stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 13, 2021 15:08:40 GMT
The UN would lack the power, will or ability to intervene in such a way, especially in such a short period of time. Especially since with the US paralysised either their representative in the UN would be vetoing anything like that or if incapable for any reason you would have Britain and France trying to counter Russia and China which would seek to gain advantage of such a situation. Furthermore since the UN HQ is in New York their probably busy relocated outside a war zone.
Also with an open revolt against the election results leading to violent insurrection I can't see a moderate like Biden doing anything to alienate many moderate Republicans. The hard liners who want Trump at any cost would already be committed but in the middle of what's a civil war Biden will be seeking to gain as much support as possible. You might get some alienated by more black propaganda from the rebels who make false claims about Biden's plans but again most people likely to be mislead by such will already be in the rebel camp.
Forst, the UN HQ has for the time being been relocated in Montreal but will get a more permanent home soon. And although yes, the farest to the Right Republicans do alienate some, and the far left in the Democratic Party proposed a Democratic Socalist agenda ITTL and this lead to much alienation. As to the UN, it’s more like in the Korean War,. The coalition is lead by Canada (purely based off of geography), with most of Western Europe as well as Australia and New Zealand joining in the coalition. It’s still all a massive crisis though, and a wreck across international lines.
Except they will continue to be ignored by the bulk of the Democratic party. especially in the middle of a massive crisis like this.
There is a possibility that more radical proposals will gain support if the war is long, just as Lincoln was able to move against slavery in the latter stages of the previous civil war so you could see moves for a more efficient health service for instance. Definitely going to be a bigger role for government on both sides of the divide. That always happens in modern wars.
How quickly could the UN move? Its only days since the attempted coup started and its a huge organisation. Plus moving out of New York may be seen as showing a lack of support for the legitimate government, which all bar possibly Russia and China would want to come out on top. As such I suspect it would be a few months before that happens, unless there's major terrorist attacks or other threats to New York City.
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Post by american2006 on Jan 13, 2021 16:22:19 GMT
Forst, the UN HQ has for the time being been relocated in Montreal but will get a more permanent home soon. And although yes, the farest to the Right Republicans do alienate some, and the far left in the Democratic Party proposed a Democratic Socalist agenda ITTL and this lead to much alienation. As to the UN, it’s more like in the Korean War,. The coalition is lead by Canada (purely based off of geography), with most of Western Europe as well as Australia and New Zealand joining in the coalition. It’s still all a massive crisis though, and a wreck across international lines.
Except they will continue to be ignored by the bulk of the Democratic party. especially in the middle of a massive crisis like this.
There is a possibility that more radical proposals will gain support if the war is long, just as Lincoln was able to move against slavery in the latter stages of the previous civil war so you could see moves for a more efficient health service for instance. Definitely going to be a bigger role for government on both sides of the divide. That always happens in modern wars.
How quickly could the UN move? Its only days since the attempted coup started and its a huge organisation. Plus moving out of New York may be seen as showing a lack of support for the legitimate government, which all bar possibly Russia and China would want to come out on top. As such I suspect it would be a few months before that happens, unless there's major terrorist attacks or other threats to New York City.
The thing is, the radicals in the Democratic Party will use this to push there agenda and will make themselves heard. They see the moderates as in bed with the Republicans, and the radicals at the present the ITTL are on top of the moderates. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 14, 2021 15:06:23 GMT
Except they will continue to be ignored by the bulk of the Democratic party. especially in the middle of a massive crisis like this.
There is a possibility that more radical proposals will gain support if the war is long, just as Lincoln was able to move against slavery in the latter stages of the previous civil war so you could see moves for a more efficient health service for instance. Definitely going to be a bigger role for government on both sides of the divide. That always happens in modern wars.
How quickly could the UN move? Its only days since the attempted coup started and its a huge organisation. Plus moving out of New York may be seen as showing a lack of support for the legitimate government, which all bar possibly Russia and China would want to come out on top. As such I suspect it would be a few months before that happens, unless there's major terrorist attacks or other threats to New York City.
The thing is, the radicals in the Democratic Party will use this to push there agenda and will make themselves heard. They see the moderates as in bed with the Republicans, and the radicals at the present the ITTL are on top of the moderates.
That is basically decided by your position as author. There would be massive anger at the excesses of the right but I'm not sure the radical left would gain as much attention as your assuming in an OTL scenario. Albeit that the right might claim this for propaganda purposes and 'persuade' a number of people into rebellion that way. As such I don't see the basic for so many supporting the hard right in overthrowing democracy by violent insurrection. I think its more likely the moderate Republicans and independents would join in the with moderate Democrats to oppose the hard liners.
Its possibly best if you want to go down the line of a large scale extreme right wing rebellion and especially it getting a lot of support by the military to make it viable that I stop reading/posting in this thread. I honesty think that most republican voters would be appalled by the actions of the extremists and oppose them. [You can see the reactions of many to the drastic but markedly less violence OTL where the violence was confined to the Capitol. Ditto with the vast majority of the army, although some groups might abandon their oaths of loyalty to the Republic.
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Post by american2006 on Jan 14, 2021 16:53:36 GMT
The thing is, the radicals in the Democratic Party will use this to push there agenda and will make themselves heard. They see the moderates as in bed with the Republicans, and the radicals at the present the ITTL are on top of the moderates.
That is basically decided by your position as author. There would be massive anger at the excesses of the right but I'm not sure the radical left would gain as much attention as your assuming in an OTL scenario. Albeit that the right might claim this for propaganda purposes and 'persuade' a number of people into rebellion that way. As such I don't see the basic for so many supporting the hard right in overthrowing democracy by violent insurrection. I think its more likely the moderate Republicans and independents would join in the with moderate Democrats to oppose the hard liners.
Its possibly best if you want to go down the line of a large scale extreme right wing rebellion and especially it getting a lot of support by the military to make it viable that I stop reading/posting in this thread. I honesty think that most republican voters would be appalled by the actions of the extremists and oppose them. [You can see the reactions of many to the drastic but markedly less violence OTL where the violence was confined to the Capitol. Ditto with the vast majority of the army, although some groups might abandon their oaths of loyalty to the Republic.
As to the first thing, yes I took my creative liberty as an author to allow that to happen, so that it could be a more even playing field. And I have absolutely no problem with you reading/posting, I try to keep this and other works rooted in reality and getting a second set of eyes to look over it is great. I’d just like to repeat that Don regards to the military and Republicans, the reason they are backing the Trump side is because they hate the Liberal side just as much, primarily because they are proposing increasingly radical measures. Regardless, the TL is about to take an alternative turn, and this should likely change the course of discussion. |
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Post by american2006 on Jan 14, 2021 17:05:56 GMT
A return to normalcy (sort of) The collapse of the United States over the course of January triggered international reactions. The People’s Republic of China invaded Taiwan and took over various islands and atolls in the South China Sea. North Korea took over South Korean. Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO was in a tailspin without its de facto leader. America needed to be put back together. Back on January 7th, Prime Minister Boris Johnson reached out to his counterparts in France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, and Japan to create a solution to the issues in America. The UN task force was the temporary solution everyone agreed too. However, it was clear that the imploding US would need more permanent control. The Five Powers, who remained assembled in London, began to negotiate an occupation of the Americas until political stability could be restored. This operation, modeled after Germany in World War Two, would be the largest occupation effort in human history. The United Kingdom agreed to occupy New England and New York City, as well as temporarily and in some cases permanently take over US overseas military bases. The Japanese agreed to occupy Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, and Japan, and to take control of a significant portion of the US nuclear arsenal to combat North Korea and China. Mexico agreed to occupy Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California, as well as the gold and other hard value behind the US Dollar, which later mixed with and joined the Mexican Peso, jolting the Mexican economy. Canada occupied Alaska and much of the Northern US. The EU agreed to occupy the rest, however at the moment it was only France and Germany who could offer that. The US military, which had fractured off, mostly came back under the control of the five powers, seeing the value of peace out waying that of war. The occupation was in full affect by February. www.yapms.com/app/?m=6hm8 |
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Post by american2006 on Jan 14, 2021 17:20:45 GMT
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 14, 2021 17:55:29 GMT
A return to normalcy (sort of) The collapse of the United States over the course of January triggered international reactions. The People’s Republic of China invaded Taiwan and took over various islands and atolls in the South China Sea. North Korea took over South Korean. Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO was in a tailspin without its de facto leader. America needed to be put back together. Back on January 7th, Prime Minister Boris Johnson reached out to his counterparts in France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, and Japan to create a solution to the issues in America. The UN task force was the temporary solution everyone agreed too. However, it was clear that the imploding US would need more permanent control. The Five Powers, who remained assembled in London, began to negotiate an occupation of the Americas until political stability could be restored. This operation, modeled after Germany in World War Two, would be the largest occupation effort in human history. The United Kingdom agreed to occupy New England and New York City, as well as temporarily and in some cases permanently take over US overseas military bases. The Japanese agreed to occupy Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, and Japan, and to take control of a significant portion of the US nuclear arsenal to combat North Korea and China. Mexico agreed to occupy Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California, as well as the gold and other hard value behind the US Dollar, which later mixed with and joined the Mexican Peso, jolting the Mexican economy. Canada occupied Alaska and much of the Northern US. The EU agreed to occupy the rest, however at the moment it was only France and Germany who could offer that. The US military, which had fractured off, mostly came back under the control of the five powers, seeing the value of peace out waying that of war. The occupation was in full affect by February. www.yapms.com/app/?m=6hm8South Korea wouldn't easily fall to the North Koreans even if the North uses its weapons. Same for Taiwan. It would be bloody fight for the invader. |
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Post by american2006 on Jan 14, 2021 18:27:31 GMT
A return to normalcy (sort of) The collapse of the United States over the course of January triggered international reactions. The People’s Republic of China invaded Taiwan and took over various islands and atolls in the South China Sea. North Korea took over South Korean. Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO was in a tailspin without its de facto leader. America needed to be put back together. Back on January 7th, Prime Minister Boris Johnson reached out to his counterparts in France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, and Japan to create a solution to the issues in America. The UN task force was the temporary solution everyone agreed too. However, it was clear that the imploding US would need more permanent control. The Five Powers, who remained assembled in London, began to negotiate an occupation of the Americas until political stability could be restored. This operation, modeled after Germany in World War Two, would be the largest occupation effort in human history. The United Kingdom agreed to occupy New England and New York City, as well as temporarily and in some cases permanently take over US overseas military bases. The Japanese agreed to occupy Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, and Japan, and to take control of a significant portion of the US nuclear arsenal to combat North Korea and China. Mexico agreed to occupy Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California, as well as the gold and other hard value behind the US Dollar, which later mixed with and joined the Mexican Peso, jolting the Mexican economy. Canada occupied Alaska and much of the Northern US. The EU agreed to occupy the rest, however at the moment it was only France and Germany who could offer that. The US military, which had fractured off, mostly came back under the control of the five powers, seeing the value of peace out waying that of war. The occupation was in full affect by February. www.yapms.com/app/?m=6hm8South Korea wouldn't easily fall to the North Koreans even if the North uses its weapons. Same for Taiwan. It would be bloody fight for the invader. Oh yes, indeed. I just didn’t cover them in great detail this chapter, might do it in the future. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 14, 2021 18:28:20 GMT
South Korea wouldn't easily fall to the North Koreans even if the North uses its weapons. Same for Taiwan. It would be bloody fight for the invader. Oh yes, indeed. I just didn’t cover them in great detail this chapter, might do it in the future. If North Korea uses their nukes on Seoul and other SK cities, they inherit a irradiated South Korea. Kim's haven't thought this through. |
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Post by american2006 on Jan 14, 2021 18:34:45 GMT
Oh yes, indeed. I just didn’t cover them in great detail this chapter, might do it in the future. If North Korea uses their nukes on Seoul and other SK cities, they inherit a irradiated South Korea. Kim's haven't thought this through. To be fair, if North Korea deployed their ENTIRE nuclear arsenal on South Korea, the South Koreans would take a pretty big hit. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 14, 2021 18:36:30 GMT
If North Korea uses their nukes on Seoul and other SK cities, they inherit a irradiated South Korea. Kim's haven't thought this through. To be fair, if North Korea deployed their ENTIRE nuclear arsenal on South Korea, the South Koreans would take a pretty big hit. Didn't think this through for the DPRK's part: the fall out would also carry on to their area. |
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