AH by Gary Gygax: "Victorious German arms: An alternate military history of World War Two"

[Max Sinister]

This is probably hopelessly obscure, but maybe one of the older members of this board knows this 1973 book? I'd be very interested in learning what the D&D guy thought up.

[Max Sinister]

These guys had a bit more info:

"Begins with a blurb by Churchill.
There are 22 short parts to the Book, each with a roman numeral designation:
On the Steppes
Steel Meets Steel
Hammer, Anvil and Tongs
Oil and Water
Stalin Strikes Back
The Americans in North Africa
Gibraltar
Japan in the Early Stages
To the Urals
The Middle-Eastern Front
Sea and Air in 1943
African Conquest
Last Gasp in the East
Allied Invasions
The Persian Operation
Japan Leaves the Axis
China
The Secret War
The Skies Rain Death
The British Isles Submerged
1946 Elsewhere
Aftermath
Appendix - Axis Grand Strategy in Plan and Execution"

[575]

Apr 15, 2023 0:11:14 GMT Max Sinister said:

This is probably hopelessly obscure, but maybe one of the older members of this board knows this 1973 book? I'd be very interested in learning what the D&D guy thought up.

Sorry can't help was way before my real entry to AH - did play D&D of course! Well not 1973 but a few years down the line.

[lordroel]

Apr 15, 2023 0:11:14 GMT Max Sinister said:

This is probably hopelessly obscure, but maybe one of the older members of this board knows this 1973 book? I'd be very interested in learning what the D&D guy thought up.

Seems i can buy this book, only cost me 800 dollars on EBay.

[stevep]

Apr 15, 2023 0:16:29 GMT Max Sinister said:

These guys had a bit more info:

"Begins with a blurb by Churchill.
There are 22 short parts to the Book, each with a roman numeral designation:
On the Steppes
Steel Meets Steel
Hammer, Anvil and Tongs
Oil and Water
Stalin Strikes Back
The Americans in North Africa
Gibraltar
Japan in the Early Stages
To the Urals
The Middle-Eastern Front
Sea and Air in 1943
African Conquest
Last Gasp in the East
Allied Invasions
The Persian Operation
Japan Leaves the Axis
China
The Secret War
The Skies Rain Death
The British Isles Submerged
1946 Elsewhere
Aftermath
Appendix - Axis Grand Strategy in Plan and Execution"

  Never heard of it although a 13-14 year old me might have been interested if I had known about it when it came out.  Presuming of course there was a cheap paper-back version - got to stick by my religious principles as a devout miser.

  The chapters show suggests it starts sometime during Barbarossa or possibly the following year with a successful operation Blue taking both Stalingrad and Baku - the OTL Operations Uranus/Saturn being attempting and failing then advances to the Urals - probably in early 43, followed by a pincer movement with a successful Rommel advancing into Palestine and another forces striking through Persia to secure the ME.  Then probably a last bid by Stalin that fails - unless Last Gasp in the East is something to do with Japan.  Also the mention of Gibraltar suggests it assumes Franco is persuaded to join the Axis and German forces take the Rock.  Possibly also a premature/desperate allied invasion of some part of Europe - where in France, Spain or Italy I wouldn't know. 

  What happens in the Far East is unclear but Japan leaving the Axis could suggest it makes a separate peace with the US - which the latter might be willing to do because of the dire situation in Europe although could be politically unlikely.  Then something happens with China,

  The Skies Rain Death could relate to an allied strategic bombing campaign or a German missile attack on the UK.  British Islands submerged - which presumably is in 46 - sounds very grim and could relate to it being isolated by more U boats or an overwhelming attack, possibly using gas or nuclear weapons - perhaps decided by the Secret War.

  Anyway initial speculation as to some of the points.  In 73 we're less than 30 years from the end of the OTL war and a lot less was known about the actual facts and resources so Nazi victory scenarios were a lot more practical seeming than they would be now.

[stevep]

   I had a plough through Amazon and found a reference to it but no summery or review here.  Its only 76 pages so $800 seems a steal - for the seller!  Amazon don't have any in stock currently nor any idea when they would have.  Not that I would buy from them but sounds like a very slim book, especially with 22 chapters.  As such very short on details.

[Max Sinister]

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, 800$ is crazy. Even if I was richer than I've ever been, I'd think twice.

[lordroel]

Apr 15, 2023 17:01:45 GMT Max Sinister said:

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, 800$ is crazy. Even if I was richer than I've ever been, I'd think twice.

You should check out the strange, 1940 German invade America novel by Van Loon, Hendrik Willem with the longest title i have ever seen which is:

Invasion, Being the Personal Recollections of What Happened to Our Own Family and to Some of Our Friends During the First Forty-Eight Hours of That Terrible Incident in Our History Which is Now Known As the Great Invasion . . . and How We Escaped with Our Lives and the Strange Adventures Which Befell Us before the Nazis Were Driven from Our Territories. Written Down At the Time and Now for the First Time Presented to the Public At Large, by Hendrik Willem Van Loon.

It does not cost as much as the novel you describe but it is a gem in my collection.

[Max Sinister]

Apr 15, 2023 17:18:08 GMT lordroel said:

Apr 15, 2023 17:01:45 GMT Max Sinister said:

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, 800$ is crazy. Even if I was richer than I've ever been, I'd think twice.

You should check out the strange, 1940 German invade America novel by Van Loon, Hendrik Willem with the longest title i have ever seen which is:

Invasion, Being the Personal Recollections of What Happened to Our Own Family and to Some of Our Friends During the First Forty-Eight Hours of That Terrible Incident in Our History Which is Now Known As the Great Invasion . . . and How We Escaped with Our Lives and the Strange Adventures Which Befell Us before the Nazis Were Driven from Our Territories. Written Down At the Time and Now for the First Time Presented to the Public At Large, by Hendrik Willem Van Loon.

It does not cost as much as the novel you describe but it is a gem in my collection.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

[lordroel]

Apr 15, 2023 18:14:49 GMT Max Sinister said:

Apr 15, 2023 17:18:08 GMT lordroel said:

You should check out the strange, 1940 German invade America novel by Van Loon, Hendrik Willem with the longest title i have ever seen which is:

Invasion, Being the Personal Recollections of What Happened to Our Own Family and to Some of Our Friends During the First Forty-Eight Hours of That Terrible Incident in Our History Which is Now Known As the Great Invasion . . . and How We Escaped with Our Lives and the Strange Adventures Which Befell Us before the Nazis Were Driven from Our Territories. Written Down At the Time and Now for the First Time Presented to the Public At Large, by Hendrik Willem Van Loon.

It does not cost as much as the novel you describe but it is a gem in my collection.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Its a 1940 novel, written in a time where the US was not involved in the War, if you want to (insert: Lightning in the Night timeline), Fred Allhof novel also written in 1940 called Lightning in the night is much better.

[Max Sinister]

OK, so it's rather Future History than AH. Even if it looks like it.

[lordroel]

Apr 15, 2023 18:40:12 GMT Max Sinister said:

OK, so it's rather Future History than AH. Even if it looks like it.

It future history written in 1940 depicting a War in 1945.

[miletus12]

Apr 15, 2023 0:11:14 GMT Max Sinister said:

This is probably hopelessly obscure, but maybe one of the older members of this board knows this 1973 book? I'd be very interested in learning what the D&D guy thought up.

Not exactly a smart career move for a game designer, even back then. 

[Max Sinister]

Apr 16, 2023 0:51:23 GMT miletus12 said:

Apr 15, 2023 0:11:14 GMT Max Sinister said:

This is probably hopelessly obscure, but maybe one of the older members of this board knows this 1973 book? I'd be very interested in learning what the D&D guy thought up.

Not exactly a smart career move for a game designer, even back then. 

Oh, so you think AH is even worse re: "No money, no women, and the stigma of geekiness" than Tabletop RPGs?

[miletus12]

Apr 20, 2023 2:43:30 GMT Max Sinister said:

Oh, so you think AH is even worse re: "No money, no women, and the stigma of geekiness" than Tabletop RPGs?

That is not it. The thing is that the AH that makes the bad guys the "heroes" in America of that era, was contraindicated.