What if: British plan to invade Ireland in 1940

[lordroel]

What if: British plan to invade Ireland in 1940

Churchill had many plans during World War II, including a preventive war with the Soviet Union after the fall of Nazi Germany-as did every other leader, but while we now about the German plan to invade Ireland during World War II in Operation Green, it seems that Churchill also had made a plan to invade Ireland as in 1940, he was urged to invade Ireland by Northern Ireland Prime Minister Lord Craigavon, AKA James Craig, a rock ribbed unionist, who believed that Eamon De Valera, the Irish prime minister, had fallen under Nazi sway and a crossborder invasion was needed to remove him and thus he urged Churchill to send British troops composed chiefly of Scottish and Welsh divisions to install a military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin who would secure the valuable naval bases along the Irish coastline.

Craigavon also told Churchill that distributing propaganda leaflets in Gaelic and English should be used to persuade the Irish that the Scottish and Welsh divisions were there to defend them. Churchill did not do much at first with this invasion idea but later prepared detailed plans for an invasion of southern Ireland.

Field Marshal Montgomery stated in his memoirs: “I was told to prepare plans for the seizure of Cork and Queenstown in southern Ireland so the harbors could be used as naval bases.”

Any invasion of Ireland by Scottish and Welsh divisions would be over quickly with them being able to take control over the country with out much resistance, but for the IRA this would an absolute gift who would have launched waves after wave of guerrilla attacks. “Occupying Ireland would have been an extremely messy and costly undertaking.”

Also attempting to “camouflage” a British invasion by using Scottish or Welsh divisions would have backfired as “Many of the Black and Tans, the British auxiliaries sent to suppress Irish independence, were Scots and they had an appalling reputation”.

In the end this plan was never implemented, Ireland stayed neutral throughout the war, but Irish prime minister De Valera did offend London by offering his condolences to the German ambassador in Dublin on the death of Hitler.

[stevep]

Aug 15, 2017 15:35:01 GMT lordroel said:

What if: British plan to invade Ireland in 1940

Churchill had many plans during World War II, including a preventive war with the Soviet Union after the fall of Nazi Germany-as did every other leader, but while we now about the German plan to invade Ireland during World War II in Operation Green, it seems that Churchill also had made a plan to invade Ireland as in 1940, he was urged to invade Ireland by Northern Ireland Prime Minister Lord Craigavon, AKA James Craig, a rock ribbed unionist, who believed that Eamon De Valera, the Irish prime minister, had fallen under Nazi sway and a crossborder invasion was needed to remove him and thus he urged Churchill to send British troops composed chiefly of Scottish and Welsh divisions to install a military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin who would secure the valuable naval bases along the Irish coastline.

Craigavon also told Churchill that distributing propaganda leaflets in Gaelic and English should be used to persuade the Irish that the Scottish and Welsh divisions were there to defend them. Churchill did not do much at first with this invasion idea but later prepared detailed plans for an invasion of southern Ireland.

Field Marshal Montgomery stated in his memoirs: “I was told to prepare plans for the seizure of Cork and Queenstown in southern Ireland so the harbors could be used as naval bases.”

Any invasion of Ireland by Scottish and Welsh divisions would be over quickly with them being able to take control over the country with out much resistance, but for the IRA this would an absolute gift who would have launched waves after wave of guerrilla attacks. “Occupying Ireland would have been an extremely messy and costly undertaking.”

Also attempting to “camouflage” a British invasion by using Scottish or Welsh divisions would have backfired as “Many of the Black and Tans, the British auxiliaries sent to suppress Irish independence, were Scots and they had an appalling reputation”.

In the end this plan was never implemented, Ireland stayed neutral throughout the war, but Irish prime minister De Valera did offend London by offering his condolences to the German ambassador in Dublin on the death of Hitler.

  It would have been a political disaster, as well as very costly in miliary terms I suspect.  At least unless De Valera clearly moved some way beyond neutrality.  I know there was concern and rumours about German U-boats operating from Irish bases but never seen any significant evidence of this.  Also when the Germans during the blitz accidently bombed Dublin that hardened Irish attitudes towards neutrality, which made any pro-German stance by De Valera more difficult.

[lordroel]

Aug 15, 2017 20:22:21 GMT stevep said:

Aug 15, 2017 15:35:01 GMT lordroel said:

What if: British plan to invade Ireland in 1940

Churchill had many plans during World War II, including a preventive war with the Soviet Union after the fall of Nazi Germany-as did every other leader, but while we now about the German plan to invade Ireland during World War II in Operation Green, it seems that Churchill also had made a plan to invade Ireland as in 1940, he was urged to invade Ireland by Northern Ireland Prime Minister Lord Craigavon, AKA James Craig, a rock ribbed unionist, who believed that Eamon De Valera, the Irish prime minister, had fallen under Nazi sway and a crossborder invasion was needed to remove him and thus he urged Churchill to send British troops composed chiefly of Scottish and Welsh divisions to install a military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin who would secure the valuable naval bases along the Irish coastline.

Craigavon also told Churchill that distributing propaganda leaflets in Gaelic and English should be used to persuade the Irish that the Scottish and Welsh divisions were there to defend them. Churchill did not do much at first with this invasion idea but later prepared detailed plans for an invasion of southern Ireland.

Field Marshal Montgomery stated in his memoirs: “I was told to prepare plans for the seizure of Cork and Queenstown in southern Ireland so the harbors could be used as naval bases.”

Any invasion of Ireland by Scottish and Welsh divisions would be over quickly with them being able to take control over the country with out much resistance, but for the IRA this would an absolute gift who would have launched waves after wave of guerrilla attacks. “Occupying Ireland would have been an extremely messy and costly undertaking.”

Also attempting to “camouflage” a British invasion by using Scottish or Welsh divisions would have backfired as “Many of the Black and Tans, the British auxiliaries sent to suppress Irish independence, were Scots and they had an appalling reputation”.

In the end this plan was never implemented, Ireland stayed neutral throughout the war, but Irish prime minister De Valera did offend London by offering his condolences to the German ambassador in Dublin on the death of Hitler.

  It would have been a political disaster, as well as very costly in miliary terms I suspect.

Wonder what the United States reaction would be.

Also it seems this was more a idea from a Northern Ireland Prime Minister than Churchill himself. 

[stevep]

Aug 16, 2017 2:50:44 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 15, 2017 20:22:21 GMT stevep said:

  It would have been a political disaster, as well as very costly in miliary terms I suspect.

Wonder what the United States reaction would be.

Also it seems this was more a idea from a Northern Ireland Prime Minister than Churchill himself. 

  It would almost certainly be bad.  Even if there was a clear breach of Irish neutrality by Dublin that posed a clear threat to Britain a lot of the Irish-American community and isolationists would almost certainly use it as ammo for their respective 'causes'.

  You would have thought that someone fro Ulster would be more aware of the potential explosive [and counter-productive] effects of such a move.

[lordroel]

Aug 16, 2017 18:48:00 GMT stevep said:

  You would have thought that someone fro Ulster would be more aware of the potential explosive [and counter-productive] effects of such a move.

Well my guess is that he wanted to be the military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin as mention in the article.

[stevep]

Aug 16, 2017 18:53:05 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 16, 2017 18:48:00 GMT stevep said:

  You would have thought that someone fro Ulster would be more aware of the potential explosive [and counter-productive] effects of such a move.

Well my guess is that he wanted to be the military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin as mention in the article.

  That's a definitie possibility.  There may have been resentment at the loss of southern Ireland in the more reactionary elements although to attempt to hold it permanently would have been pretty stupid.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2017 18:31:55 GMT stevep said:

Aug 16, 2017 18:53:05 GMT lordroel said:

Well my guess is that he wanted to be the military governor for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin as mention in the article.

  That's a definitie possibility.  There may have been resentment at the loss of southern Ireland in the more reactionary elements although to attempt to hold it permanently would have been pretty stupid.

It is stupid as by invading Ireland on the pretext of it being pro-Nazi you will push it into the Axis camp, i wonder if the Luftwaffe can air transport some divisions to aid the Irish.  

[stevep]

Aug 19, 2017 3:05:01 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 18, 2017 18:31:55 GMT stevep said:

  That's a definitie possibility.  There may have been resentment at the loss of southern Ireland in the more reactionary elements although to attempt to hold it permanently would have been pretty stupid.

It is stupid as by invading Ireland on the pretext of it being pro-Nazi you will push it into the Axis camp, i wonder if the Luftwaffe can air transport some divisions to aid the Irish.  

  I fully agree on the 1st part.

  On the 2nd I'm not sure the German transports have the range but virtually none of their escorts have so such a mission would be very, very risky.  If intercepted by British a/c the Ju52's would be slaughtered.  Also any such divisions, and I think Germany only had 1-2 were pretty lightly equipped so their staying power against regular units would be limited.

[lordroel]

Aug 19, 2017 21:46:40 GMT stevep said:

Aug 19, 2017 3:05:01 GMT lordroel said:

It is stupid as by invading Ireland on the pretext of it being pro-Nazi you will push it into the Axis camp, i wonder if the Luftwaffe can air transport some divisions to aid the Irish.  

  On the 2nd I'm not sure the German transports have the range but virtually none of their escorts have so such a mission would be very, very risky.  If intercepted by British a/c the Ju52's would be slaughtered.  Also any such divisions, and I think Germany only had 1-2 were pretty lightly equipped so their staying power against regular units would be limited.

But Hitler is known to make crazy ideas like invading Crete, yes it is true the island of Create was located closer to German occupied Greece but still if Hitler had ordered it, i would think the Luftwaffe would try to fulfill it, maybe by causing a massive air attack on England as a diversion so that some of the Ju52's (do not know if they have the range) can drop their payload in Ireland.