How would 1980s U.S. military technology fare against an extended Vietnam War?

[gillan1220]

I asked in the other forum an AHC where the Vietnam War drags on to the 1980s.

With the change of technology in that decade, I was curious how this extended Vietnam War would look like where in the M16A2, M2 Bradley, M1 Abrams, F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, A-10 Thunderbolt, AH-64 Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk, and the Tomahawk cruise missiles fare against the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong.

The M16A2 would probably be preferred as the M16A1 was prone to jamming. Also, soldiers and marines do not need to spray-and-pray as the burst-fire function of the A2 is meant for soldiers to conserve ammo.

The M2 Bradley would probably save more lives from casualties caused by subpar protection provided by the M113. The Abrams would no doubt dominate the battlefield against NVA T-55s and T-62s. Those newer jets would swat Vietnamese MiGs off the sky. The Apache would probably provide air support in a similar role to the Huey gunships. The Blackhawks would probably fly alongside the Hueys. Tomahawks could be used to perform SEAD/DEAD against NVA SAM systems.

What do you guys think?

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 12:52:23 GMT gillan1220 said:

I asked in the other forum an AHC where the Vietnam War drags on to the 1980s.

With the change of technology in that decade, I was curious how this extended Vietnam War would look like where in the M16A2, M2 Bradley, M1 Abrams, F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, A-10 Thunderbolt, AH-64 Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk, and the Tomahawk cruise missiles fare against the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong.

The M16A2 would probably be preferred as the M16A1 was prone to jamming. Also, soldiers and marines do not need to spray-and-pray as the burst-fire function of the A2 is meant for soldiers to conserve ammo.

The M2 Bradley would probably save more lives from casualties caused by subpar protection provided by the M113. The Abrams would no doubt dominate the battlefield against NVA T-55s and T-62s. Those newer jets would swat Vietnamese MiGs off the sky. The Apache would probably provide air support in a similar role to the Huey gunships. The Blackhawks would probably fly alongside the Hueys. Tomahawks could be used to perform SEAD/DEAD against NVA SAM systems.

What do you guys think?

While the United states would get better technology so would North Vietnam, Soviet Union and China.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 12:59:13 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 12:52:23 GMT gillan1220 said:

I asked in the other forum an AHC where the Vietnam War drags on to the 1980s.

With the change of technology in that decade, I was curious how this extended Vietnam War would look like where in the M16A2, M2 Bradley, M1 Abrams, F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, A-10 Thunderbolt, AH-64 Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk, and the Tomahawk cruise missiles fare against the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong.

The M16A2 would probably be preferred as the M16A1 was prone to jamming. Also, soldiers and marines do not need to spray-and-pray as the burst-fire function of the A2 is meant for soldiers to conserve ammo.

The M2 Bradley would probably save more lives from casualties caused by subpar protection provided by the M113. The Abrams would no doubt dominate the battlefield against NVA T-55s and T-62s. Those newer jets would swat Vietnamese MiGs off the sky. The Apache would probably provide air support in a similar role to the Huey gunships. The Blackhawks would probably fly alongside the Hueys. Tomahawks could be used to perform SEAD/DEAD against NVA SAM systems.

What do you guys think?

While the United states would get better technology so would North Vietnam, Soviet Union and China.

In that case, Vietnam would receive the newer SAM systems, tanks, and fighter jets. This assumes a POD wherein either Gerald Ford wins another term or that the Sino-American rapprochement never occurs.

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 13:03:30 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 12:59:13 GMT lordroel said:

While the United states would get better technology so would North Vietnam, Soviet Union and China.

In that case, Vietnam would receive the newer SAM systems, tanks, and fighter jets. This assumes a POD wherein either Gerald Ford wins another term or that the Sino-American rapprochement never occurs.

North Vietnam would remain the Soviet and Chinese test bed as it was during the entirety of the Vietnam War.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 13:05:58 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:03:30 GMT gillan1220 said:

In that case, Vietnam would receive the newer SAM systems, tanks, and fighter jets. This assumes a POD wherein either Gerald Ford wins another term or that the Sino-American rapprochement never occurs.

North Vietnam would remain the Soviet and Chinese test bed as it was during the entirety of the Vietnam War.

Both sides would like to assess captured equipment such as downed aircraft. So I could see the USSR want to get its hands on a crashed F-14, F-15, F-16, and a Hornet and the U.S. wanting to get its hands on a Su-22 or a Su-25 Frogfoot or an S-300.

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 13:08:54 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:05:58 GMT lordroel said:

North Vietnam would remain the Soviet and Chinese test bed as it was during the entirety of the Vietnam War.

Both sides would like to assess captured equipment such as downed aircraft. So I could see the USSR want to get its hands on a crashed F-14, F-15, F-16, and a Hornet and the U.S. wanting to get its hands on a Su-22 or a Su-25 Frogfoot or an S-300.

True, the Soviet Union got after the end of the Vietnam War from Vietnam at least one F-5: The Soviets Got an American F-5 Fighter From Vietnam, so i think they would try to get some newer United States equipment. 

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 13:16:09 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:08:54 GMT gillan1220 said:

Both sides would like to assess captured equipment such as downed aircraft. So I could see the USSR want to get its hands on a crashed F-14, F-15, F-16, and a Hornet and the U.S. wanting to get its hands on a Su-22 or a Su-25 Frogfoot or an S-300.

True, the Soviet Union got after the end of the Vietnam War from Vietnam at least one F-5: The Soviets Got an American F-5 Fighter From Vietnam, so i think they would try to get some newer United States equipment. 

Even earlier in 1958 during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis, the Soviet Union got access to American-made Sidewinder missile that got lodged on a PLAAF MiG-21. The Soviets used it to develop the Aphid air-to-air missile.

Here, I could see the Soviets supply the Mi-24 Hind to the North Vietnamese to counter the Bradley IFV and the M1 Abrams. Then there will FIM-92 Stingers in use by the U.S. and RVN forces.

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 13:21:28 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:16:09 GMT lordroel said:

True, the Soviet Union got after the end of the Vietnam War from Vietnam at least one F-5: The Soviets Got an American F-5 Fighter From Vietnam, so i think they would try to get some newer United States equipment. 

Even earlier in 1958 during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis, the Soviet Union got access to American-made Sidewinder missile that got lodged on a PLAAF MiG-21. The Soviets used it to develop the Aphid air-to-air missile.

Here, I could see the Soviets supply the Mi-24 Hind to the North Vietnamese to counter the Bradley IFV and the M1 Abrams. Then there will FIM-92 Stingers in use by the U.S. and RVN forces.

I think the M1 Abrams is to heavy for use in Vietnam.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 13:31:57 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:21:28 GMT gillan1220 said:

Even earlier in 1958 during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis, the Soviet Union got access to American-made Sidewinder missile that got lodged on a PLAAF MiG-21. The Soviets used it to develop the Aphid air-to-air missile.

Here, I could see the Soviets supply the Mi-24 Hind to the North Vietnamese to counter the Bradley IFV and the M1 Abrams. Then there will FIM-92 Stingers in use by the U.S. and RVN forces.

I think the M1 Abrams is to heavy for use in Vietnam.

So the U.S. in this case would use the Bradley or the M60 then?

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 14:19:00 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 13:31:57 GMT lordroel said:

I think the M1 Abrams is to heavy for use in Vietnam.

So the U.S. in this case would use the Bradley or the M60 then?

Think that would be the case.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 14:21:27 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 14:19:00 GMT gillan1220 said:

So the U.S. in this case would use the Bradley or the M60 then?

Think that would be the case.

Then I could see the A-10 hammer the Ho Chi Minh Trail with it's 30 mm cannon and JDAMs.

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 14:31:22 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 14:21:27 GMT lordroel said:

Think that would be the case.

Then I could see the A-10 hammer the Ho Chi Minh Trail with it's 30 mm cannon and JDAMs.

With the same result as the B-52 and other attacks on the trail, you have to find the trail to hit it.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 14:33:40 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 14:31:22 GMT gillan1220 said:

Then I could see the A-10 hammer the Ho Chi Minh Trail with it's 30 mm cannon and JDAMs.

With the same result as the B-52 and other attacks on the trail, you have to find the trail to hit it.

I guess that's where the B-1 Lancer comes. Since the B-1 is meant for precision strikes. The B-1 would be used for attacking masses of NVA troops while the A-10 would wreck their tanks and armored vehicles.

[lordroel]

Jul 4, 2021 14:39:19 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jul 4, 2021 14:33:40 GMT lordroel said:

With the same result as the B-52 and other attacks on the trail, you have to find the trail to hit it.

I guess that's where the B-1 Lancer comes. Since the B-1 is meant for precision strikes. The B-1 would be used for attacking masses of NVA troops while the A-10 would wreck their tanks and armored vehicles.

The United States Air Force was already doing that with F-4s using the early versions of the Paveway series.

[gillan1220]

Jul 4, 2021 14:42:29 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 4, 2021 14:39:19 GMT gillan1220 said:

I guess that's where the B-1 Lancer comes. Since the B-1 is meant for precision strikes. The B-1 would be used for attacking masses of NVA troops while the A-10 would wreck their tanks and armored vehicles.

The United States Air Force was already doing that with F-4s using the early versions of the Paveway series.

F-4 losses according to Wikipedia:

F-4 Phantom II—445 total, 382 in combat
First loss: operational (non-combat), F-4C 64-0674 (45TH TFS, 15th TFW) which ran out of fuel after strike in SVN on 9 June 1965; first combat loss F-4C 64-0685 (45th TFS, 15th TFW) shot down Ta Chan, NW NVN on 20 June 1965. 9 of the losses were parked aircraft struck by rockets.
Final loss: F-4D 66-8747 (432d TRW) on 29 June 1973.