Paul von Hindenburg lives longer

[melanie]

German Reichspraesident Paul von Hindenburg died of cancer in August 1934.

POD: He never gets cancer at all. He remains in office as President of the Reich until he retires at the constiutional end of his term in the middle of 1939.

How is Germany changed by this?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg

[stevep]

Jun 6, 2022 5:34:00 GMT melanie said:

German Reichspraesident Paul von Hindenburg died of cancer in August 1934.

POD: He never gets cancer at all. He remains in office as President of the Reich until he retires at the constiutional end of his term in the middle of 1939.

How is Germany changed by this?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg

  Well presuming other health problems don't force him to resign at some point then it might stop Hitler.  Although that is not certain and also there is the danger of some more dangerous - simply because its not so deranged as the Nazis - revanchist and militaristic group gains power in Germany.

  However if this doesn't happen its possible that Wiemar Germany regains some stability and economic success.  The big issue would be events elsewhere, which would affect both Germany and the rest of the world.  If Germany stays stable and liberal then the rogues to consider are Italy, Japan and possibly the Soviets if Stalin ever things his empire is strong enough. 

  Italy isn't strong enough on its own to pose a serious threat to the world's stability although it could cause relatively minor issues such as the invasion of Ethiopia and annexation of Albania.  If at some stage Mussolini tries something bigger such as an attack on Yugoslavia or Greece that is likely to be fatal to him. 

  Japan is likely to still go down the deranged militaristic route and invade China as OTL.  Where they go from there is difficult to see.  Very unlikely they can win with Britain, the US and France supporting China indirectly but do they go for a wider war - or possibly some attempt to fight the Soviets.  Either is likely to be fatal to them, although the latter might be largely limited to their power in Manchuria being broken.

  The USSR could go any number of ways.  Stalin was very cautious OTL and concerned to build up the Soviet Union as an economic and industrial giant but if he ever thinks he's succeeded in that might he be more aggressive.

[lordroel]

Jun 6, 2022 18:20:00 GMT stevep said:

Jun 6, 2022 5:34:00 GMT melanie said:

German Reichspraesident Paul von Hindenburg died of cancer in August 1934.

POD: He never gets cancer at all. He remains in office as President of the Reich until he retires at the constiutional end of his term in the middle of 1939.

How is Germany changed by this?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg

  Well presuming other health problems don't force him to resign at some point then it might stop Hitler.  Although that is not certain and also there is the danger of some more dangerous - simply because its not so deranged as the Nazis - revanchist and militaristic group gains power in Germany.

  However if this doesn't happen its possible that Wiemar Germany regains some stability and economic success.  The big issue would be events elsewhere, which would affect both Germany and the rest of the world.  If Germany stays stable and liberal then the rogues to consider are Italy, Japan and possibly the Soviets if Stalin ever things his empire is strong enough. 

  Italy isn't strong enough on its own to pose a serious threat to the world's stability although it could cause relatively minor issues such as the invasion of Ethiopia and annexation of Albania.  If at some stage Mussolini tries something bigger such as an attack on Yugoslavia or Greece that is likely to be fatal to him. 

  Japan is likely to still go down the deranged militaristic route and invade China as OTL.  Where they go from there is difficult to see.  Very unlikely they can win with Britain, the US and France supporting China indirectly but do they go for a wider war - or possibly some attempt to fight the Soviets.  Either is likely to be fatal to them, although the latter might be largely limited to their power in Manchuria being broken.

  The USSR could go any number of ways.  Stalin was very cautious OTL and concerned to build up the Soviet Union as an economic and industrial giant but if he ever thinks he's succeeded in that might he be more aggressive.

He is in the 90s, Hitler could have him remove if he was senile ore something, he is not going to wait nicely until 1939 until Hindenburg dies of old age.

[melanie]

Although, Benito Mussolini put up with "only" being head of government throughout his time as dictator of Italy as King Victor Emmanuel III was still titular head of state.

[575]

Jun 6, 2022 18:35:45 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 6, 2022 18:20:00 GMT stevep said:

  Well presuming other health problems don't force him to resign at some point then it might stop Hitler.  Although that is not certain and also there is the danger of some more dangerous - simply because its not so deranged as the Nazis - revanchist and militaristic group gains power in Germany.

  However if this doesn't happen its possible that Wiemar Germany regains some stability and economic success.  The big issue would be events elsewhere, which would affect both Germany and the rest of the world.  If Germany stays stable and liberal then the rogues to consider are Italy, Japan and possibly the Soviets if Stalin ever things his empire is strong enough. 

  Italy isn't strong enough on its own to pose a serious threat to the world's stability although it could cause relatively minor issues such as the invasion of Ethiopia and annexation of Albania.  If at some stage Mussolini tries something bigger such as an attack on Yugoslavia or Greece that is likely to be fatal to him. 

  Japan is likely to still go down the deranged militaristic route and invade China as OTL.  Where they go from there is difficult to see.  Very unlikely they can win with Britain, the US and France supporting China indirectly but do they go for a wider war - or possibly some attempt to fight the Soviets.  Either is likely to be fatal to them, although the latter might be largely limited to their power in Manchuria being broken.

  The USSR could go any number of ways.  Stalin was very cautious OTL and concerned to build up the Soviet Union as an economic and industrial giant but if he ever thinks he's succeeded in that might he be more aggressive.

He is in the 90s, Hitler could have him remove if he was senile ore something, he is not going to wait nicely until 1939 until Hindenburg dies of old age.

I'm inclined to believe that Hitler would find some way to get rid of him of course as a victim of the Communists or some other and given an appropriate State Funeral etc. if the old man tries to block the way to total power.

[Max Sinister]

At the very least, Jewish WW1 veterans would be treated better - that's something he achieved as president under Hitler, and the only thing I know of.

How senile exactly he was I don't know. Some joked as soon as in 1933 that he supposedly asked "Since when does Herr Brüning have a moustache?"

[michelvan]

Paul von Hindenburg died of old age 87 years old
if he live to 92 years to 1939, had Made this any difference ?

Hitler start consolidated his power the moment Von Hindenburg appointed the little annoying Austrian to Chancellor.
Von Hindenburg sign 1933 the Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat and Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutze des Deutschen Volkes.
Both emergency decree disable the constitution and Parlament of the Weimar Republik, what little annoying Austrian used to gain more political control over Germany!
From here it went fast until Germany was brutal dictatorship...