World War III, The 36-Hour War of 1948

[lordroel]

Jun 22, 2016 14:28:02 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 22, 2016 14:26:03 GMT lordroel said:

But the Soviet Union is much larger, plus if the enemy has their first launch sites located in equatorial Africa it will take some time by the United States to react that the attack did not come directly from the enemy homeland but from secret rocket-launching sites.

How do you think the Soviets would get bases in Africa? Angola and Mozambique didn't become independent until the seventies I think.

If the lets call it the 36-Hour War verse is present year 1948, could we not have Belgian Congo (which has Uranium ore mines and thus could be important for the Soviet Union) have a independence war supported by the Soviet Union from 1945 to 1946 that is so bloody the Belgians have no choice to give Congo its freedom, the Soviet Union come in with the pretext of helping the people of Congo and of course taking control of the Uranium ore mines, from 1947 to 1948 the Soviet in secret build their rocket-launching sites who they will use in their first strike while also building their own in the Soviet Union itself.

[stevep]

Jun 22, 2016 14:34:12 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 22, 2016 14:28:02 GMT spanishspy said:

How do you think the Soviets would get bases in Africa? Angola and Mozambique didn't become independent until the seventies I think.

If the lets call it the 36-Hour War verse is present year 1948, could we not have Belgian Congo (which has Uranium ore mines and thus could be important for the Soviet Union) have a independence war supported by the Soviet Union from 1945 to 1946 that is so bloody the Belgians have no choice to give Congo its freedom, the Soviet Union come in with the pretext of helping the people of Congo and of course taking control of the Uranium ore mines, from 1947 to 1948 the Soviet in secret build their rocket-launching sites who they will use in their first strike while also building their own in the Soviet Union itself.

  Even if it was politically practical, given how exhausted Russia was after WWII, their limited ability to project power to central Africa and the probable reaction of other western powers to a colonial revolt in the Belgium Congo there are the technological issues.  Don't forget that the Soviets didn't have their own test explosion until 49 and it takes longer to build  practical weapon.  Not to mention the early bombs were too huge to go in an ICBM or that those weren't developed until ~1960.  Sputnik wasn't launched until 57 IIRC.  As such getting a huge nuclear establishment in Russia, let alone in a Congo puppet by 48 without a POD some time before 45 qould require ASB intervention.

[lordroel]

Jun 22, 2016 16:29:11 GMT stevep said:

Jun 22, 2016 14:34:12 GMT lordroel said:

If the lets call it the 36-Hour War verse is present year 1948, could we not have Belgian Congo (which has Uranium ore mines and thus could be important for the Soviet Union) have a independence war supported by the Soviet Union from 1945 to 1946 that is so bloody the Belgians have no choice to give Congo its freedom, the Soviet Union come in with the pretext of helping the people of Congo and of course taking control of the Uranium ore mines, from 1947 to 1948 the Soviet in secret build their rocket-launching sites who they will use in their first strike while also building their own in the Soviet Union itself.

  Even if it was politically practical, given how exhausted Russia was after WWII, their limited ability to project power to central Africa and the probable reaction of other western powers to a colonial revolt in the Belgium Congo there are the technological issues.  Don't forget that the Soviets didn't have their own test explosion until 49 and it takes longer to build  practical weapon.  Not to mention the early bombs were too huge to go in an ICBM or that those weren't developed until ~1960.  Sputnik wasn't launched until 57 IIRC.  As such getting a huge nuclear establishment in Russia, let alone in a Congo puppet by 48 without a POD some time before 45 qould require ASB intervention.

True but the fact is many of the things mention in the article did come true, of course the underground rocket-launching site and atomic bomb factory did not instead we have missile silos and of course by god luck never had a World War III.

[spanishspy]

Jun 22, 2016 16:36:15 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 22, 2016 16:29:11 GMT stevep said:

  Even if it was politically practical, given how exhausted Russia was after WWII, their limited ability to project power to central Africa and the probable reaction of other western powers to a colonial revolt in the Belgium Congo there are the technological issues.  Don't forget that the Soviets didn't have their own test explosion until 49 and it takes longer to build  practical weapon.  Not to mention the early bombs were too huge to go in an ICBM or that those weren't developed until ~1960.  Sputnik wasn't launched until 57 IIRC.  As such getting a huge nuclear establishment in Russia, let alone in a Congo puppet by 48 without a POD some time before 45 qould require ASB intervention.

True but the fact is many of the things mention in the article did come true, of course the underground rocket-launching site and atomic bomb factory did not instead we have missile silos and of course by god luck never had a World War III.

The only alternative to African bases would be submarines, and for the Soviet Union at that time seems a bit much.

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2016 1:24:50 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 22, 2016 16:36:15 GMT lordroel said:

True but the fact is many of the things mention in the article did come true, of course the underground rocket-launching site and atomic bomb factory did not instead we have missile silos and of course by god luck never had a World War III.

The only alternative to African bases would be submarines, and for the Soviet Union at that time seems a bit much.

The closeted thing they would come to having a missile submarine would be a Soviet version of the Japanese I-400 (but the United States sank them because they did not want to Soviets from wanting to see them and thus build their own) armed with a Soviet version of the German V-1 rocket.

[spanishspy]

Jun 23, 2016 3:15:15 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 23, 2016 1:24:50 GMT spanishspy said:

The only alternative to African bases would be submarines, and for the Soviet Union at that time seems a bit much.

The closeted thing they would come to having a missile submarine would be a Soviet version of the Japanese I-400 (but the United States sank them because they did not want to Soviets from wanting to see them and thus build their own) armed with a Soviet version of the German V-1 rocket.

If the Soviets take Hokkaido faster this could be feasible.

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2016 12:52:30 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 23, 2016 3:15:15 GMT lordroel said:

The closeted thing they would come to having a missile submarine would be a Soviet version of the Japanese I-400 (but the United States sank them because they did not want to Soviets from wanting to see them and thus build their own) armed with a Soviet version of the German V-1 rocket.

If the Soviets take Hokkaido faster this could be feasible.

Ore the mange to capture on in Korea or Manchuria port.

[spanishspy]

Jun 23, 2016 13:32:05 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 23, 2016 12:52:30 GMT spanishspy said:

If the Soviets take Hokkaido faster this could be feasible.

Ore the mange to capture on in Korea or Manchuria port.

That too. Do you know where these submarines were stationed?

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2016 16:01:31 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 23, 2016 13:32:05 GMT lordroel said:

Ore the mange to capture on in Korea or Manchuria port.

That too. Do you know where these submarines were stationed?

So far i know the 3 I-400s where not in korea ore manchuria at the time of Japan surrendered but will have to check to make sure.

[spanishspy]

Jun 23, 2016 16:03:53 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 23, 2016 16:01:31 GMT spanishspy said:

That too. Do you know where these submarines were stationed?

So far i know the 3 I-400s where not in korea ore manchuria at the time of Japan surrendered but will have to check to make sure.

That would be an important variable.

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2016 16:06:35 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 23, 2016 16:03:53 GMT lordroel said:

So far i know the 3 I-400s where not in korea ore manchuria at the time of Japan surrendered but will have to check to make sure.

That would be an important variable.

We even can fabricate that it is the Germans who are the enemy, that would make more sense as Belgian Congo could be part of the German Reich.

[spanishspy]

Jun 23, 2016 16:46:40 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 23, 2016 16:06:35 GMT spanishspy said:

That would be an important variable.

We even can fabricate that it is the Germans who are the enemy, that would make more sense as Belgian Congo could be part of the German Reich.

I suppose that makes sense.

[lordroel]

Jun 23, 2016 22:40:35 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 23, 2016 16:46:40 GMT lordroel said:

We even can fabricate that it is the Germans who are the enemy, that would make more sense as Belgian Congo could be part of the German Reich.

I suppose that makes sense.

I also think so.

[stevep]

Possibly with a victorious 3rd Reich and a cold war with the US [and hopefully Britain]. However they would still have their problems with "Jewish science" - unless you mean a non-Nazi Germany with more rational leadership but still deeply expansionist.

Even then however I think it would be sometime in the mid-50's before you could get that level of technology, in terms of large numbers of ICBMs with powerful enough small nukes. [By small nukes I mean ones small enough to fit onto a missile, not a reference to the kilotonage.]

[lordroel]

Jun 24, 2016 10:31:26 GMT stevep said:

Possibly with a victorious 3rd Reich and a cold war with the US [and hopefully Britain]. However they would still have their problems with "Jewish science" - unless you mean a non-Nazi Germany with more rational leadership but still deeply expansionist.

Even then however I think it would be sometime in the mid-50's before you could get that level of technology, in terms of large numbers of ICBMs with powerful enough small nukes. [By small nukes I mean ones small enough to fit onto a missile, not a reference to the kilotonage.]

Well the Germans come the closet to who i can think of being the enemy during the 36-Hour War but your right expect that the Germans have a good rocket program but their nuclear program was not something to write about while the United States had a good nuclear program but not a goo rocket program.