What if: United States invades Brazil (1942)

[lordroel]

What if: United States invades Brazil (1942)

The possibility that Brazil entered the Second World War with Germany was very worrying to he United States, because of its probable impact on the Atlantic navigation and the geographic location of the South American country, which represented an enormous potential strategic base for the Axis. This led the US military to design a plan of invasion that was called Plan Rubber which would see the occupation of the Northern coast of Brazil during World War II.



In fact, this approach was first shaped by the so-called Rainbow Plan (1939), which sought to militarily secure the northwestern part of Brazil, because that area significantly shortened the distance traveled between America and Africa, apart from constituting a stopover towards the Pacific. The fact that at the head of the Brazilian government was a fascist dictator, Getulio Vargas , and that in 1941 he had denied the United States the establishment of its soldiers on the bases of its territory, by the North American and British obstacles in the supply of The weapons with which to modernize their backward army (which the Germans offered to do more efficiently), made the situation even more tense even though relations between the two nations had been cordial since the previous century (Brazil even participated in the First World War on the Allied side).

In reality, the Brazilian military was divided between alíádofilos (mainly the navy and the air force) and supporters of the Axis (land army and especially the one of the south part, that was where the bulk was congregated to defend the borders and where Most of the 1.5 million Brazilians of German descent lived).

For all this, after the attack on Pearl Harbor and, above all, when a Nazi plot in Uruguay came to light, “Plan Rubber,” ore the full title of the plan being "Joint Basic Plan for the Occupation of Northern Brazil [Joint], Serial 737 of 21 December 1941" was written which called for 64,000 United States Marines to land in Brazil and on an outlying island to secure the vital airfields. The primary target was the airport at Natal, the primary airfield in the transatlantic link. Other mainland targets were Salvador in the south and Belém in the north, and also Fernando de Noronha Island (an island in the middle of the ocean where, in addition, it was feared that the German navy would install a base For your U-boat operations). 

The clear objective of the United States invasion of Brazil is evidenced from the following two maps:

Map I



Map II



The plan contemplated the artillery coverage of the battleship USS Texas and the aerial bombardment by aircraft operating from the aircraft carrier USS Ranger. The forces destined for the assault were the 1st and 5th Marine Division plus the 9th Infantry Division, which even came to conduct a drill in Virginia.

Because one thing was theory and another was practice. Except Salvador, which had large beaches, the rest of the sites had beaches too small and strongly hit by the sea or even belts of reefs that would hinder any amphibious operation, forcing the boats to leave the boats at a great distance from the shore (Up to 9 miles); Not to mention the fact that the landing points were very far from the cities and, therefore, from the airports, which were the objective after all. And then there was the geography, which would be another problem because urban areas used to be surrounded by easily defensible hills.

Brazil who navy could oppose the United States landing was little and outdated:

2 battleships: Minas Geraes and São Paulo.

2 light cruisers:  Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul.

10 destroyers: Pará, Piaui, Amazonas, Mato Grosso, Rio Grande do Norte, Paraiba, Alagoas, Santa Catharina, Parana and Maranhão. 

4 submarines: Tupy, Humaitá, Tymbira and Tamoyo.

The Brazil navy also was made up of other smaller ships, the Brazil Air force was made up of 330 aircraft but many of these were obsolete fighters and bombers. The number of aircraft that were reported as being in service at the time of Plan Rubber were as follows:

Fighters

Boeing 256 (export version of the Boeing F4B) - 14.

Boeing 69 (export version of the Boeing F2B) - 46.

Attack Bombers

Vultee V-11 Bomber - 18.

Vultee V-11 Torpedo Bomber - 12.

North American NA-44 - 6.

Fairey Gordon - 10.

The Brazilian Air Force was concentrated mainly in the south, but could be quickly mobilized and sent northward. In the regions to be seized.

The Brazilian Army could mobilize a total of 16,700 soldiers in the area (3,500 troops at Natal, 2,900 at Fortaleza, 5,500 at Recife, 3,500 at Salvador and 1,300 at Belém), in addition to those that moved from the south - with many problems, given the poor communications and territorial immensity. Likewise, the coastline was studded with sporadic and irregular defensive installations with 75 mm guns and machine guns; Fernando de Noronha which was a penal colony with only 65 guards, 600 inmates and 900 other inhabitants, but its airfield meant it could be reinforced rapidly by air. There were also a number of shore defense installations, but the status of these was largely unknown to United States planners, and indeed it is very difficult to get reliable information on them even today. It is known that the Brazilians had drawn up plans for defenses by mounting 12" and 6" guns, supported by mobile batteries with 75 mm guns and machine guns. Whether these were in place at the time Plan Rubber was due to start is a matter of some debate. However, the Brazilians were as aware as anyone of the limitations on littoral operations imposed by their geography and as such it is likely that, had word of Plan Rubber been leaked, that at least some form of defense would have awaited the attacking Americans

In the end it was not necessary to activate the Rubber Plan and, even with stripes and loops, diplomacy solved the issue. In December 1941 Undersecretary of State Welles succeeded in allowing Vargas to agree that in the Brazilian airfields there would be Marines disguised as mechanics with the mission of supervising and avoiding the penetration of Nazi agents. In exchange, Roosevelt authorized the export to the South American country of material, instructors and modern armament to definitively appeal to its military.

[doug181]

Use paratroopers to seize airfields concurrent with landings still a mess. If Brazilian battleships are actually seaworthy they could give Texas a hard time.

[lordroel]

Jun 28, 2017 13:42:25 GMT doug181 said:

Use paratroopers to seize airfields concurrent with landings still a mess. If Brazilian battleships are actually seaworthy they could give Texas a hard time.

I think the USS Texas and USS Ranger will have a lot of escorts with them so if they are attacked by the two Brazilian battleships, i see them sinking.

[Robert Smith]

Wonderful article with great information ... some comments...

As for the navy.... At that time, all the main units mention were still from the 1910 fleet acquired from Britain... the Battleships (20.000 tons, 12 x 12 inch + 22 x 4.7 inch, 21 knots wen new), Minais Gerias, modernized 1934-37, could barely steam at better than 12 knots and the São Paulo could safely move only if accompanied by tugs and neither had modern fire control for its guns or adequate anti-aircraft armament, the cruisers Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul (3500 tons, 10 x 4.7 in guns, 27 knots in better days) could hardly be expected to fight a modern US destroyer and win let alone a US cruiser or Battleship... the destroyers (560 tons, 2 x 4 inch, 2 x 18 inch torpedos, capable of 27 knots when new) were hopelessly outclassed!

The Air force had just been created (20/01/1941) and was still in development! all the aircraft available were outdated models and if all were serviceable and concentrated in the north-east they would not be able to defeat the Rangers air-group!

The army, given time to concentrate and prepare defensive positions, at the start would give such a invasion force some decent opposition, but lack of adequate air support and resources such as weapons, munitions and other supplies, in time, certainly would have made the outcome a foregone conclusion...

All that said the best resource available to Brazil would be the soldiers, airmen and sailors that, in spite of all the drawbacks and lack of resources would have fought bravely and given the invasion force a hard time.

As far as the Invasion Force itself, given the strategic compromisses of the US forces at the time, I wonder were would the US would find 60.000 plus troops in December 1941 to invade Brazil? I strongly believe that the force described, at the time, was meant only as a tactic, a bargaining tool to help "convince" Mr. Getúlio, who was not a fool, to side with the US and alies.

In spite of a perceived inclination towards the dictatorial regimes of Hitler and Mussolini, like I've said before, Mr. Getúlio was not a fool... given the geographical position of Brasil and the distance from Europe and, specifically Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, the complete control of the Atlantic Ocean by the British and American Navies... there was no possibility of them helping the Brazilian regime of Mr. Getúlio with supplies of weapons and what not... nor could Brazil hope to send its products to Germany or Italy.... Brazil could barely keep open its communications in peace time with its on territories in the north-east and Amazon regions that were 95% by sea... there was no hope of doing so under a blockade by US and British navies...

So Mr. Getúlio did what was best for Brazil and his regime... played hard to get and got from the US, as conditions for their use of air bases in the north east and Brazil eventual full participation in the war against the fascist, not only the modernization of the army, navy and air force but also the Volta Redonda steal plants that kicked of the industrialization of Brazil.

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2017 14:11:38 GMT Robert Smith said:

As far as the Invasion Force itself, given the strategic compromisses of the US forces at the time, I wonder were would the US would find 60.000 plus troops in December 1941 to invade Brazil? 

I wonder how many troops are needed to occupy Brazil.

[Robert Smith]

Jun 20, 2017 15:48:17 GMT lordroel said:

What if: United States invades Brazil (1942)



The possibility that Brazil entered the Second World War with Germany was very worrying to he United States, because of its probable impact on the Atlantic navigation and the geographic location of the South American country, which represented an enormous potential strategic base for the Axis. This led the US military to design a plan of invasion that was called Plan Rubber which would see the occupation of the Northern coast of Brazil during World War II.


In fact, this approach was first shaped by the so-called Rainbow Plan (1939), which sought to militarily secure the northwestern part of Brazil, because that area significantly shortened the distance traveled between America and Africa, apart from constituting a stopover towards the Pacific. The fact that at the head of the Brazilian government was a fascist dictator, Getulio Vargas , and that in 1941 he had denied the United States the establishment of its soldiers on the bases of its territory, by the North American and British obstacles in the supply of The weapons with which to modernize their backward army (which the Germans offered to do more efficiently), made the situation even more tense even though relations between the two nations had been cordial since the previous century (Brazil even participated in the First World War on the Allied side).

In reality, the Brazilian military was divided between alíádofilos (mainly the navy and the air force) and supporters of the Axis (land army and especially the one of the south part, that was where the bulk was congregated to defend the borders and where Most of the 1.5 million Brazilians of German descent lived).

For all this, after the attack on Pearl Harbor and, above all, when a Nazi plot in Uruguay came to light, “Plan Rubber,” ore the full title of the plan being "Joint Basic Plan for the Occupation of Northern Brazil [Joint], Serial 737 of 21 December 1941" was written which called for 64,000 United States Marines to land in Brazil and on an outlying island to secure the vital airfields. The primary target was the airport at Natal, the primary airfield in the transatlantic link. Other mainland targets were Salvador in the south and Belém in the north, and also Fernando de Noronha Island (an island in the middle of the ocean where, in addition, it was feared that the German navy would install a base For your U-boat operations). 

The clear objective of the United States invasion of Brazil is evidenced from the following two maps:

Map I


Map II



The plan contemplated the artillery coverage of the battleship USS Texas and the aerial bombardment by aircraft operating from the aircraft carrier USS Ranger. The forces destined for the assault were the 1st and 5th Marine Division plus the 9th Infantry Division, which even came to conduct a drill in Virginia.

Because one thing was theory and another was practice. Except Salvador, which had large beaches, the rest of the sites had beaches too small and strongly hit by the sea or even belts of reefs that would hinder any amphibious operation, forcing the boats to leave the boats at a great distance from the shore (Up to 9 miles); Not to mention the fact that the landing points were very far from the cities and, therefore, from the airports, which were the objective after all. And then there was the geography, which would be another problem because urban areas used to be surrounded by easily defensible hills.

Brazil who navy could oppose the United States landing was little and outdated:

2 battleships: Minas Geraes and São Paulo.

2 light cruisers:  Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul.

9 destroyers: Pará, Piaui, Amazonas, Mato Grosso, Rio Grande do Norte, Paraiba, Alagoas, Santa Catharina and Parana.

3 submarines: Tupy, Tymbira and Tamoyo.

The Brazil navy also was made up of other smaller ships, the Brazil Air force was made up of 330 aircraft but many of these were obsolete fighters and bombers. The number of aircraft that were reported as being in service at the time of Plan Rubber were as follows:

Fighters

Boeing 256 (export version of the Boeing F4B) - 14.

Boeing 69 (export version of the Boeing F2B) - 46.

Attack Bombers

Vultee V-11 Bomber - 18.

Vultee V-11 Torpedo Bomber - 12.

North American NA-44 - 6.

Fairey Gordon - 10.

The Brazilian Air Force was concentrated mainly in the south, but could be quickly mobilized and sent northward. In the regions to be seized.

The Brazilian Army could mobilize a total of 16,700 soldiers in the area (3,500 troops at Natal, 2,900 at Fortaleza, 5,500 at Recife, 3,500 at Salvador and 1,300 at Belém), in addition to those that moved from the south - with many problems, given the poor communications and territorial immensity. Likewise, the coastline was studded with sporadic and irregular defensive installations with 75 mm guns and machine guns; Fernando de Noronha which was a penal colony with only 65 guards, 600 inmates and 900 other inhabitants, but its airfield meant it could be reinforced rapidly by air. There were also a number of shore defense installations, but the status of these was largely unknown to United States planners, and indeed it is very difficult to get reliable information on them even today. It is known that the Brazilians had drawn up plans for defenses by mounting 12" and 6" guns, supported by mobile batteries with 75 mm guns and machine guns. Whether these were in place at the time Plan Rubber was due to start is a matter of some debate. However, the Brazilians were as aware as anyone of the limitations on littoral operations imposed by their geography and as such it is likely that, had word of Plan Rubber been leaked, that at least some form of defense would have awaited the attacking Americans

In the end it was not necessary to activate the Rubber Plan and, even with stripes and loops, diplomacy solved the issue. In December 1941 Undersecretary of State Welles succeeded in allowing Vargas to agree that in the Brazilian airfields there would be Marines disguised as mechanics with the mission of supervising and avoiding the penetration of Nazi agents. In exchange, Roosevelt authorized the export to the South American country of material, instructors and modern armament to definitively appeal to its military.

Forgot to list the destroyer Maranhão (ex-British Porpoise)  and the submarine Humaitá! 

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2017 14:24:16 GMT Robert Smith said:

Jun 20, 2017 15:48:17 GMT lordroel said:

What if: United States invades Brazil (1942)



The possibility that Brazil entered the Second World War with Germany was very worrying to he United States, because of its probable impact on the Atlantic navigation and the geographic location of the South American country, which represented an enormous potential strategic base for the Axis. This led the US military to design a plan of invasion that was called Plan Rubber which would see the occupation of the Northern coast of Brazil during World War II.


In fact, this approach was first shaped by the so-called Rainbow Plan (1939), which sought to militarily secure the northwestern part of Brazil, because that area significantly shortened the distance traveled between America and Africa, apart from constituting a stopover towards the Pacific. The fact that at the head of the Brazilian government was a fascist dictator, Getulio Vargas , and that in 1941 he had denied the United States the establishment of its soldiers on the bases of its territory, by the North American and British obstacles in the supply of The weapons with which to modernize their backward army (which the Germans offered to do more efficiently), made the situation even more tense even though relations between the two nations had been cordial since the previous century (Brazil even participated in the First World War on the Allied side).

In reality, the Brazilian military was divided between alíádofilos (mainly the navy and the air force) and supporters of the Axis (land army and especially the one of the south part, that was where the bulk was congregated to defend the borders and where Most of the 1.5 million Brazilians of German descent lived).

For all this, after the attack on Pearl Harbor and, above all, when a Nazi plot in Uruguay came to light, “Plan Rubber,” ore the full title of the plan being "Joint Basic Plan for the Occupation of Northern Brazil [Joint], Serial 737 of 21 December 1941" was written which called for 64,000 United States Marines to land in Brazil and on an outlying island to secure the vital airfields. The primary target was the airport at Natal, the primary airfield in the transatlantic link. Other mainland targets were Salvador in the south and Belém in the north, and also Fernando de Noronha Island (an island in the middle of the ocean where, in addition, it was feared that the German navy would install a base For your U-boat operations). 

The clear objective of the United States invasion of Brazil is evidenced from the following two maps:

Map I


Map II



The plan contemplated the artillery coverage of the battleship USS Texas and the aerial bombardment by aircraft operating from the aircraft carrier USS Ranger. The forces destined for the assault were the 1st and 5th Marine Division plus the 9th Infantry Division, which even came to conduct a drill in Virginia.

Because one thing was theory and another was practice. Except Salvador, which had large beaches, the rest of the sites had beaches too small and strongly hit by the sea or even belts of reefs that would hinder any amphibious operation, forcing the boats to leave the boats at a great distance from the shore (Up to 9 miles); Not to mention the fact that the landing points were very far from the cities and, therefore, from the airports, which were the objective after all. And then there was the geography, which would be another problem because urban areas used to be surrounded by easily defensible hills.

Brazil who navy could oppose the United States landing was little and outdated:

2 battleships: Minas Geraes and São Paulo.

2 light cruisers:  Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul.

9 destroyers: Pará, Piaui, Amazonas, Mato Grosso, Rio Grande do Norte, Paraiba, Alagoas, Santa Catharina and Parana.

3 submarines: Tupy, Tymbira and Tamoyo.

The Brazil navy also was made up of other smaller ships, the Brazil Air force was made up of 330 aircraft but many of these were obsolete fighters and bombers. The number of aircraft that were reported as being in service at the time of Plan Rubber were as follows:

Fighters

Boeing 256 (export version of the Boeing F4B) - 14.

Boeing 69 (export version of the Boeing F2B) - 46.

Attack Bombers

Vultee V-11 Bomber - 18.

Vultee V-11 Torpedo Bomber - 12.

North American NA-44 - 6.

Fairey Gordon - 10.

The Brazilian Air Force was concentrated mainly in the south, but could be quickly mobilized and sent northward. In the regions to be seized.

The Brazilian Army could mobilize a total of 16,700 soldiers in the area (3,500 troops at Natal, 2,900 at Fortaleza, 5,500 at Recife, 3,500 at Salvador and 1,300 at Belém), in addition to those that moved from the south - with many problems, given the poor communications and territorial immensity. Likewise, the coastline was studded with sporadic and irregular defensive installations with 75 mm guns and machine guns; Fernando de Noronha which was a penal colony with only 65 guards, 600 inmates and 900 other inhabitants, but its airfield meant it could be reinforced rapidly by air. There were also a number of shore defense installations, but the status of these was largely unknown to United States planners, and indeed it is very difficult to get reliable information on them even today. It is known that the Brazilians had drawn up plans for defenses by mounting 12" and 6" guns, supported by mobile batteries with 75 mm guns and machine guns. Whether these were in place at the time Plan Rubber was due to start is a matter of some debate. However, the Brazilians were as aware as anyone of the limitations on littoral operations imposed by their geography and as such it is likely that, had word of Plan Rubber been leaked, that at least some form of defense would have awaited the attacking Americans

In the end it was not necessary to activate the Rubber Plan and, even with stripes and loops, diplomacy solved the issue. In December 1941 Undersecretary of State Welles succeeded in allowing Vargas to agree that in the Brazilian airfields there would be Marines disguised as mechanics with the mission of supervising and avoiding the penetration of Nazi agents. In exchange, Roosevelt authorized the export to the South American country of material, instructors and modern armament to definitively appeal to its military.

Forgot to list the destroyer Maranhão (ex-British Porpoise)  and the submarine Humaitá! 

Well, thanks will ad them, but that still gives Brazil only 10 destroyers and 4 submarines versus what the United States Navy send their way.

[Robert Smith]

Sept 1, 2017 14:20:03 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:11:38 GMT Robert Smith said:

As far as the Invasion Force itself, given the strategic compromisses of the US forces at the time, I wonder were would the US would find 60.000 plus troops in December 1941 to invade Brazil? 

I wonder how many troops are needed to occupy Brazil.

Hum.... I'd say definitely a lot less than 60.000... it would depend on the objectives...  to take and hold the airfields at Macapá, Belem, Fortaleza and Natal and perimeter having and maintaining control of the air and sea lanes... some 25.000 would do...  

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2017 14:28:28 GMT Robert Smith said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:20:03 GMT lordroel said:

I wonder how many troops are needed to occupy Brazil.

Hum.... I'd say definitely a lot less than 60.000... it would depend on the objectives...  to take and hold the airfields at Macapá, Belem, Fortaleza and Natal and perimeter having and maintaining control of the air and sea lanes... some 25.000 would do...  

So who would be a good candidate to become president of a new Brazil, of course he has to be pro-American.

[Robert Smith]

Sept 1, 2017 14:31:55 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:28:28 GMT Robert Smith said:

Hum.... I'd say definitely a lot less than 60.000... it would depend on the objectives...  to take and hold the airfields at Macapá, Belem, Fortaleza and Natal and perimeter having and maintaining control of the air and sea lanes... some 25.000 would do...  

So who would be a good candidate to become president of a new Brazil, of course he has to be pro-American.

Hum.... kind of hard to chose at the moment... unfortunately all names presently on the horizon are in one way or another involved with the coruption scandals... actually anyone involved at all with politics in Brazil are...  


Mr. Alckimin, São Paulo state governor, and Mr. Doria, Mayor of the city of São Paulo (capital of same state) would apear to be taking the early lead.... Mr. Lula is trying some kind of come back but don't think he will be eligible since hes been convicted to 9 years in prison... Mr. Neves, senator from Minais Gerais state, was a strong favorite early in the year.... but he was involved deeply in a murky corruption plot out of "House of Cards" .... so his name is, for now anyway, is put aside...

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2017 15:03:13 GMT Robert Smith said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:31:55 GMT lordroel said:

So who would be a good candidate to become president of a new Brazil, of course he has to be pro-American.

Hum.... kind of hard to chose at the moment... unfortunately all names presently on the horizon are in one way or another involved with the coruption scandals... actually anyone involved at all with politics in Brazil are...  


Mr. Alckimin, São Paulo state governor, and Mr. Doria, Mayor of the city of São Paulo (capital of same state) would apear to be taking the early lead.... Mr. Lula is trying some kind of come back but don't think he will be eligible since hes been convicted to 9 years in prison... Mr. Neves, senator from Minais Gerais state, was a strong favorite early in the year.... but he was involved deeply in a murky corruption plot out of "House of Cards" .... so his name is, for now anyway, is put aside...

Well of course i can assume that the United States expect Brazil new government (who ever is going to lead it) to declare war onto the Axis and fully commit to the war.

[Robert Smith]

Sept 1, 2017 14:26:15 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:24:16 GMT Robert Smith said:

Forgot to list the destroyer Maranhão (ex-British Porpoise)  and the submarine Humaitá! 

Well, thanks will ad them, but that still gives Brazil only 10 destroyers and 4 submarines versus what the United States Navy send their way.

True... the Brazilian armed forces were totally unprepared for war in 1941.

With no exaggeration or disrespect a couple of modern US cruisers (say Saint Louis class, fifteen 6 inch guns) and a dozen destroyers, with proper air and logistic support would be more than sufficient to destroy the entire Brazilian fleet and effectively blockaded the Brazilian coast.... 

The ten Brazilian Destroyers and two cruisers available, by 1941, could hardly be classed as such... at 560  tons, capable of only 27 knots and armed with only two 4 inch guns and two 18 inch torpedos and the cruisers at 3500 tons armed with ten 4.7 inch guns... they would be little more than target practice for US Cruisers and Destroyers like the Mahan Class DD, 35 knots, armed with five 5 inch gus (that out ranged the Brazilian ships armament) with modern fire control and twelve 21 inch torpedos that had much great range and speed when compared with the 18 inch torpedos on Brazilian Destroyers and cruisers  ... the Brazilian destroyers and cruisers could at best be used as coastal escort for slow convoys and the two Battleships as stationary coastal artillery, as in fact they eventually were used when Brazil joined the alies in August 1942.

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2017 15:38:58 GMT Robert Smith said:

Sept 1, 2017 14:26:15 GMT lordroel said:

Well, thanks will ad them, but that still gives Brazil only 10 destroyers and 4 submarines versus what the United States Navy send their way.

With no exaggeration or disrespect a couple of modern US cruisers (say Saint Louis class, fifteen 6 inch guns) and a dozen destroyers, with proper air and logistic support would be more than sufficient to destroy the entire Brazilian fleet and effectively blockaded the Brazilian coast.... 

Well i do not think the entire Brazil Navy will go what only can be a suicide mission to defeat the United States Navy invasion force consisting of the battleship USS Texas and aircraft carrier USS Ranger and their escorts which most likely will be larger than the entire Brazil Navy.

I do wonder if the German Kriegsmarine has some of their submarines in the area to give, what i can only describe as moral support in trying to sink some of the ships (mostly the transport ships transporting the 1st, 5th Marine Division and the 9th Infantry Division) which make up the United States Navy invasion force.