the first congressional inquiry into self-dealings. He was exonerated by Congress when he was able to show that he had not profited inordinately from the arms contracts.  

After the war and the creation of the American government, Morris gladly ran from public life and went back into business.

Morris was convinced that the masses of Europe would soon be flocking into the American hinterland (he was about a century too early). He invested heavily in America's first great land boom, a real estate bubble. He was banking on the price going up. It didn't, and he went bankrupt.   In the late 18th century, when you went bankrupt you went all the way down. He spent three years toward the end of his life in debtor's prison in Philadelphia.

Because of his success he had far too many enemies.

America was a very tough place in the late 18th century."  A man rose and fell on his own, and if you fell, nobody was there to catch your fall.

[stevep]

Mar 22, 2021 19:02:10 GMT oscssw said:

Mar 10, 2021 15:18:48 GMT lordroel said:

USS Alliance and the Last Battle of the American Revolution - episode - 64

Ah Robert Morris, one of my favorite founding fathers of the USA.  Interesting fellow but I didn't know about his connection with the Alliance. You could say he was my nation's founding capitalist.  Morris made his fortune as a global capitalist in 1776, well before capitalism had been described and accepted as an economic system.   He was a free market, laissez-faire capitalist who often said "Trade should be as free as the air."

Morris was a self-made merchant and entrepreneur from Philadelphia.  Morris didn't believe the colonists would prevail against England.   When the Declaration of Independence was signed, Morris set his personal opposition aside and went with the majority opinion.

During the Revolution, Morris used his reputation and business connections to effectively bankroll American forces. He was active in supplying Washington's army with gunpowder, which he smuggled in under the noses of British authorities in Europe and the Caribbean. It was George Washington's opinion the Revolution couldn't have been won without Morris. He came through at critical times for George Washington, who, with his army in the field, needed money the congress could not provide.  One of these times was to get the Continental army to Yorktown.   While Washington orchestrated the plan and the attack, Morris took care of all the logistics.  

Before Yorktown, the United States' fledgling new currency had all but failed, and the only medium of exchange with which to finance the revolution was Morris' own personal credit. So four years after opposing the Revolution, Morris had effectively become America's treasury and banker.   The "Morris notes," had become the sole currency of the government.

Despite Morris' indispensable role in the Revolution, he has gone down in history as something of a crook.  This was because of the backroom dealings he resorted to in order to fund the war.   Morris was the subject of perhaps the first congressional inquiry into self-dealings. He was exonerated by Congress when he was able to show that he had not profited inordinately from the arms contracts.  

After the war and the creation of the American government, Morris gladly ran from public life and went back into business.

Morris was convinced that the masses of Europe would soon be flocking into the American hinterland (he was about a century too early). He invested heavily in America's first great land boom, a real estate bubble. He was banking on the price going up. It didn't, and he went bankrupt.   In the late 18th century, when you went bankrupt you went all the way down. He spent three years toward the end of his life in debtor's prison in Philadelphia.

Because of his success he had far too many enemies.

America was a very tough place in the late 18th century."  A man rose and fell on his own, and if you fell, nobody was there to catch your fall.

  oscssw,

  I had read that Washington had to scramble around for gold to pay his troops after a strike/mutiny at Philadelphia IIRC shortly before Yorktown as they hadn't been paid for some time.  However assumed it had come from France or did Morris get French gold through from Europe?

  How did Morris back those notes?  That tended to be the problem with paper money at this time period as normally people were unwilling to trust them unless they were backed, generally by the ability to convert to gold when desired.  Unless he had a lot of resources to back such currency?

  Steve