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Post by justiniano on May 13, 2022 20:59:16 GMT
Let's say some of the countries within what we today call the Philippines (perhaps Ifuoga or Tondo) traded some goods for weapons that utilize gun power with China around the same time central Asia got exposed to weapons that utilize gun powder? And learned how to manufacture their own before the 1430s. Personally I think that the Philippines would end up developing almost as high quality guns as Europe did since there'd be multiple gun-powder fueled factions fighting each other (and hence having to innovate) on the archipelago
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 14, 2022 0:56:21 GMT
Let's say some of the countries within what we today call the Philippines (perhaps Ifuoga or Tondo) traded some goods for weapons that utilize gun power with China around the same time central Asia got exposed to weapons that utilize gun powder? And learned how to manufacture their own before the 1430s. Personally I think that the Philippines would end up developing almost as high quality guns as Europe did since there'd be multiple gun-powder fueled factions fighting each other (and hence having to innovate) on the archipelago I suspect that the san yan chong might be the most common gunpowder weapon of the Ming Dynasty. Even without the gunpowder weaponry, the lands of what became the Philippines still managed to resist European colonization, mainly because of their familiarity with various gunpowder weapons that they didn't shake and run away from Spanish muskets and cannons. The warriors led by Lapu Lapu had iron weapons, which was in contrast to the Mesoamerican civilizations that may not have any access to iron. |
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Post by justiniano on May 14, 2022 2:14:38 GMT
TheRomanSlayer, Can they resist european colonization for good in this timeline? How would their gunpowder weaponry evolve? And What would the Philippines be like today?
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 14, 2022 2:44:06 GMT
TheRomanSlayer , Can they resist european colonization for good in this timeline? How would their gunpowder weaponry evolve? And What would the Philippines be like today? Only thing is, the lone source of gunpowder technology in all of Asia was the Ming, so if the lands of what is now the Philippines resisted European colonization, it would remain divided between the Bruneians (which controlled the area of what is now Manila), southern Palawan, and has certain amount of control over the Sulu Sultanate, and the Ming itself (Caboloan and Ma-i would be tributary states). Over time, it would become more contested between the Ming and other newcomers. Although I could also see parts of Luzon other than Pangasinan become a pirate kingdom. Aparri, from what I read up in its origins, was a Japanese trading post, so perhaps an ambitious Japanese pirate sets up a Wokou kingdom in what is essentially northeastern Luzon. However, the search for the Spice Islands wouldn't stop various European powers from trying their luck at colonizing the lands of what became the Philippines. Keep in mind that absent of any European colonization of OTL Philippines may also result in a Muslim majority population of that region, or somehow Buddhism becomes a major religion there, depending on whichever Asian power colonizes it. |
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Post by justiniano on May 14, 2022 3:45:48 GMT
the lone source of gunpowder technology in all of Asia was the Ming Not true, by the 14th century some of central asia and the middle east was using gunpowder weren't they? so if the lands of what is now the Philippines resisted European colonization Do you think the philippines would resist? All of the philippines? Some of it? Most of it? or do u think it would all get conquered as it was in otl depending on whichever Asian power colonizes it. Do you believe that if a european power doesn't an asian power definitely would? It seems like it from what you typed here to me but I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 14, 2022 3:57:17 GMT
Back then, the lands that became the Philippines consisted of several small states, though I'm not sure if they were allied to each other or not. The Ming were developing their gunpowder tech, but I also agree that the MidEast and Central Asia were also developing their own gunpowder technology. The Ottomans are a prime example of this.
As for the conquest, I suspect that if another European power would come knocking, the states that were not Muslim might end up allying with them against the local Islamic powers.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on May 14, 2022 8:58:23 GMT
I think a more compelling way to prevent the Spanish conquest is for the Portuguese exploration of Luzon by Pero Fidalgo to be a common knowledge, although Visayas would likely be Spanish in this scenario.
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575
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Post by 575 on May 14, 2022 10:25:02 GMT
the lone source of gunpowder technology in all of Asia was the Ming Not true, by the 14th century some of central asia and the middle east was using gunpowder weren't they? justiniano
You can't state a NO and then turn your sentence into a question! This deprive Your statement of any kind of validity.
You don't have to supply me with a source for any statement You write but please be consistent.
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Post by justiniano on May 14, 2022 14:04:27 GMT
You can't state a NO and then turn your sentence into a question! This deprive Your statement of any kind of validity. Sorry, I just think that TheRomanSlayer is wrong. But I'm open minded so what I'm basically saying is, I think you're wrong but feel free to prove yourself right. How would you have worded it? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 15, 2022 7:23:25 GMT
You can't state a NO and then turn your sentence into a question! This deprive Your statement of any kind of validity. Sorry, I just think that TheRomanSlayer is wrong. But I'm open minded so what I'm basically saying is, I think you're wrong but feel free to prove yourself right. How would you have worded it?
Also changing the OP into something new is not how it works, going to give you a WARNING for this, stay on track and respect other members, if you think they are wrong, do what i say in the first line i wrote ore do not respond at all. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on May 15, 2022 7:28:37 GMT
The pre-Hispanic natives did not have any access to gun powder unless if the Chinese merchants gave them that. So our ancestors would be stuck to using bows, spears, and slingshots as ranged weapons.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on May 15, 2022 8:24:09 GMT
The trouble is that we hardly have any records that detailed the histories of the pre-Hispanic states in what is now OTL Philippines, aside from hardly understandable history of certain states like Maynila, Tondo, Selurong, and others. Also, OTL Philippines is sitting at the heart of the Pacific maritime trade, meaning that we’d engage in trade with China, Japan, the other kingdoms of SE Asia, and so on. That geographic position is the main reason why we’d fall to the inevitable European colonization. And would it be in the interest of the Ming to share their gunpowder technology with their vassals? Central Asia and the Middle East are long ways from the Philippines.
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Post by justiniano on May 15, 2022 15:44:15 GMT
The pre-Hispanic natives did not have any access to gun powder unless if the Chinese merchants gave them that. That's why I said in my OP that the Filipinos buy them |
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Post by justiniano on May 15, 2022 15:48:42 GMT
TL Philippines is sitting at the heart of the Pacific maritime trade, meaning that we’d engage in trade with China, Japan, the other kingdoms of SE Asia, and Exactly, that means they can buy firearms from China, |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on May 15, 2022 16:38:54 GMT
TL Philippines is sitting at the heart of the Pacific maritime trade, meaning that we’d engage in trade with China, Japan, the other kingdoms of SE Asia, and Exactly, that means they can buy firearms from China, Were there any cases of Filipinos buying muskets or cannons from the ancient Chinese? |
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