BURNISHED ROWS OF STEEL: The Great North American War, 1861-

[tfsmith121]

The RN would have operated from Halifax, Bermuda, and Havana, initially; one the US blockade of the rebel states was lifted, the British would have operated from various rebel ports.

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 2, 2016 6:32:44 GMT tfsmith121 said:

The RN would have operated from Halifax, Bermuda, and Havana, initially; one the US blockade of the rebel states was lifted, the British would have operated from various rebel ports.

Best,

Wait is Havana not part of Cuba which is as far as i can remember still a Spanish colony,so the Royal Navy operating out of Cuba is kinda strange or has Spain declared war on the Union with out me knowing it.

Also are the still Confederate blockade runners sailing around, with the Royal Navy having destroyed the Union blockade i do not think the Confederacy needs blockade runners anymore.

[tfsmith121]

The British war planners, according to KD Bourne in British Preparations for War with the North planned fro Dunlop's RN force in the West Indies to operate from Havana against the US naval forces and enclaves on the Gulf Coast in the event of war. It would not be a permanent base, but a forward concentration point.

Jamaica would be the "base" but it was too far south to sustain operations in any sort of a timely fashion.

In BROS, the rebel "maritime" focus is on their riverine forces and whatever deep water trade they can justify diverting manpower and shipping to, one the RN forces the USN to withdraw from the Gulf and southeastern coasts.

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 3, 2016 2:38:04 GMT tfsmith121 said:

The British war planners, according to KD Bourne in British Preparations for War with the North planned fro Dunlop's RN force in the West Indies to operate from Havana against the US naval forces and enclaves on the Gulf Coast in the event of war. It would not be a permanent base, but a forward concentration point.

But still not explain how the Royal Navy can operate from a foreign country colony, unless that country either gave them permission to do so, is allied with them ore is to weak to challenge them.

[tfsmith121]

Presumably they would use Havana as a coaling station and forward assembly point; here's the quote from Bourne:

The squadron which had been assembling at Havanah under his commodore, Dunlop, for the Mexican expedition was to deal with the Pensacola Bay force and the commander-in-chief's own squadron at Bermuda with the North Carolina and Virginia force.

and the footnote:


3 Milne expected by the end of December to have at Havanah a force of one battle- ship, two or three frigates, two corvettes, three sloops and two gun-vessels and at Bermuda three Battleships, two frigates, two sloops and two gun-vessels and possibly another frigate and three sloops which were engaged in carrying despatches (Milne to Somerset, private, 20 Dec. and to Grey, private, 25 Dec., Milne papers I07/I and 2).

Looks like they were just going to tell the Spanish to suck it up.

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 4, 2016 7:09:09 GMT tfsmith121 said:

Presumably they would use Havana as a coaling station and forward assembly point; here's the quote from Bourne:

The squadron which had been assembling at Havanah under his commodore, Dunlop, for the Mexican expedition was to deal with the Pensacola Bay force and the commander-in-chief's own squadron at Bermuda with the North Carolina and Virginia force.

and the footnote:


3 Milne expected by the end of December to have at Havanah a force of one battle- ship, two or three frigates, two corvettes, three sloops and two gun-vessels and at Bermuda three Battleships, two frigates, two sloops and two gun-vessels and possibly another frigate and three sloops which were engaged in carrying despatches (Milne to Somerset, private, 20 Dec. and to Grey, private, 25 Dec., Milne papers I07/I and 2).

Looks like they were just going to tell the Spanish to suck it up.

Best,

It almost the same when American squadron during the beginning of the Spanish-American War was anchored at Hong Kong but when the war broke out he moved his ships to Chinese waters knowing that they where not able to do any thing about it

[tfsmith121]

Yep,power politics tends to lead to norms being observed in the breech...

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 6, 2016 5:08:12 GMT tfsmith121 said:

Yep,power politics tends to lead to norms being observed in the breech...

Best,

Would think the Union launching a diplomatic protest against Spain accusing them of being allied with the United Kingdom for allowing it to have ships in Cuban waters, but there is not much the Union can do about it i suppose except declaring war against Spain.

[tfsmith121]

Remember, the British, French, and Spanish had actually allied against Mexico in the 1861 Convention of London, and the Spanish put more troops ashore initially at Veracruz than the French. They pulled out when it became obvious what the French were up to, but it speaks to the realities of the willingness of the European powers to intervene against Latin American republics when they wished to ... The Spanish winked at the British and French adventures in return for the British and French winking at their Spanish in the DR in 1861-66 and against the Chileans and Peruvians in 1866-67.

They all failed, of course, but the historical record is such that the Europeans were all trying to take advantage of the US being at war.

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 7, 2016 19:29:14 GMT tfsmith121 said:

Remember, the British, French, and Spanish had actually allied against Mexico in the 1861 Convention of London, and the Spanish put more troops ashore initially at Veracruz than the French. They pulled out when it became obvious what the French were up to, but it speaks to the realities of the willingness of the European powers to intervene against Latin American republics when they wished to ... The Spanish winked at the British and French adventures in return for the British and French winking at their Spanish in the DR in 1861-66 and against the Chileans and Peruvians in 1866-67.

They all failed, of course, but the historical record is such that the Europeans were all trying to take advantage of the US being at war.

Best,

So you are saying the Spanish are turning a blind eye to the Royal Navy operating in Cuban waters and in return the British might turn a blind eye to whatever the Spanish are doing.

[tfsmith121]

Yep.

Update - Have now posted Part 2 of Chapter 8, set in August, 1862. A British attempt at the Presumpscot is met by the Home Guard and Berry's brigade, then Hamilton's division, thanks to a former railroad executive responsible for financing the Grand Trunk; two generals and a president meet at Wilmer McClean's farm; and President Lincoln proclaims something significant....



warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/32621/BURNISHED-ROWS-OF-STEEL-A-History-of-the-Great-War?page=9#.V6f2tEdaSM8



Enjoy.



Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 8, 2016 3:14:48 GMT tfsmith121 said:

Yep.

Best,

Looking at Chapter 8 Part 2 i wonder, the British must think the Confederacy are not pulling their weight in the war as they are not able to achieve success not the British have entered into the war.

[tfsmith121]

Well, the paradox is the US is (largely) on the defensive in Virginia in 1862, unlike historically; the rebels are the ones who are fighting the equivalent of the Peninsula and 2nd Manassas nd Antietam on the offensive, and the US forces - under McClellan - re on the defensive. He was not exactly lightning on the offensive, but he was capable of digging in and holding a position, and he has been facing JE Johnston, not Lee.

Best,

[lordroel]

Aug 8, 2016 3:19:02 GMT tfsmith121 said:

Well, the paradox is the US is (largely) on the defensive in Virginia in 1862, unlike historically; the rebels are the ones who are fighting the equivalent of the Peninsula and 2nd Manassas nd Antietam on the offensive, and the US forces - under McClellan - re on the defensive. He was not exactly lightning on the offensive, but he was capable of digging in and holding a position, and he has been facing JE Johnston, not Lee.

Best,

Does the Confederacy officers except when British officers offer their advice on how to fight ore are Confederacy officers to proud to accept advice from foreign officers.

[tfsmith121]

That's a fair question - given the dysfunctionality of the rebellion as a pseudo-nation, and the deeply factionalized nature of what passed for "national" institutions in the rebellion, the answer has to be no, or close to it.