Miles From Our Home: 2018 Canada ISOTed to December 1939

[Panzerlied]

Either way, Germany is fucked.

[lordroel]

Jun 19, 2019 13:27:36 GMT Panzerlied said:

Either way, Germany is fucked.

Yep, the moment that 2018 Canada showed up.

[pyeknu]

Quick question: How much would exchange rates change now that Canada is back in time when still many currencies were pegged to the gold standard? Would the value of the Canadian dollar remain the same or increase to a situation where books would be valued in cents, not dollars?

[stevep]

Jul 11, 2019 0:14:44 GMT pyeknu said:

Quick question: How much would exchange rates change now that Canada is back in time when still many currencies were pegged to the gold standard? Would the value of the Canadian dollar remain the same or increase to a situation where books would be valued in cents, not dollars?

  I'm not sure how common the gold standard was at that point?  Checking wiki, see Abandonment_of_the_gold_standard, this mentions Britain being forced off the gold standard by the depression in 1931.  It also mentions that the dominions also dropped the standard either earlier or shortly afterwards.  Not sure of the situation in Europe but think Germany dropped it while France may have stayed on from what's said.  The US is obviously the other [very] big player here so it may have stayed on it as nothing is said here.

[Zyobot]

Jul 11, 2019 8:16:25 GMT stevep said:

Jul 11, 2019 0:14:44 GMT pyeknu said:

Quick question: How much would exchange rates change now that Canada is back in time when still many currencies were pegged to the gold standard? Would the value of the Canadian dollar remain the same or increase to a situation where books would be valued in cents, not dollars?

  I'm not sure how common the gold standard was at that point?  Checking wiki, see Abandonment_of_the_gold_standard, this mentions Britain being forced off the gold standard by the depression in 1931.  It also mentions that the dominions also dropped the standard either earlier or shortly afterwards.  Not sure of the situation in Europe but think Germany dropped it while France may have stayed on from what's said.  The US is obviously the other [very] big player here so it may have stayed on it as nothing is said here.

As far as I'm aware, no modern nation still employs the gold standard as of 2018. I'd say that perhaps the Canadians will have to explain what that's about, but a world still living in the midst of the Depression probably wouldn't need said justification.

[stevep]

Jul 11, 2019 20:16:33 GMT Zyobot said:

Jul 11, 2019 8:16:25 GMT stevep said:

  I'm not sure how common the gold standard was at that point?  Checking wiki, see Abandonment_of_the_gold_standard, this mentions Britain being forced off the gold standard by the depression in 1931.  It also mentions that the dominions also dropped the standard either earlier or shortly afterwards.  Not sure of the situation in Europe but think Germany dropped it while France may have stayed on from what's said.  The US is obviously the other [very] big player here so it may have stayed on it as nothing is said here.

As far as I'm aware, no modern nation still employs the gold standard as of 2018. I'd say that perhaps the Canadians will have to explain what that's about, but a world still living in the midst of the Depression probably wouldn't need said justification.

  Zyobot

  Canada wasn't on the gold standard in 2018 but I was thinking of its new neighbours in the 1940 world.  Doing a bit of checking and it looks like most/all the major powers left the gold standard in the 1930s with France being the last in ~1937.  See

  Gold_Standard_Act - which mentions "On April 19, 1933, the United States domestically abandoned the gold standard, whereafter independent states would remain assured of their US dollar holdings by an implied guarantee on their convertibility on demand:"

  Also on the wiki page Gold_standard_Depression_and_World_War_II there is a graph Leaving the Gold Standard, which shows when assorted countries dropped gold convertibility.

  Steve

[redrobin65]

March 23rd, 1941, Dortmund, Germany

The commander of the Canadian II Corps had expected the city to be a massive drag on manpower and resources if it was directly fought over. Due to this, he had ordered his divisions to surround and bypass Dortmund. This, while well-intentioned, proved unnecessary. The German forces in the city surrendered quickly.

By this point, it was clear to a sizeable amount of Germans that resisting the Allied advance was futile. Despite Hitler’s rantings, morale amongst the Heer was at rock bottom. Hiding troop movements was nearly impossible, with even the smallest of movements likely to be spotted from the air. Even a few SS units reported high desertion and self-inflicted injuries.


German POWs taken by the Cape Breton Highlanders outside Dortmund.

The Allies were moving forwards at an extraordinary pace, and the Germans could not effectively respond. On the 24th, the German Eleventh Army and its 35,000 troops in the Netherlands surrendered, having been thoroughly beaten in less than four days. With the North German Plain now exposed to Allied armour, OKH sent several divisions towards the old German-Dutch border to stop a British thrust westward. For their part, the British were hampered more by the completely ruined Dutch infrastructure than any significant enemy action. Moreover, Germany’s exposed northern flank was suffering heavily. The Allied NEF had secured a bridgehead over the Kiel Canal in Rendsburg. Every German counterattack was swatted aside while they waited for reinforcements. Once those extra troops arrived, they hoped to advance south towards Hamburg.

Resistance in southern Germany had essentially collapsed. Nearly 60,000 German soldiers had surrendered in and around Stuttgart when that city was cut off from the rest of the German lines. The French had taken Frankfurt as well, and were moving towards Augsburg.

Back in Berlin, pessimism was the mood of choice among many senior politicians and Army officers. Casualty reports were arriving, and they were very shocking to many. By March 26th, approximately 217,000 German soldiers had been killed, wounded, taken prisoner, or were missing. In one week, almost a quarter of the Heer and SS had been neutralized. Of the 41 divisions on and near the Rhine, 33 could be described as “combat ineffective.” In other words, there was not much in the way between the Allies and Berlin…except, as a few Generals darkly joked, the throngs of German soldiers waiting in the road to be captured by Allied units.

Speaking of generals, there were a few who felt that Hitler, who had led Germany to ruin, should be overthrown and peace with the Allies made. Some of the conspirators included men such as Hans Oster, Ludwig Beck, and others who were dissatisfied with the way that the war had been managed. Despite a good amount of mumbling and plotting, no coup ever took place. For one, the group was not well organized; with the ruined German telecommunications and mail systems, it was difficult to keep contact with the other plotters unless they were all in one place. Another sticking point was that the peace terms some of the plotters advocated were somewhat laughable (such as a withdrawal of Allied troops out of Germany and allowing the Reich to keep Austria, Bohemia, and parts of Poland). Besides, even with many German officials unhappy with Hitler, there were still a sizeable amount who were still loyal to the Fuhrer and would do their best to fight to the end.

And fight to the end they did. Allied casualties were rising despite their success. The Allies had suffered 19,000 men killed, wounded, missing, or captured since the beginning of the offensive. While this was a sizeable number (especially for the smaller Belgian, Dutch and Norwegian armies) it was much lower than battles of a similar scale during the Great War and was offset by massive German casualties.

The Belgians took Munster on March 29th while the British crossed the German-Dutch border on the 31st. The Canadian Army moved into Lippstadt on April Fool’s Day, threatening Paderborn and Bielefeld. Even when they fought hard, Heer and SS units could not stop the advance. Orders from Hitler for the men to “fight until the streets turn red” were not working. Local commanders would have to take…extreme measures.

[lordroel]

Aug 18, 2019 10:12:24 GMT redrobin65 said:

March 23rd, 1941, Dortmund, Germany

The commander of the Canadian II Corps had expected the city to be a massive drag on manpower and resources if it was directly fought over. Due to this, he had ordered his divisions to surround and bypass Dortmund. This, while well-intentioned, proved unnecessary. The German forces in the city surrendered quickly.

By this point, it was clear to a sizeable amount of Germans that resisting the Allied advance was futile. Despite Hitler’s rantings, morale amongst the Heer was at rock bottom. Hiding troop movements was nearly impossible, with even the smallest of movements likely to be spotted from the air. Even a few SS units reported high desertion and self-inflicted injuries.

View Attachment
German POWs taken by the Cape Breton Highlanders outside Dortmund.

The Allies were moving forwards at an extraordinary pace, and the Germans could not effectively respond. On the 24th, the German Eleventh Army and its 35,000 troops in the Netherlands surrendered, having been thoroughly beaten in less than four days. With the North German Plain now exposed to Allied armour, OKH sent several divisions towards the old German-Dutch border to stop a British thrust westward. For their part, the British were hampered more by the completely ruined Dutch infrastructure than any significant enemy action. Moreover, Germany’s exposed northern flank was suffering heavily. The Allied NEF had secured a bridgehead over the Kiel Canal in Rendsburg. Every German counterattack was swatted aside while they waited for reinforcements. Once those extra troops arrived, they hoped to advance south towards Hamburg.

Resistance in southern Germany had essentially collapsed. Nearly 60,000 German soldiers had surrendered in and around Stuttgart when that city was cut off from the rest of the German lines. The French had taken Frankfurt as well, and were moving towards Augsburg.

Back in Berlin, pessimism was the mood of choice among many senior politicians and Army officers. Casualty reports were arriving, and they were very shocking to many. By March 26th, approximately 217,000 German soldiers had been killed, wounded, taken prisoner, or were missing. In one week, almost a quarter of the Heer and SS had been neutralized. Of the 41 divisions on and near the Rhine, 33 could be described as “combat ineffective.” In other words, there was not much in the way between the Allies and Berlin…except, as a few Generals darkly joked, the throngs of German soldiers waiting in the road to be captured by Allied units.

Speaking of generals, there were a few who felt that Hitler, who had led Germany to ruin, should be overthrown and peace with the Allies made. Some of the conspirators included men such as Hans Oster, Ludwig Beck, and others who were dissatisfied with the way that the war had been managed. Despite a good amount of mumbling and plotting, no coup ever took place. For one, the group was not well organized; with the ruined German telecommunications and mail systems, it was difficult to keep contact with the other plotters unless they were all in one place. Another sticking point was that the peace terms some of the plotters advocated were somewhat laughable (such as a withdrawal of Allied troops out of Germany and allowing the Reich to keep Austria, Bohemia, and parts of Poland). Besides, even with many German officials unhappy with Hitler, there were still a sizeable amount who were still loyal to the Fuhrer and would do their best to fight to the end.

And fight to the end they did. Allied casualties were rising despite their success. The Allies had suffered 19,000 men killed, wounded, missing, or captured since the beginning of the offensive. While this was a sizeable number (especially for the smaller Belgian, Dutch and Norwegian armies) it was much lower than battles of a similar scale during the Great War and was offset by massive German casualties.

The Belgians took Munster on March 29th while the British crossed the German-Dutch border on the 31st. The Canadian Army moved into Lippstadt on April Fool’s Day, threatening Paderborn and Bielefeld. Even when they fought hard, Heer and SS units could not stop the advance. Orders from Hitler for the men to “fight until the streets turn red” were not working. Local commanders would have to take…extreme measures.

A update, nice to see one redrobin65.

[stevep]

Aug 18, 2019 10:13:05 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 18, 2019 10:12:24 GMT redrobin65 said:

March 23rd, 1941, Dortmund, Germany

The commander of the Canadian II Corps had expected the city to be a massive drag on manpower and resources if it was directly fought over. Due to this, he had ordered his divisions to surround and bypass Dortmund. This, while well-intentioned, proved unnecessary. The German forces in the city surrendered quickly.

By this point, it was clear to a sizeable amount of Germans that resisting the Allied advance was futile. Despite Hitler’s rantings, morale amongst the Heer was at rock bottom. Hiding troop movements was nearly impossible, with even the smallest of movements likely to be spotted from the air. Even a few SS units reported high desertion and self-inflicted injuries.


German POWs taken by the Cape Breton Highlanders outside Dortmund.

The Allies were moving forwards at an extraordinary pace, and the Germans could not effectively respond. On the 24th, the German Eleventh Army and its 35,000 troops in the Netherlands surrendered, having been thoroughly beaten in less than four days. With the North German Plain now exposed to Allied armour, OKH sent several divisions towards the old German-Dutch border to stop a British thrust westward. For their part, the British were hampered more by the completely ruined Dutch infrastructure than any significant enemy action. Moreover, Germany’s exposed northern flank was suffering heavily. The Allied NEF had secured a bridgehead over the Kiel Canal in Rendsburg. Every German counterattack was swatted aside while they waited for reinforcements. Once those extra troops arrived, they hoped to advance south towards Hamburg.

Resistance in southern Germany had essentially collapsed. Nearly 60,000 German soldiers had surrendered in and around Stuttgart when that city was cut off from the rest of the German lines. The French had taken Frankfurt as well, and were moving towards Augsburg.

Back in Berlin, pessimism was the mood of choice among many senior politicians and Army officers. Casualty reports were arriving, and they were very shocking to many. By March 26th, approximately 217,000 German soldiers had been killed, wounded, taken prisoner, or were missing. In one week, almost a quarter of the Heer and SS had been neutralized. Of the 41 divisions on and near the Rhine, 33 could be described as “combat ineffective.” In other words, there was not much in the way between the Allies and Berlin…except, as a few Generals darkly joked, the throngs of German soldiers waiting in the road to be captured by Allied units.

Speaking of generals, there were a few who felt that Hitler, who had led Germany to ruin, should be overthrown and peace with the Allies made. Some of the conspirators included men such as Hans Oster, Ludwig Beck, and others who were dissatisfied with the way that the war had been managed. Despite a good amount of mumbling and plotting, no coup ever took place. For one, the group was not well organized; with the ruined German telecommunications and mail systems, it was difficult to keep contact with the other plotters unless they were all in one place. Another sticking point was that the peace terms some of the plotters advocated were somewhat laughable (such as a withdrawal of Allied troops out of Germany and allowing the Reich to keep Austria, Bohemia, and parts of Poland). Besides, even with many German officials unhappy with Hitler, there were still a sizeable amount who were still loyal to the Fuhrer and would do their best to fight to the end.

And fight to the end they did. Allied casualties were rising despite their success. The Allies had suffered 19,000 men killed, wounded, missing, or captured since the beginning of the offensive. While this was a sizeable number (especially for the smaller Belgian, Dutch and Norwegian armies) it was much lower than battles of a similar scale during the Great War and was offset by massive German casualties.

The Belgians took Munster on March 29th while the British crossed the German-Dutch border on the 31st. The Canadian Army moved into Lippstadt on April Fool’s Day, threatening Paderborn and Bielefeld. Even when they fought hard, Heer and SS units could not stop the advance. Orders from Hitler for the men to “fight until the streets turn red” were not working. Local commanders would have to take…extreme measures.

A update, nice to see one redrobin65 .

  Agreed, excellent to see an update.  Sounds like we're very near the end-game, at least as far as Nazi Germany is concerned although that last sentence is ominous.  That would only extend the agony for all concerned and hopefully will see the soldiers faced with such a threat taking action themselves.  Given that Hitler hasn't had the OTL success in the west or early successes in Russia he has a lot less prestige than OTL.  Also without the threat of a Soviet occupation and all the devastating that would be troops are more likely to accept the war is lost and to end resistance.

[Panzerlied]

Are we going to see Werewolf style attacks? Suicide bombings?

[stevep]

Aug 19, 2019 1:49:55 GMT Panzerlied said:

Are we going to see Werewolf style attacks? Suicide bombings?

  Few if any I would suspect.  Germany hasn't suffered the slow grinding destruction of OTL but has been defeated fairly quickly and easily thanks to the arrival of the Canadians.  As such Hitler hasn't had the OTL military success to make his regime look competent and that powerful and has pretty much collapsed in its 1st real conflict so I doubt there would be much support for such actions.  In fact with the war clearly lost attempts by the Nazis to force a prolonging of the fighting and heavy casualties for no point other than their unwillingness to accept their defeated is likely to alienate a lot of the German population.

[lordroel]

Aug 19, 2019 1:49:55 GMT Panzerlied said:

Are we going to see Werewolf style attacks? Suicide bombings?

I do hoop not, but what if Himmler ore Heydrich had got hold on information on how Terrorist/Insurgenc in Iraq and Afgansitan fight, ore even get the hand on the Harry Turtledove novel The Man with the Iron Heart
and get some ideas on how to keep fighting the Allies, even if Germany is defeated.

[Zyobot]

Aug 19, 2019 16:34:58 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 19, 2019 1:49:55 GMT Panzerlied said:

Are we going to see Werewolf style attacks? Suicide bombings?

I do hoop not, but what if Himmler ore Heydrich had got hold on information on how Terrorist/Insurgenc in Iraq and Afgansitan fight, ore even get the hand on the Harry Turtledove novel The Man with the Iron Heart
and get some ideas on how to keep fighting the Allies, even if Germany is defeated.

What are the odds that they'd come across uptimer knowledge of how Middle Eastern insurgencies operate, though? Even though there might be some leaks here and there, I can't imagine that Canada would allow that kind of intel to get out since it's, you know, a matter of national security that the Axis Powers don't get ideas.

[lordroel]

Aug 19, 2019 17:07:18 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 19, 2019 16:34:58 GMT lordroel said:

I do hoop not, but what if Himmler ore Heydrich had got hold on information on how Terrorist/Insurgenc in Iraq and Afgansitan fight, ore even get the hand on the Harry Turtledove novel The Man with the Iron Heart
and get some ideas on how to keep fighting the Allies, even if Germany is defeated.

What are the odds that they'd come across uptimer knowledge of how Middle Eastern insurgencies operate, though? Even though there might be some leaks here and there, I can't imagine that Canada would allow that kind of intel to get out since it's, you know, a matter of national security that the Axis Powers don't get ideas.

By now they will have spend some effort to get information that will help them I guess.

[Zyobot]

Aug 19, 2019 17:09:35 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 19, 2019 17:07:18 GMT Zyobot said:

What are the odds that they'd come across uptimer knowledge of how Middle Eastern insurgencies operate, though? Even though there might be some leaks here and there, I can't imagine that Canada would allow that kind of intel to get out since it's, you know, a matter of national security that the Axis Powers don't get ideas.

By now they will have spend some effort to get information that will help them I guess.

True. I'm unsure that they'd be able to do so by sending spies over however, since their agents would quickly stick out like sore thumbs as it becomes clear that they've no clue how to operate in a 21st-Century nation.