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Post by american2006 on Feb 1, 2021 16:18:36 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 1, 2021 16:22:07 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. |
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Post by american2006 on Feb 1, 2021 16:30:23 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Well, that’s surely grim. What would happen to Canada, they lose there number 1 trade partner, defender, and there only neighbor. Do they ally with another country, would they relocate further North as to avoid flooding? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 1, 2021 16:48:41 GMT
A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Well, that’s surely grim. What would happen to Canada, they lose there number 1 trade partner, defender, and there only neighbor. Do they ally with another country, would they relocate further North as to avoid flooding? They will survive, like Mexico, it will be hard but they will survive most likely. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 1, 2021 16:54:53 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Russia and China would feel more emboldened to invade their neighbors, I take it? With NATO's epicenter out of the picture, the remaining members will be hard-pressed to deal with two great powers that have suddenly become the strongest players in the game. |
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Post by american2006 on Feb 1, 2021 17:03:49 GMT
A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Russia and China would feel more emboldened to invade their neighbors, I take it? With NATO's epicenter out of the picture, the remaining members will be hard-pressed to deal with two great powers that have suddenly become the strongest players in the game. Let’s give some credit to the remaining members, they aren’t exactly weak countries. France and the U.K. have nuclear weapons and my guess is in this scenario without the Us the UN is gone too, as they are headquartered out of New York. NATO to survive would have to have greater cohesion, perhaps by merging the EU and NATO into a single entity or rather making NATO an economic alliance as well. Also potential expansion across the world. Germany and Canada would probably develop nukes to defend themselves. Another thing to take into consideration is climate. Europe enjoys a mild climate due to the Mid-Atlantic current which wouldn’t exist anymore because Florida won’t be there to reflect the water. Therefore, Ontario and Quebec would get a lot warmer while Europe would start to feel more like Russia and other neighbors at its latitude. This being said, it would be bad for Canada too. Water in lakes would get warmer flooding the regions of Manitoba and the neck of Ontario. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 1, 2021 18:50:53 GMT
A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Russia and China would feel more emboldened to invade their neighbors, I take it? With NATO's epicenter out of the picture, the remaining members will be hard-pressed to deal with two great powers that have suddenly become the strongest players in the game. Your going to miss us when we are gone! 
Zybot I agree China becomes/is a "Great Power" and more so without we USAuns.
However, to the best of my knowledge Russia is now and even after we are gone not a "Great Power".
A Great Power is a sovereign state that is recognized as having the ability and expertise to exert its influence on a global scale. Russia is not a great power by most major measurements, except for it's nukes. With a GDP of less than $1.6 trillion, it places Ivan between Spain and Italy in national standing. The Russian economy is stagnating, and its population is shrinking. IMO, Russia is actually a "deteriorating" nation, not a "Great Power" in decline .
Huge difference from the Soviet Union and Russia today. I'd think NATO with both UK and French Nukes would be more than strong enough to maintain the sovereignty of Europe.
Over night the RN and MN become the great naval powers again.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 1, 2021 18:58:19 GMT
Over night the RN and MN become the great naval powers again. You forgot to add Japan to the list, it might want to move into the former american possession in the Pacific before China does. [/quote] |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 1, 2021 19:02:34 GMT
Over night the RN and MN become the great naval powers again. You forgot to add Japan to the list, it might want to move into the former american possession in the Pacific before China does. [/quote][/div]
I don't think Japan has the, carrier force, fleet train or expeditionary ground forces to support long distance ops at present. The JMSDF is nothing like the IJN, for now at least.  |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 1, 2021 19:28:51 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? What happens to the patrolling US SSBNs, at sea naval ships, afloat Marines, aloft USAF planes, US forces on allied bases? I'd bet the remaining USN would find itself a home with the RN, MN or JMSDF. Especially as all three have a big vacuum to fill in keeping the PLAN in check.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 1, 2021 19:31:37 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? What happens to the patrolling US SSBNs, at sea naval ships, afloat Marines, aloft USAF planes, US forces on allied bases? I'd bet the remaining USN would find itself a home with the RN, MN or JMSDF. Especially as all three have a big vacuum to fill in keeping the PLAN in check.
Royal Navy yes, but i doubt Japan will be happy with so many nukes. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 1, 2021 20:01:29 GMT
What happens to the patrolling US SSBNs, at sea naval ships, afloat Marines, aloft USAF planes, US forces on allied bases? I'd bet the remaining USN would find itself a home with the RN, MN or JMSDF. Especially as all three have a big vacuum to fill in keeping the PLAN in check.
Royal Navy yes, but i doubt Japan will be happy with so many nukes. Yes indeed the Nukes do present a quandary to the Japanese. On one hand is their natural revulsion, given Nagasaki and Hiroshima, to these brutal weapons. On the other hand, without the US Nuclear deterrent China, the greatest threat on their doorstep and hereditary enemy, has them by the "Short Hairs"! Nippon's self preservation may depend on their own nuclear deterrent. Knowing the Japanese as I do they would be on the side of survival and learn to live with their nukes.
More I think of it the RN and MN would have problems manning these ships once the US sailor's enlistments are up.
The CSG would be a natural for the MN. They have plenty of Nuke Carrier engineering experience and are experts with catapult takeoff and arrested landing aircraft. The MN & RN would also be able to operate the SSBNs and SSNs, whereas the Japanese would have a pretty tough learning curve with Nuke boats but I'd bet they would learn fast.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 1, 2021 21:25:58 GMT
Across the world, there will be a lot of people grieving. Their relatives and friends would have been in the US living there or visiting. Others will just grieve for those they didn't know. Societal panic will strike with the thinking 'it could be us next' because this US vanishing act will be unexplainable.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 2, 2021 13:33:40 GMT
A lot of wars across the planet and a global economic crisis. Well, that’s surely grim. What would happen to Canada, they lose there number 1 trade partner, defender, and there only neighbor. Do they ally with another country, would they relocate further North as to avoid flooding?
What flooding? With the US gone sea levels are likely to drop depending on how deep the gap is below sea level where the US used to be. Damn we could end up not being an island again if it drops low enough!  Unless you mean that the sea rushing in will cause a lot of flooding in border areas, which is a possibility but that could be across a good bit of the world. [Given that its believed that landslides from a volcano in the Canaries can cause devastating floods across N America, as well as elsewhere, what happens when half a continent disappears?] Much of the Canadian border with the US is quite high so their biggest problem might be getting ports on their new southern border as a lot of it will be quite a way above even the old sea level, let alone the new one.
One other bad effect for Canada is that the Great Lakes and most/all of the St Lawrence has gone as the waters of the former, which is the vast majority of supply for the latter, will be flowing into the new ocean south of Canada.
As american2006, says there are going to be huge climatic impacts, including probably a severe chilling of western Europe. It's not certain because the entire world climatic system is going to be thrown into disorder and it could take quite a while before things settle down to a new 'stability'. For one thing the Bering Straits are now much wider - unless possibly affected by the drop in sea level. IIRC the arctic is icebound because its largely enclosed which restricts water waters from lower latitudes so this could have an impact in making it melt even more rapidly with considerable impact on local lands and again the world climate will be affected. Ditto with the impact of the Atlantic and Pacific having a fairly broad common border where the US used to be.
Politically and economically, as well as the panic the sudden unexplained disappearance will cause that James G, mentioned the world economic system and balance of power will be thrown into chaos. Russia and China are the two biggest gainers, at least in the short term and you might well see a Chinese move to 'liberate' Taiwan and probably tighten their grip in the S China Sea as well as possible clashes elsewhere. The big issue is possibly what does Putin do? Does he think that opens the door to conquests in the west or does he realise that the dragon to the east is no longer checked by the US? Economically China is even more powerful but it will have lost a lot of assets in the former US and the disruption of world trade will cause problems for everybody.
The Europeans will have to make some decisions quickly but the big problem here will probably be the EU. Its already got used to considering itself as 'all' of Europe so will it accept there are other powers, not just Britain, involved on the continent. If we can get an intelligent agreement to reogranise NATO in response to what's happened and possibly link up with other regional defence groupings then it might stablish things somewhat but I fear that Taiwan and quite possibly S Korea will be lost to dictatorships. Japan will have to re-militarise a lot more and probably go nuclear, which with its technology level it can probably do pretty quickly. Although it might face threats of 'preventive' attacks from either China or N Korea in such a circumstance. I can see it seeking to link up with other powers, most noticeably India and possibly a good amount of ASEAN for common defence.
The ME is going to be a mess, even more than now. With the US gone and the European powers almost certainly removing any military presence to secure their homelands the potential for more conflict is very likely to explode. Israel has lost its primary ally/defender, Iran its biggest check and what does Turkey do? You could see attacks on Israel, Iran making a bit for the oil of the Gulf - especially since there's a lot of Shias there who might welcome them, at least at 1st, Turkey getting adventurous or any combination of those. Ditto further east with Afghanistan and C Asia. I fear that with Pakistan's support, which is likely to be more open now, that Taliban will escalate its murder campaign and probably conquer Afghanistan again.
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Post by american2006 on Feb 2, 2021 16:12:33 GMT
So the scenario, tonight at midnight EST America just disappears into the ocean, all 50 states, DC, and territories and all embassies and military bases are restored to there natural form. All other American properties stays. How does the world react? What happens to the patrolling US SSBNs, at sea naval ships, afloat Marines, aloft USAF planes, US forces on allied bases? I'd bet the remaining USN would find itself a home with the RN, MN or JMSDF. Especially as all three have a big vacuum to fill in keeping the PLAN in check.
As to what happens to the ships, if they are just for the US Military they disappear. If the ship is shared/used by a foriegn nation, it and everyone on board remains. |
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Unless you mean that the sea rushing in will cause a lot of flooding in border areas, which is a possibility but that could be across a good bit of the world. [Given that its believed that landslides from a volcano in the Canaries can cause devastating floods across N America, as well as elsewhere, what happens when half a continent disappears?] Much of the Canadian border with the US is quite high so their biggest problem might be getting ports on their new southern border as a lot of it will be quite a way above even the old sea level, let alone the new one.