Falkands Task Force Gets Some Friends

[simon darkshade]

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2022 14:53:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

Wait simon darkshade , making a ASB thread, have to see if this is a first of not.

Question i have, are any person double who served on the younger (75) navy and current (82) navy), that might be a bit strange.

Also HMS Ark Royal (1975) has a good force onboard: 

(809) NAS Buccaneer S2 Strike, 14 attack aircraft.

(892) NAS Phantom FG1 Fleet Air Defence, 12 fighter aircraft.

(849B)  NAS Gannet AEW3  Airborne Early Warning, (4), Gannet COD4 1 Carrier On Board Delivery (1).

(824)  NAS Sea King HAS2  Anti-Submarine Warfare, 7 ASW helicopters.

Ship's Flight Wessex HAS1 Search and Rescue, 2 SAR helicpoters.

Seems we now have two 809 Naval Air Squadrons, one aboard HMS Ark Royal operating the Buccaneer S2 Strike and part of 809 Naval Air Squadron (4 BAE Sea Harriers absorbed into 800 Squadron) operating aboard HMS Hermes.

[simon darkshade]

Any doubles are naturally there, to compound the strangeness and shock.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2022 15:13:14 GMT simon darkshade said:

Any doubles are naturally there, to compound the strangeness and shock.

Well what is the standard procedure for this, will they join the 1982 Taskforce ore be sent to the United Kingdom.

[575]

The Ark and Vanguard make much sense but isn't the two Tiger-class just Elephants? Vanguard carries 8x2 5.25" DP guns and 72x 40mm Bofors in addition to her main armament making her some AA-ship.
The Tiger-class designated Air-defence Cruiser carries 2x2 6" and 3x2 3" guns should be able to fire 800 rounds a minute - Vanguards Bofors guns alone should be able to pour out 8520 rounds a minute. Add to this the 8x2 5.25" DP guns and You have a rather awesome AA-BB.
Read somewhere that an extra Fleet-Carrier would have enabled the TF do a lot more and of course more flexibility. Now I'm no ship-nerd as such but something on this would be interesting.

[stevep]

Aug 17, 2022 14:53:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

    Well assuming that the down-time units can be incorporated into the task force, which shouldn't be too difficult for the short term anyway, it makes the Task Force significantly stronger.  Vanguard will be a bit weak on electronics, radar and the like but with aid from the other ships to provide defence that gives a hell of a lot more firepower for shore bombardment.  It could also act as a bullseye for the attacking Argentinians as the biggest ship in the force although if it gets hit by an Exocet or a modern torpedo I'm not sure how it would faire but better than a DD or merchantman.  The Ark Royal gives a hell of a lot more air cover for the fleet as well. 

  There will be interesting legal, morale and personal issues with any duplicated persons, especially since its not impossible that you could have 3 or possibly even 4 versions of some people.  The down-timers would have problems adjusting to the world their now in, especially for the Vanguard and the cruisers, given the time gap.  Less for the people on the Ark although they will be surprised by the political changes since their time and worried by the massive naval cuts.

 

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2022 16:53:12 GMT stevep said:

Aug 17, 2022 14:53:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

    Well assuming that the down-time units can be incorporated into the task force, which shouldn't be too difficult for the short term anyway, it makes the Task Force significantly stronger.  Vanguard will be a bit weak on electronics, radar and the like but with aid from the other ships to provide defence that gives a hell of a lot more firepower for shore bombardment.  It could also act as a bullseye for the attacking Argentinians as the biggest ship in the force although if it gets hit by an Exocet or a modern torpedo I'm not sure how it would faire but better than a DD or merchantman.  The Ark Royal gives a hell of a lot more air cover for the fleet as well. 

  There will be interesting legal, morale and personal issues with any duplicated persons, especially since its not impossible that you could have 3 or possibly even 4 versions of some people.  The down-timers would have problems adjusting to the world their now in, especially for the Vanguard and the cruisers, given the time gap.  Less for the people on the Ark although they will be surprised by the political changes since their time and worried by the massive naval cuts.

 

So how would, if you send HMS Vanguard into San Carlos fear, against low flying Argentinian fighters.

[575]

Aug 17, 2022 18:21:32 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2022 16:53:12 GMT stevep said:

    Well assuming that the down-time units can be incorporated into the task force, which shouldn't be too difficult for the short term anyway, it makes the Task Force significantly stronger.  Vanguard will be a bit weak on electronics, radar and the like but with aid from the other ships to provide defence that gives a hell of a lot more firepower for shore bombardment.  It could also act as a bullseye for the attacking Argentinians as the biggest ship in the force although if it gets hit by an Exocet or a modern torpedo I'm not sure how it would faire but better than a DD or merchantman.  The Ark Royal gives a hell of a lot more air cover for the fleet as well. 

  There will be interesting legal, morale and personal issues with any duplicated persons, especially since its not impossible that you could have 3 or possibly even 4 versions of some people.  The down-timers would have problems adjusting to the world their now in, especially for the Vanguard and the cruisers, given the time gap.  Less for the people on the Ark although they will be surprised by the political changes since their time and worried by the massive naval cuts.

 

So how would, if you send HMS Vanguard into San Carlos fear, against low flying Argentinian fighters.

I wouldn't expect it being send into such confined waters even if it is able to throw up a tremendous AA-barrage it is too narrow for having such a hull enter. It could deliver covering fire from outside Falklands Sound to the north of Fanning Head - range of the BL 15" being 30,68 km/33,550yds.

[simon darkshade]

I don’t think all of the designed 40mm mounts were still carried in 1955, so would issue that note of comparative caution.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2022 1:50:13 GMT simon darkshade said:

I don’t think all of the designed 40mm mounts were still carried in 1955, so would issue that note of comparative caution.

Think by 1955, HMS Vanguard was a oversize Royal Yacht.

[simon darkshade]

Not really. It didn’t have all of the main or secondary turrets manned or stocked fully with ammo, but was in advance of its late 40s fit out.

[575]

Aug 18, 2022 1:50:13 GMT simon darkshade said:

I don’t think all of the designed 40mm mounts were still carried in 1955, so would issue that note of comparative caution.

In that case send the three White Elephants to Portsmouth so the Ark may be used for something serious.

[miletus12]

Aug 17, 2022 14:53:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

1. The medics will be treating human casualties for mental and physical shock.
2. Physical translation through a wormhole will have caused extensive physical plant casualties on the four vessels.
3. After 1 and 2 are temporarily sorted out, the business of trying to put a couple of practical WWII museum ships, a battleship of dubious utility and a probably badly damaged aircraft carrier into the order of battle remains.  
 
Ark Royal 1975 is about worn out with catapults and arrestor gear at the end of their service lives, but any halfway working CATOBAR is better than a ski-jumper for fleet air operations. 



Note the Corsairs? Those are USNAS by markings. USN pilots? Photo is from 1975.

HMS Vanguard's AAA suite is obsolete. Her main battery is of some shore bombardment utility. However, she will be a bomb and Exocet sponge, so expect to write her off.  

HMS Lion and HMS Tiger 1963 are not able to engage targets moving at Mach 0.5 or faster flying at less than 100 meters off the deck. Their radars are not good enough. They are a sink-ex liability in the air combat environment: but can do shore bombardment with HMS Vanguard. I see that HMS Ark Royal was carrying some Corsairs (See 1975 photo). This would be valuable in the air defense role as CAP gun fighters / and CAS strikers to complement sidewinder armed Harriers. How good is the aboard helo detachment at ASW? The "modern" RN ships and helos present at the time were "unacceptable".

The key improvement is the Gannets. AEW aircraft are worth their weight in platinum.  
   

[oscssw]

Aug 17, 2022 14:53:51 GMT simon darkshade said:

As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit.

All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament.

What happens next?

Well "Reaper" that would bed one hell of a 1980's TG.

First Galtieri and his lieutenants collectively shit their pants.  The he calls up Maggie and declares the unconditional surrender of the Malvinas back to the UK and pleads for an immediate cease fire.

2nd he gets on the phone to the Malvinas Commander and orders him to prepare his troops for immediate "redeployment" back to homeland bases.

3rd, one of his LTs contacts the garrison commander at South Georgia and  orders him to prepare his troops for immediate "redeployment" back to homeland bases.

4th he orders the navy to get it's amphibious transports and any chartered, fast merchies to the Malvinas yesterday to conduct an  immediate "redeployment" of the occupation troops and any other Argentine nationals back to Argentina.

5th he orders the Argentine Air Force transports and as many chartered aircraft able to use Stanley air strip to begin  immediate "redeployment" back to Argentina.

6th he looks around his senior staff and advisors for his soon to be executed for Treason scape goat(s).

7th makes a few calls to ensure his last resort escape plan is still viable and all assets, especially financial, family and favorite mistresses are immediately available for PCS ( permanent change of station) .   He'd have to a really nice place without extradition and one that would tell the UN to go piss up a rope, if the money was right. 

JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia is his safest bet but he really does not like the climate and they are far too cosey with the USA's CIA at times. He already investigated and made some very high level government inquiries in Spain, Switzerland and MonteCarlo.  These are three are wonderful places but they do have a history of sometimes giving up their guests....   WHEN Their MOney Ran Out but he had plenty and would make one last withdrawal from the treasury as he left.  Money talks, BS and ethics walk.

8.  I'd also think the Exchequer would have a nervous breakdown when they thought about the fiscal ramifications of "acquiring" those great capital ships and their huge crews.  I'd bet Maggie, both sides of the Parliament and her Bean counters would make it clear to The Admiralty  "You can NOT keep them; they will break us.   See if any of our Commonwealth friends want to BUY them?  At least the Ark Royal, in good condition, should bring in a pretty good price.  Unlikely anyone can afford Tiger or Vanguard.  However a tin pot dictator in South America or Middle East just might be willing to take them off our hands at a knockdown price.  In any case the "War" is over and you will reduce HM forces to peacetime levels immediately."

Hope this helps Simon.  

 

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2022 14:37:12 GMT oscssw said:

First Galtieri and his lieutenants collectively shit their pants. The he calls up Maggie and declares the unconditional surrender of the Malvinas back to the UK and pleads for an immediate

Why would he do that, he did not do that with the RN Taskforce of 1982, doubt he will call for peace due the arrival of HMS Ark Royal, HMS Lion, HMS Tiger and HMS Vanguard.