The British will hold, a British-Soviet war in the 1980s.

[lordroel]

So i created this universe with only this idea.

The timeline sees the United States electing a ultra-isolationism president who withdraws from NATO who in turn collapse, the British-French-West German alliance is unable to hold the Soviet tide and as a result it is up to the British like 40 years in the past to fight and hold long enough until a new American president is elected who might save the day.

Can we expand this idea and would the British after having fought a land battle in West Europe be able to prevent a Soviet Red Sea Lion.

[James G]

This is something I am interested in.
I've done OBs / ORBATs before with a built-up British Armed Forces after having withdrawn intact from Western Europe and plotted out an Operation Sea Bear (as in Sea Lion) elsewhere before too.

This scenario of yours here is different. As in 1940, so much would be lost in a fight on the Continent. Britain would be in trouble faced with a continent in Soviet hands with the aircraft ranges of enemy aircraft a big deal, Scud/MRBM attacks and airborne assaults. Much of the TA was focused on NATO missions too and that was most of the better-trained units as well. Pretty much all of the available ground force's armour and artillery was to be sent abroad. What was left would be light infantry. Ulster could be stripped of troops and so too what was in Canada/Cyprus/Brunei/Hong Kong... but the country would be in dire straits.
Let me think some more on this.

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 19:31:15 GMT James G said:

Let me think some more on this.

Thanks i am thinking of this a lot sins you started posting your excellent timeline, i know one thing the British would have seen the British Army on the Rhine lost due to heavy fighting on mainland West Europe and if it was evacuated like the BEF almost 40 years ago it would not have been with its heavy equipment. 

[James G]

The losses would be huge too, especially since there was the high state of readiness to move in those reinforcements therefore to get eaten up in your scenario. What might evacuate would be pitiful in the end in terms of numbers and certainly without much equipment, if none at all. It depends on how things would go though.

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 19:44:57 GMT James G said:

The losses would be huge too, especially since there was the high state of readiness to move in those reinforcements therefore to get eaten up in your scenario. What might evacuate would be pitiful in the end in terms of numbers and certainly without much equipment, if none at all. It depends on how things would go though.

The Royal Navy would suffer as well, they need to evacuate the BOAR and any allied forces they can.

The Soviet might not be able to launch, lets call it by your name Operation Sea Bear at once, that will give the British some desperate needed time, also the Canadians might send some reinforcements, so expect a Soviet blockade on the Atlantic to keep anybody from sending aid to the British.

[James G]

Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth would probably send either troops directly or volunteers.
The Soviet naval blockade would probably include warships but with British air power - even diminished - you'd probably be best going with submarines and aircraft for a blockade.

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 20:19:50 GMT James G said:

Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth would probably send either troops directly or volunteers.
The Soviet naval blockade would probably include warships but with British air power - even diminished - you'd probably be best going with submarines and aircraft for a blockade.

Iceland would become a Canadian/British ant-submarine base.

The former West-European countries would operate under British command like the did during World War II, now also including the West Germans.

[James G]

Was the alliance pre-war British dominated? Because Paris wouldn't stand for that! France has long been an equal to Britain.
I can understand a necessary agreement on British command during an evacuation across the Channel though the rumblings of discontent would be quite strong.
Inter-alliance politics & diplomacy would be a minefield.

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 20:49:06 GMT James G said:

Was the alliance pre-war British dominated? Because Paris wouldn't stand for that! France has long been an equal to Britain.
I can understand a necessary agreement on British command during an evacuation across the Channel though the rumblings of discontent would be quite strong.
Inter-alliance politics & diplomacy would be a minefield.

No what I meant was that all free forces of West European countries who managed to escape oparate one way of form under British command.

[lordroel]

Feb 28, 2018 20:49:06 GMT James G said:

Was the alliance pre-war British dominated? 

Regarding the pre-war alliance being British dominated i do not think so, but the French did not have troops in West Germany, that is not until the Soviets had almost reached the Rhine but by that time even the French could not help step the Soviet tidal wave crashing across West Europe.

[James G]

You would probably expect to see resistance spring up across occupied parts of WE. guerrillas and partisans would be active. It would be a dirty war too with fake guerrilla groups set up by the KGB and false flag atrocities as well.

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2018 4:48:09 GMT lordroel said:

Feb 28, 2018 20:49:06 GMT James G said:

Was the alliance pre-war British dominated? 

Regarding the pre-war alliance being British dominated i do not think so, but the French did not have troops in West Germany, that is not until the Soviets had almost reached the Rhine but by that time even the French could not help step the Soviet tidal wave crashing across West Europe.

I presume not one Red Army boot touched French soil, otherwise the thermonuclear balloon would have gone up.

[James G]

That is up to lordroel who created this war universe.
I'm going with the Soviets did, France was ready to launch (not something I agree with), a change of government occurred, no nukes flew and the legitimate French government left for the UK.
But I'll wait on the admiral as it is his story.

[lordroel]

Mar 1, 2018 10:51:18 GMT James G said:

That is up to lordroel who created this war universe.
I'm going with the Soviets did, France was ready to launch (not something I agree with), a change of government occurred, no nukes flew and the legitimate French government left for the UK.
But I'll wait on the admiral as it is his story.

That sounds good.

Also was thinking with the United States going back to being isolated from the outside word and before the outbreak of the Euro-Soviet War the British replaced the Americans in South Korea with the British Army of Korea.

[Deleted]

The French Army would have launched its tactical nuclear weapons if French territorial integrity seemed under threat.

Soviet troops crossing the Rhine would be that indicator

Britain and West Germany would have launched theirs long before that