Soviet Group of Forces in Germany from 1988 to 20.06.1941

[lordroel]

Feb 6, 2022 14:02:19 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Wikipedia has a good ORBAT.

ON june 20 1941 most of Wehrmacht is in the east, completing last preparations for Barbarossa. The token forces in Germany and the west are a complete non issue.

Wich map i already have posted a couple post above.

[Otto Kretschmer]

Ok
So what do they do?

They take over Berlin and Hitler dies since on June 20 he's probably still in Berlin.

What's next?

The troops in the east begin receiving messages that some unimaginably powerful force is attacking Berlin.


.

2-3 days later info is going to come that Berlin is captured.

The forces in Germany are from 1988 which is the very end of communism. They hate Nazis but do not love Stalin either

[gillan1220]

Feb 6, 2022 14:29:13 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Ok
So what do they do?

They take over Berlin and Hitler dies since on June 20 he's probably still in Berlin.

What's next?

The troops in the east begin receiving messages that some unimaginably powerful force is attacking Berlin.


.

2-3 years later info is going to come that Berlin is captured.

The forces in Germany are from 1988 which is the very end of communism. They hate Nazis but do not love Stalin either

The Soviet Army would definitely take Berlin after pounding it with Su-25s, MiGs, and artillery. Then the T-80 and T-72 tanks, BMPs, and BTRs would move in, crushing anything the 1941 German army could offer.

I do think this Soviet Army of 1988 would not pledge allegiance to Stalin. They may even threaten to launch an airstrike on the Kremlin to kill Stalin.

[stevep]

Feb 5, 2022 13:58:12 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 5, 2022 13:54:14 GMT stevep said:

  lordroel ,

  When I try that any of the Soviet OOBs go to a web site for a minutues seller "Micro Armor Mayhem".  This seems to apply for all the Soviet OOBs although most of the other stuff is OK.

  Steve

The site is okay, you see on the lower left the orbats.

  Ah OK thanks.  Missed that.

[stevep]

   Given that we're talking about Soviet forces suddenly finding themselves in the midst of Nazi Germany they might just pull what forces they have out of E Berlin and the area to consolidate their forces and hit Berlin with a few tactical nukes.  Then quite probably demand the unconditional surrender of the Nazis and their allies.  That would be the logical approach and the most likely one given who their facing.  Of course many Germans, let alone the Nazis, won't want to surrender but more nukes could persuade a lot while with Germany in a fair bit of chaos and the forces in the east not sure what's going on I could see at least some surrendering.  How they would be viewed in places like Poland, France and the Low Countries would also depend on circumstances.  Not to mention how their going to be seen by Britain and the US and how they react to them.  they can't really hurt the US but could do a hell of a lot of damage to Britain if they so decide.

  The situation with Stalin is going to be difficult.  For the up-timers I would expect a mixed reaction.  They will know of Khrushchev's denouncing of Stalin's excesses but of course Khrushchev himself lost power and many would have been brought up with Stalin as the great war leader who defeated the fascists.  I doubt most will want to be under his command, let alone control, especially since they will never be trusted by him due to their knowledge but getting rid of him would be difficult.  I can't see them being willing to nuke large areas of the USSR, especially the Russian heartland to try and get rid of him and the more intelligent of them will know that due to lack of spares and munitions, which will be largely irreplaceable in 1941 their own power has a limited life-span.

[Otto Kretschmer]

Maybe just bomb the Kremlin?

Or bomb Stalin's dacha if they know where it is.

Or just surrender to WAllies. The WAllies getting their hands on T-72Bs, T-80Us, Su-27s and MiG-29s as well as Soviet AD and tactical/operational missiles would shorten the Cold War by 30 years at the very least. If the War ends in 1941, WAllies could be fielding their equivalents of early MiG-21s and T-72s with DU APFSDS by 1945-6 at a time when first T-54s roll out from Soviet production lines.

Also, hoe much knowledge in technical fields is there within the Soviet forces? Anyone with advanced knowledge of say, electronics?

[lordroel]

Feb 6, 2022 19:24:10 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Or just surrender to WAllies. The WAllies getting their hands on T-72Bs, T-80Us, Su-27s and MiG-29s as well as Soviet AD and tactical/operational missiles would shorten the Cold War by 30 years at the very least. If the War ends in 1941, WAllies could be fielding their equivalents of early MiG-21s and T-72s with DU APFSDS by 1945-6 at a time when first T-54s roll out from Soviet production lines.

Soviet forces of 1988 surrendering to the British, not going to happen.

[stevep]

Feb 6, 2022 19:37:28 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 6, 2022 19:24:10 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Or just surrender to WAllies. The WAllies getting their hands on T-72Bs, T-80Us, Su-27s and MiG-29s as well as Soviet AD and tactical/operational missiles would shorten the Cold War by 30 years at the very least. If the War ends in 1941, WAllies could be fielding their equivalents of early MiG-21s and T-72s with DU APFSDS by 1945-6 at a time when first T-54s roll out from Soviet production lines.

Soviet forces of 1988 surrendering to the British, not going to happen.

  Would agree.  Even if they oppose communism, which I suspect many at least won't at least among the leadership their still 'Russians' and wouldn't willingly work with let alone surrender to the British who they have been taught were the enemy.

[gillan1220]

Feb 6, 2022 19:37:28 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 6, 2022 19:24:10 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Or just surrender to WAllies. The WAllies getting their hands on T-72Bs, T-80Us, Su-27s and MiG-29s as well as Soviet AD and tactical/operational missiles would shorten the Cold War by 30 years at the very least. If the War ends in 1941, WAllies could be fielding their equivalents of early MiG-21s and T-72s with DU APFSDS by 1945-6 at a time when first T-54s roll out from Soviet production lines.

Soviet forces of 1988 surrendering to the British, not going to happen.

I think the 1988 Soviet Army would try to negotiate a settlement with 1941 France, Britain, and the United States.

[Otto Kretschmer]

Feb 8, 2022 13:28:11 GMT gillan1220 said:

Feb 6, 2022 19:37:28 GMT lordroel said:

Soviet forces of 1988 surrendering to the British, not going to happen.

I think the 1988 Soviet Army would try to negotiate a settlement with 1941 France, Britain, and the United States.

It is plausible but not sure.

Let's say it does not and the Soviets keep their tech. Germany becomes the most technologically advanced state.

APFSDS and HEAT ammo can start being produced within half a year, so can unguided 122 and 152 mm shells and small arms ammo.

Basic T-72 equivalent can be built no later than 1943. A simple MiG-21 in 1944.

Electronics is going to be a problem.

[stevep]

Feb 9, 2022 20:25:00 GMT Otto Kretschmer said:

Feb 8, 2022 13:28:11 GMT gillan1220 said:

I think the 1988 Soviet Army would try to negotiate a settlement with 1941 France, Britain, and the United States.

It is plausible but not sure.

Let's say it does not and the Soviets keep their tech. Germany becomes the most technologically advanced state.

APFSDS and HEAT ammo can start being produced within half a year, so can unguided 122 and 152 mm shells and small arms ammo.

Basic T-72 equivalent can be built no later than 1943. A simple MiG-21 in 1944.

Electronics is going to be a problem.

  How is Germany going to get its hands on that tech?  If the Soviet forces start running down due to supplies and munitions shortages their likely to glass as much of Germany as possible before destroying their equipment.

  Plus I doubt that Germany, even if not largely destroyed, could construct something as large and complex as a T-72 within a couple of years.  Would have to rejig a hell of a lot of industries to even attempt this and that would seriously disrupt production.

[shadow007]

1988 Soviets curbstomp the Nazis then assassinate Stalin. They then devour Italy and Japan as WW2 ends much earlier

Warsaw Pact doesn't make a lot of nukes. Instead they spend most of their military budget on space exploration.

Cold War is about who can build the first space colony