Stalin uses his formidable forces in 1937

[simpleton]

OTL in 1937 the USSR had large numbers of the only all metal fighter with retractable landing gear and SBD twin engine bombers. It also had the huge TB-3 to transport troops long distances, more tanks than the rest of the world combined, etc,
Russia had been humiliated and lost territory and its navy to Japan in the early XIX century. Japan had expanded its armed forces enormously with resources from Taiwan, Korea and Manchuria. Should Japan defeat China, it would have even more resources and unlimited human power for its armed forces, war industry, agriculture, etc, Moreover, Japan was friendly with Poland and Germany, so the USSR could be forced to fight in two very distant fronts simultaneously.
 
Moreover, any major failure in the top leadership in combat could justify execution much better than mock trials. Accordingly, Japan decides to put Tukhachevski in charge of a huge army to invade Manchuria, Sakhalin and Korea, while the small IJA is engaged invading China. The USSR will also supply armament, munitions, etc, to China in order to maximize Japanese casulties and supply Chinese Communists only if they stop fighting Chiang and fight in Japanese territory. to aid the USSR.

The USSR promises Roosevelt to arm Cand assist China and to expel Japan from the continent and liberate China, provided the USSR retains Manchuria, Korea and Sakhakin and the USSR ships tractors, trucks, fuel, grain, beef, etc, to Vladivistok for the Ofensive and provides escort for the convoys. China is also to receive  US aid to bleed the IJA. Without Manchuria, Japan will not be able to expand nor attack other countries. If it does, it can be bombed or invaded from Korea.

Tukhachevski deploys 5 divisions and Mongolian cavalry, 1,000 planes and 1,000 tanks to prepare for the attack, as supplies and reinforcements arrive from the erst and US supply reach Vladivostok. He attacks when the Japanese are busy in Shabghai in Oct, 1937 (experiencing heavy losses thanks to generous Soviet aid and air and armor support) and while a larger force is en route from the west.

  Japanese forces are spread thinly along the extremely long Manchurian border and are out flanked or overrun in several key places. Huge TB-3 land thousands of troops deep in Manchuria. They capture vital RR, RR hubs, roads, crossroads, bridges, munitions and supplies depots, disrupt communications, etc, IJA HQ have to redeploy troops from Shanghai, providing a respite for Chiang's beliegered forces), but they take a while to arrive in Manchuria and Korea, so the red army penetrates deeply during the initial weeks. Soviet I-16 quickly anihilates Japanese biplanes and fixed landing gear monoplanes (A5M, Ki 27, bombers, etc,). SBD also destroy many planes on the ground and aviation fuel tanks, runways, barracks, repair shops, etc, Since the IJA depends on RR transportation in Manchuria, RR disruption ruins Japanese supplies and redeployment. IJA troops must march very long distances, using horses to pull equipment to the front, while the red army can fly troops and light artillery and munitions 1,000 km in a day using TB-3. Accordingly, Tukhachevski out maneuvers the IJA all over Manchuria and Korea. Sakhalin falls in 9 days, without any Japanese escaping. 
The weakened IJA offensive on Shanghai stalls and Chiang's forces are able to counter attack with Soviet air and armor support, causing heavy casualties, which the Japanese cannot replace. Eventually, the IJA must withdraw from Shanghai, but the troops cannot be redeployed to Manchuria in time, so they return to Japan. Isolated IJA troops in Manchuria and Korea run out of food and munitions and almost all surrender by Feb, 1938. Japan has lost its source fo soy, grain, opium, coal, metal ores, lumber, and much of its heavy industry.

[lordroel]

Aug 29, 2017 21:47:25 GMT simpleton said:

OTL in 1937 the USSR had large numbers of the only all metal fighter with retractable landing gear and SBD twin engine bombers. It also had the huge TB-3 to transport troops long distances, more tanks than the rest of the world combined, etc,
Russia had been humiliated and lost territory and its navy to Japan in the early XIX century. Japan had expanded its armed forces enormously with resources from Taiwan, Korea and Manchuria. Should Japan defeat China, it would have even more resources and unlimited human power for its armed forces, war industry, agriculture, etc, Moreover, Japan was friendly with Poland and Germany, so the USSR could be forced to fight in two very distant fronts simultaneously.
 
Moreover, any major failure in the top leadership in combat could justify execution much better than mock trials. Accordingly, Japan decides to put Tukhachevski in charge of a huge army to invade Manchuria, Sakhalin and Korea, while the small IJA is engaged invading China. The USSR will also supply armament, munitions, etc, to China in order to maximize Japanese casulties and supply Chinese Communists only if they stop fighting Chiang and fight in Japanese territory. to aid the USSR.

The USSR promises Roosevelt to arm Cand assist China and to expel Japan from the continent and liberate China, provided the USSR retains Manchuria, Korea and Sakhakin and the USSR ships tractors, trucks, fuel, grain, beef, etc, to Vladivistok for the Ofensive and provides escort for the convoys. China is also to receive  US aid to bleed the IJA. Without Manchuria, Japan will not be able to expand nor attack other countries. If it does, it can be bombed or invaded from Korea.

Tukhachevski deploys 5 divisions and Mongolian cavalry, 1,000 planes and 1,000 tanks to prepare for the attack, as supplies and reinforcements arrive from the erst and US supply reach Vladivostok. He attacks when the Japanese are busy in Shabghai in Oct, 1937 (experiencing heavy losses thanks to generous Soviet aid and air and armor support) and while a larger force is en route from the west.

  Japanese forces are spread thinly along the extremely long Manchurian border and are out flanked or overrun in several key places. Huge TB-3 land thousands of troops deep in Manchuria. They capture vital RR, RR hubs, roads, crossroads, bridges, munitions and supplies depots, disrupt communications, etc, IJA HQ have to redeploy troops from Shanghai, providing a respite for Chiang's beliegered forces), but they take a while to arrive in Manchuria and Korea, so the red army penetrates deeply during the initial weeks. Soviet I-16 quickly anihilates Japanese biplanes and fixed landing gear monoplanes (A5M, Ki 27, bombers, etc,). SBD also destroy many planes on the ground and aviation fuel tanks, runways, barracks, repair shops, etc, Since the IJA depends on RR transportation in Manchuria, RR disruption ruins Japanese supplies and redeployment. IJA troops must march very long distances, using horses to pull equipment to the front, while the red army can fly troops and light artillery and munitions 1,000 km in a day using TB-3. Accordingly, Tukhachevski out maneuvers the IJA all over Manchuria and Korea. Sakhalin falls in 9 days, without any Japanese escaping. 
The weakened IJA offensive on Shanghai stalls and Chiang's forces are able to counter attack with Soviet air and armor support, causing heavy casualties, which the Japanese cannot replace. Eventually, the IJA must withdraw from Shanghai, but the troops cannot be redeployed to Manchuria in time, so they return to Japan. Isolated IJA troops in Manchuria and Korea run out of food and munitions and almost all surrender by Feb, 1938. Japan has lost its source fo soy, grain, opium, coal, metal ores, lumber, and much of its heavy industry.

Why would Stalin go to war with Japan, is Germany not the biggest upcoming threat for them.

[simpleton]

Stalin offers Japan an honorable and profitable way out of the war. Instead of capitulating, Japan can join a coalition with China and the USSR to invade and share Portuguese, Britiah, French and Dutch colonies and Thailand. The combination of the mighty Japanese navy. the large Soviet and Chinese armies and the formidable Soviet air force and armor will be invincible for European empires. The USSR will supply Manchurian products to Japan as payment for naval support, 10 long range Japanese submarines, 10 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, aerial, submarine and destroyer torpedoes, training in torpedo and dive bombing for Soviet pilots, etc, The first coalition operation will be the joint invasions of Indochina, Burma, Malaya, Sumatra and Japanese invasion of British Borneo, New Caldonia, New Zealand, Tasmania, Mauritius and Reunion. Chinese invasion of Hong Kong and Soviet invasion of Iran, Iraq and Syria. After securing these weak and invaluable territories, the coalition will invade Ceylon, declare Indian independence and induce India to join the coalition, boosting its formidable army, resurces and bases.
European powers will not have time to send reinforcements, before their colonies fall and will realize that they cannot liberate them against sucg a coalition. The US will not dare declare war on the formidable coalition.

Japan cannot live without Manchurian resources and wants to acquire valuable colonies, so it joins the coalition.

[lordroel]

Aug 30, 2017 19:00:18 GMT simpleton said:

Stalin offers Japan an honorable and profitable way out of the war. Instead of capitulating, Japan can join a coalition with China and the USSR to invade and share Portuguese, Britiah, French and Dutch colonies and Thailand. The combination of the mighty Japanese navy. the large Soviet and Chinese armies and the formidable Soviet air force and armor will be invincible for European empires. The USSR will supply Manchurian products to Japan as payment for naval support, 10 long range Japanese submarines, 10 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, aerial, submarine and destroyer torpedoes, training in torpedo and dive bombing for Soviet pilots, etc, The first coalition operation will be the joint invasions of Indochina, Burma, Malaya, Sumatra and Japanese invasion of British Borneo, New Caldonia, New Zealand, Tasmania, Mauritius and Reunion. Chinese invasion of Hong Kong and Soviet invasion of Iran, Iraq and Syria. After securing these weak and invaluable territories, the coalision will invade Ceylon, declare Indian independence and induce India to join the coalition, boosting its formidable army, resurces and bases.
European powers will not have time to send reinforcements, before their colonies fall and will realize that they cannot liberate them against sucg a coalition. The US will not dare declare war on the formidable coalition.

Japan cannot live without Manchurian resources and wants to acquire valuable colonies, so it joins the coalition.

But the Second Sino-Japanese War only began on July 7, 1937, does this mean the events happens after July 7, 1937.

[simpleton]

lordroel,
Germany, Romania and Poland have small armies at the time, but are expanding them rapidly. As I wrote, Stalin fears eventual war in two distant fronts against strong Germany (posibly joined by Poland, Romania, Turkey, France, Britain, Italy, etc,) and a strong Japan (with acquired Chinese resources and manpower) on the other side. At the time the Chinese army is still strong and the IJA is ridiculous compared to the army. Moreover, if Germany invades the Ukraine, grain, soy, coal, iron and aluminum ores, etc, from Manchuria and Chinese troops (after aiding China against Japan, Chiang wmight send help to the USSR) will be very helpful for the USSR.

[simpleton]

lordroel,
As I wrote, the invasion of Manchuria and Korea starts in Oct 1937, when Japan is engaged in Shanghai and taking heavy casualties, thanks to Soviet artillery, munitions, etc,

[simpleton]

ATL Stalin does not waste forces, munitions, etc,  fighting the Chinese in Xinjiang in 1937, he redirects them to Tukhachevski's force.
OTL the Sino-Soviet non-aggression pact was signed in August, 1937 (after the Japanese invasion). ATL it is signed in Feb, 1937, when Soviet troop deployment to the east is taking place and Soviet armament is arriving in China and for the Chinese Communists, concentrating and training in Mongolia to invade Manchuria.

[lordroel]

Aug 30, 2017 23:17:32 GMT simpleton said:

ATL Stalin does not waste forces, munitions, etc,  fighting the Chinese in Xinjiang in 1937, he redirects them to Tukhachevski's force.
OTL the Sino-Soviet non-aggression pact was signed in August, 1937 (after the Japanese invasion). ATL it is signed in Feb, 1937, when Soviet troop deployment to the east is taking place and Soviet armament is arriving in China and for the Chinese Communists, concentrating and training in Mongolia to invade Manchuria.

Does the Great Purge that began in 1936 in the Soviet Union still go on in 1917 in this universe as that might effect the Soviet Army capabilities.

[simpleton]

The small political purge in 1936 does take place, but the military purge in 1937 does not take place. As stated, Stalin uses Manchuria to test Tukhachevski, any major failure in leadership will result in more justifiable execution than mock trials. On the other hand, if Tukhachevski succeeds, it will make Stalin look good in the USSR, the USA, etc, by redeeming the shameful Russian debacle of the Russo-Japanese war, saving China and ending the joint Japanese-German threat against the USSR. Most importantly, the experience gained by high command, officers and troops in Manchuria, Korea and Sakhalin and then invading European colonies in the far east will prove invaluable in Europe.

[lordroel]

Aug 31, 2017 16:04:30 GMT simpleton said:

The small political purge in 1936 does take place, but the military purge in 1937 does not take place. As stated, Stalin uses Manchuria to test Tukhachevski, any major failure in leadership will result in more justifiable execution than mock trials. On the other hand, if Tukhachevski succeeds, it will make Stalin look good in the USSR, the USA, etc, by redeeming the shameful Russian debacle of the Russo-Japanese war, saving China and ending the joint Japanese-German threat against the USSR. Most importantly, the experience gained by high command, officers and troops in Manchuria, Korea and Sakhalin and then invading European colonies in the far east will prove invaluable in Europe.

So do we see a Soviet puppet state of Manchuria ore will it be turned over to the Chinese Communist after the war.

[simpleton]

After Japan joins the coalition, in Feb 1938 the well armed Chine army and Tukhachevski's strong, experienced force invade French Indochina, Thailand, Hong Kong and N. Burma. While Japan invades weak B. Borneo, Sumatra, Penang, Ceylon, Mauritius, Reunion, New Caledonia, the South Island, NZ, Tasmania, Port Moresby and Rabaul, sinks the RN far east fleet and the Dutch, Australian and New Zealand navies and captures hundreds of allied ships in a month. After these colonies are secured Indian independence is declared and India has to join the coalition in order to receive oil, rice, etc, Indian and Chinese troops invade S. Iran, Arabia, Yemen, and Iraq, while Soviet troops invade N. Iran, Syria and Turkey.

On 12 March 1938, when German troops march into Austria, Soviet troops occupy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Stalin invites Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary to join the mighty Eurasian coalition, stop trading with Germany and buy Soviet I-16 fighters, SBD bombers, plane engines, Soviet armor steel, BT-7 tanks, 13 mm machine guns (which can pierce the armor of Pz I and II), AT, AA, and field artillery, fuel, munitions, etc, paying with horses, agricultural products, minerals, etc, and invade and share Romania first (to deny its oil, grain, etc, to Germany) and then Bulgaria and finally Germany. If Czechioslovakia joins the coalition, it will not only be safe from a German invasion, but it will gain Romanian and German territory (Saxony, etc,). Czechoslovakia promptly joins the coalition and buys 150 I-16, SBD and BT-7, 1,000 13 mm machine guns, etc, greatly boosting its forces.

The coalition relocates 100,000 Germans from Czechoslovakia to the Urals. Poland and Hungary also join the coalition, followed by Yugoslavia.

In April 1938 the coalition rapidly occupies Romania and then Bulgaria.

In May the coalition invades East Prussia, Saxony and Silesia and offers an alliance with France and Italy and planes, etc, so that France can occupy the Saar, Ruhr And Rhineland, and Italy and Yugoslavia can invade S. Austria, stopping German expansion in its tracks. Italy and France don't want the coalition to take over all of Germany without them, so they join it.

Simultaneously with the invasion of Germany, the coalition invades Turkey from all sides, so that coalition ships can sail to and from the Med and Black Seas.

By May 1938 the coalition controls the whole near, middle and far east, DEI, Australia and New Zealand. in July 1938 all Germany is occupied and divided among coalition members. Poland has gained Romanian, Bulgarian and German territory (Silesia and Prussia). Czechoslovakia has gained Saxony and part of Romania and N Austria, Hungary has gained part of Austria, Bulgaria and Romania, Yugoslavia has gained part of Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Austria. The USSR has gained East Prussia, part of Prussia, Hamburg, Friesland, Hannover, Bavaria, etc, Turkey, part of Romania, etc,

[simpleton]

Lordroel,
Manchuria-Korea-Sakhalin are annexed by Russia to complete the redemption of the Russo-Japanese debacle and to prevent eventual Chinese or Japanese expandion.

[lordroel]

Aug 31, 2017 17:08:09 GMT simpleton said:

After Japan joins the coalition, in Feb 1938 the well armed Chine army and Tukhachevski's strong, experienced force invade French Indochina, Thailand, Hong Kong and N. Burma. While Japan invades weak B. Borneo, Sumatra, Penang, Ceylon, Mauritius, Reunion, New Caledonia, the South Island, NZ, Tasmania, Port Moresby and Rabaul, sinks the RN far east fleet and the Dutch, Australian and New Zealand navies and captures hundreds of allied ships in a month. After these colonies are secured Indian independence is declared and India has to join the coalition in order to receive oil, rice, etc, Indian and Chinese troops invade S. Iran, Arabia, Yemen, and Iraq, while Soviet troops invade N. Iran, Syria and Turkey.

On 12 March 1938, when German troops march into Austria, Soviet troops occupy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Stalin invites Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary to join the mighty Eurasian coalition, stop trading with Germany and buy Soviet I-16 fighters, SBD bombers, plane engines, Soviet armor steel, BT-7 tanks, 13 mm machine guns (which can pierce the armor of Pz I and II), AT, AA, and field artillery, fuel, munitions, etc, paying with horses, agricultural products, minerals, etc, and invade and share Romania first (to deny its oil, grain, etc, to Germany) and then Bulgaria and finally Germany. If Czechioslovakia joins the coalition, it will not only be safe from a German invasion, but it will gain Romanian and German territory (Saxony, etc,). Czechoslovakia promptly joins the coalition and buys 150 I-16, SBD and BT-7, 1,000 13 mm machine guns, etc, greatly boosting its forces.

The coalition relocates 100,000 Germans from Czechoslovakia to the Urals. Poland and Hungary also join the coalition, followed by Yugoslavia.

In April 1938 the coalition rapidly occupies Romania and then Bulgaria.

In May the coalition invades East Prussia, Saxony and Silesia and offers an alliance with France and Italy and planes, etc, so that France can occupy the Saar, Ruhr And Rhineland, and Italy and Yugoslavia can invade S. Austria, stopping German expansion in its tracks. Italy and France don't want the coalition to take over all of Germany without them, so they join it.

Simultaneously with the invasion of Germany, the coalition invades Turkey from all sides, so that coalition ships can sail to and from the Med and Black Seas.

By May 1938 the coalition controls the whole near, middle and far east, DEI, Australia and New Zealand. in July 1938 all Germany is occupied and divided among coalition members. Poland has gained Romanian, Bulgarian and German territory (Silesia and Prussia). Czechoslovakia has gained Saxony and part of Romania and N Austria, Hungary has gained part of Austria, Bulgaria and Romania, Yugoslavia has gained part of Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Austria. The USSR has gained East Prussia, part of Prussia, Hamburg, Friesland, Hannover, Bavaria, etc, Turkey, part of Romania, etc,

I think this might be a little bit ASB, but that is only my view of this land grabbing.

[simpleton]

OTL in Dec 1941 Japan had experienced very heavy losses in the battles of Wuhan, Changsha, etc, and it alone simultaneously (in wartime) raided distant, extremely strong PH with a huge fleet, invaded a huge area against much stronger allied forces in 1941 (2,000 Canadians in HK, 100,000 British in Malaya, 30,000 British in Burma, 80,000 US-Filipino troops with strong artillery and a very strong air force in the PI, a strong marine force with 12 Wildcats in Wake, over 1,000 sailors, marines, etc, in Guam, over 20,000 Dutch-DEI troops, an allied fleet with Prince of Wales, Repulse, RN DD, Australian and NZ cruisers and DD, Dutch cruisers, DD and many submarines, US submarines a CA, a CL, a dozen 4 stackers and in mid Feb conducted a stronger raid agaonst Darwin than it did against PH.

ATL China and the USSR are invading continental colonies (all burma, except Rangoon, invaded by Japan) with a huge force and Thailand against extremely weak forces with a few biplanes, while Japan faces ridiculous forces in B. Borneo, Sumatra, Ceylon, Port Moresby, Rangoon, New Caledonia, Mauritius, Reunion, Penang, Rabaul, South Island, NZ and Tasmania. The British-Dutch-Anzac fleet is much weaker (the RN east fleet is outdated and small for the area). The ATL operations are supported by CVs from day 0, which OTL were wasted raiding PH. So OTL all invasions were supported mainly by surface ships and some with a few CLs.

Japan needs fewer troops for all ATL operations, than it deployed alone in the PI and HK OTL: 1,200 Japanese troops each can secure B. Borneo, Mauritius, Penang, Reunion, Port Moresby, New Caledonia, Rabaul. 3,000 can secure Rangoon, Tasmania, the S. Island. 4,000 troops can secure beachheads in Ceylon (Colombo), Sumatra (Surabaya), while reinforcements arrive

Ceylon is ideal for a Japanese invasion since it is a large copra, fish and rice producer, it has plenty of water buffalo (used for transportation, since there are very few Brtitish trucks in the Island) and it is close to Burma (the main rice exporter at the time). Sumatra, Tasmania, the South Island, NZ, Penang, etc, also had plenty of food to support Japanese troops. 

The OTL Japanese operations in wartime (including sailing undiscovered all the way to PH with a huge fleet, when Japan is short of fuel and the USN is eagerly looking for the carrier fleet. Pedaling 700 km down the Malay Peninsula agsinst 100,000 British troops, fighting Thai and Burmese forces, landing large numbers of troops, heavy field artillery and tanks in several places in the PI, bombing Wake all the way from the Marshall Islands to destroy 8 of the 12 Wildcats, storming Wake initially without carrier plane support or CA artillery, all that while fighting intensely in China and sinking the US-British-Dutch-Anzac American fleet) seem far more ASB than the ATL mighty coalition operations in peacetime, with a neutral US.

[simpleton]

I forgot to mention that OTL, while Japan was carrying out all those incredible invasions, it had to keep strong forces defending Manchuria-Sakhalin-Korea from possible Soviet attack and defending Indochina, Formosa, the Marshalls, Carolinas, Truck, Marcus, Iwojima, etc, from possible American attack. In contrast, ATL Japan has lost Manchuria-Korea-Sakhalin, is not invading Indochina and has no reason to fear American attack on the Carolinas, Marshalls, Marcus, etc, so it has many more troops and merchant ships available to transport and supply them.

ATL
After the fall of Germany in July 1938 and with France and Italy in the coalition, Britain knows that the coalition navy is strong enough to invade it. It has lost hundreds of ships and many valuable colonies. Accordingly, Britain joins the coalition, making its navy invincible and providing Canada, Jamaica, etc, as staging areas to invade the US and Latin America.

Although the US is the wealthiest nation, its army and air corps are ridiculously weak in 1938 (no tanks, few and primitive fighters, etc, they are weaker than Poland's, Czechoslovakia's or Yugoslavia's). The coalition transports Japanese, Chinese, Indian and Soviet troops to British Columbia and invades Alaska and Mexico. Coalition ships also transport Soviet, Polish, Czech, French, British and Italian troops to Nova Scotia and Quebec, while landing forces seize Cuba, Veracruz, Venezuela, Rio, Buenos Aires and Panama. The coalition navy wipes out the USN and Latin American navies in 2 weeks (with hundreds of submarines, DD and cruisers, scores of BB and all IJN, RN and a French carrier and land based planes in Canada, Mexico, Jamaica, Cuba, etc,
Thousands of US and latin American ships are seized or sunk in a month. In Oct 1938 coalition troops advance into the US from the Mexican and Canadian borders and land in California, Texas, Florida, New Orleans, Boston, Atlantic City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Mobile, etc,