Miles From Our Home: 2018 Canada ISOTed to December 1939

[James G]

What you have just done is ruined the myth of Hitler's military genuis. He kept doing the impossible and that stopped internal military opposition to his wars. This defeat will become quite important.
Next step has to be putting Canadian jets in Denmark and once established, there could be attack runs over Berlin. Forget factories or anything like that but instead regime targets: Reichstag, Chancellery, war ministry etc: hit them with Paveway LGBs.

[stevep]

Jun 8, 2018 8:44:24 GMT James G said:

What you have just done is ruined the myth of Hitler's military genuis. He kept doing the impossible and that stopped internal military opposition to his wars. This defeat will become quite important.
Next step has to be putting Canadian jets in Denmark and once established, there could be attack runs over Berlin. Forget factories or anything like that but instead regime targets: Reichstag, Chancellery, war ministry etc: hit them with Paveway LGBs.

  Good point.  Have read there was a lot of fear of another war in Germany and it only really ended with the 'brilliance' of 'his' victories in Scandinavia and even more so France, defeating the allies, decisively as it appeared in just over a month whereas there had been great fears of another long atrictional slog.  TTL I would expect that the regime will survive for the moment as much of the losses will be hidden to the general public plus I suspect that the fall of Denmark will only be delayed.  Its when the attack into France turns disastrous, whatever route they follow, that there will be a dramatic increase in fear and possibly unrest.  At that point even the higher military figures, who have bought into military expansion with some gusto, are hiding behind their oaths to Hitler and in some cases have been well rewarded materially are likely to start questioning the situation.  Likely to be more pressure from blow however and one of the numerous assassination attempts may succeed.

  In two minds about using the CAF for attacks on regime targets.  Going to be difficult to catch the key figures as their likely to go into hiding, although hitting some of the key Gestapo centres might be effective in reducing fear of it and the regime.

  A surer way, although more damaging for the German economy would be to hit some of the key economic targets.  Say some of the transformers and other parts of the electricity network and some of the key bridges and aqueducts over the Rhine, which could both do a lot of damage to the German economy and also ability to organise and support a western offensive. 

[lordroel]

Jun 8, 2018 10:36:39 GMT stevep said:

Jun 8, 2018 8:44:24 GMT James G said:

What you have just done is ruined the myth of Hitler's military genuis. He kept doing the impossible and that stopped internal military opposition to his wars. This defeat will become quite important.
Next step has to be putting Canadian jets in Denmark and once established, there could be attack runs over Berlin. Forget factories or anything like that but instead regime targets: Reichstag, Chancellery, war ministry etc: hit them with Paveway LGBs.

  Good point.  Have read there was a lot of fear of another war in Germany and it only really ended with the 'brilliance' of 'his' victories in Scandinavia and even more so France, defeating the allies, decisively as it appeared in just over a month whereas there had been great fears of another long atrictional slog.  TTL I would expect that the regime will survive for the moment as much of the losses will be hidden to the general public plus I suspect that the fall of Denmark will only be delayed.  Its when the attack into France turns disastrous, whatever route they follow, that there will be a dramatic increase in fear and possibly unrest.  At that point even the higher military figures, who have bought into military expansion with some gusto, are hiding behind their oaths to Hitler and in some cases have been well rewarded materially are likely to start questioning the situation.  Likely to be more pressure from blow however and one of the numerous assassination attempts may succeed.

  In two minds about using the CAF for attacks on regime targets.  Going to be difficult to catch the key figures as their likely to go into hiding, although hitting some of the key Gestapo centres might be effective in reducing fear of it and the regime.

  A surer way, although more damaging for the German economy would be to hit some of the key economic targets.  Say some of the transformers and other parts of the electricity network and some of the key bridges and aqueducts over the Rhine, which could both do a lot of damage to the German economy and also ability to organise and support a western offensive. 

Lets hope Hitler is not stupid enough to decide to still go on with the German invasion of France and the Low Countries,and also let hope he is not stupid enough to be at Führer headquarter Felsennest when the Germans launch their invasion, as i think think that the RCAF can send him some greeting in the form of Mark 82/83/84 bombs dropped from F-18s.

[stevep]

Jun 8, 2018 10:45:45 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 8, 2018 10:36:39 GMT stevep said:

  Good point.  Have read there was a lot of fear of another war in Germany and it only really ended with the 'brilliance' of 'his' victories in Scandinavia and even more so France, defeating the allies, decisively as it appeared in just over a month whereas there had been great fears of another long atrictional slog.  TTL I would expect that the regime will survive for the moment as much of the losses will be hidden to the general public plus I suspect that the fall of Denmark will only be delayed.  Its when the attack into France turns disastrous, whatever route they follow, that there will be a dramatic increase in fear and possibly unrest.  At that point even the higher military figures, who have bought into military expansion with some gusto, are hiding behind their oaths to Hitler and in some cases have been well rewarded materially are likely to start questioning the situation.  Likely to be more pressure from blow however and one of the numerous assassination attempts may succeed.

  In two minds about using the CAF for attacks on regime targets.  Going to be difficult to catch the key figures as their likely to go into hiding, although hitting some of the key Gestapo centres might be effective in reducing fear of it and the regime.

  A surer way, although more damaging for the German economy would be to hit some of the key economic targets.  Say some of the transformers and other parts of the electricity network and some of the key bridges and aqueducts over the Rhine, which could both do a lot of damage to the German economy and also ability to organise and support a western offensive. 

Lets hope Hitler is not stupid enough to decide to still go on with the German invasion of France and the Low Countries,and also let hope he is not stupid enough to be at Führer headquarter Felsennest when the Germans launch their invasion, as i think think that the RCAF can send him some greeting in the form of Mark 82/83/84 bombs dropped from F-18s.

  Actually I'm not sure about that.  From the Dutch view that might be a good outcome but for the allies as a whole, if the Germans don't attack they have to go in and dig him out.  Which since I suspect they won't be impinging neutrality and Belgium and the Netherlands may not be willing to join the allies despite [or because of] the German attacks on Denmark and Norway and [rather wild as they may think of it] reports from the future meaning fighting their way into Germany on a pretty narrow front.  Still likely to be a hell of a lot cheaper than OTL but probably more than if the Germans attack and get their forces mauled.  Depends on what you think is the best for humanity as a whole.

  If the Germans don't attack then the allies are probably best digging in and building up forces, developing what available from Canada while doing a strategic campaign against key economic and political targets.  The Germans can either sit there and take it or come out and try and fight.  The longer it takes the stronger the allies will get, both absolutely and in relative terms as they should increase their military strength markedly faster than the Germans.

  Which would leave the question, when Nazi Germany starts to go down what does Stalin do?

[lordroel]

Jun 8, 2018 14:34:32 GMT stevep said:

  Which would leave the question, when Nazi Germany starts to go down what does Stalin do?

Stalin might want to learn a history, maybe he starts a Second Great Purge.

[stevep]

Jun 11, 2018 3:52:32 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 8, 2018 14:34:32 GMT stevep said:

  Which would leave the question, when Nazi Germany starts to go down what does Stalin do?

Stalin might want to learn a history, maybe he starts a Second Great Purge.

  He might do but since the Winter War has happened he should have a clearer idea what the last one did to the Red Army so it would be unwise.  I was thinking more of does he:

a)  Come out more openly in support of Germany, now seen definitely as the weaker bloc - at least after the failure of an invasion attempt against France and the Low Countries.  Although I doubt this is likely, especially if/when he realises the truth that there's now a Canada from 2018 with all that entails in terms of power and knowledge available to the allies.

b)  Hunker down, seeking to keep its gains in the Baltics - which it hasn't quite occupied yet IIRC and eastern Poland and possibly still strong-arming Romania over Bessarabia - working on the assumption that by the time they have defeated Germany the western powers are unlikely to have the will-power to wage another war against the Soviets.

c)  At some point 'join the allies' by back-stabing Germany at a point its clearly going down.  Possibly with the aim of making a western attack on the Soviets politically more difficult and even with the intention of setting up a puppet Polish communist regime.

  Another option, which might fit in with either b) or c) would be to attack Japan while the bulk of the rest of the world is pre-occupied.  Zhukov won a big victory in a border clash in 1940 and this might be expanded into a larger conflict, say replacing Japan as the dominant power in Manchuria, possibly also Korea if he gets very lucky, and gaining more influence in China.  However this could be risky if the Red Army falters or a war in the west does result.  [Which could even end up with the peculiar and unpleasant for many situation of western Europe and Japan being 'allied' against the Soviets.

[lordroel]

Jun 11, 2018 15:09:53 GMT stevep said:

Jun 11, 2018 3:52:32 GMT lordroel said:

Stalin might want to learn a history, maybe he starts a Second Great Purge.

  He might do but since the Winter War has happened he should have a clearer idea what the last one did to the Red Army so it would be unwise.  I was thinking more of does he:

a)  Come out more openly in support of Germany, now seen definitely as the weaker bloc - at least after the failure of an invasion attempt against France and the Low Countries.  Although I doubt this is likely, especially if/when he realises the truth that there's now a Canada from 2018 with all that entails in terms of power and knowledge available to the allies.

b)  Hunker down, seeking to keep its gains in the Baltics - which it hasn't quite occupied yet IIRC and eastern Poland and possibly still strong-arming Romania over Bessarabia - working on the assumption that by the time they have defeated Germany the western powers are unlikely to have the will-power to wage another war against the Soviets.

c)  At some point 'join the allies' by back-stabing Germany at a point its clearly going down.  Possibly with the aim of making a western attack on the Soviets politically more difficult and even with the intention of setting up a puppet Polish communist regime.

  Another option, which might fit in with either b) or c) would be to attack Japan while the bulk of the rest of the world is pre-occupied.  Zhukov won a big victory in a border clash in 1940 and this might be expanded into a larger conflict, say replacing Japan as the dominant power in Manchuria, possibly also Korea if he gets very lucky, and gaining more influence in China.  However this could be risky if the Red Army falters or a war in the west does result.  [Which could even end up with the peculiar and unpleasant for many situation of western Europe and Japan being 'allied' against the Soviets.

I wonder, how many Colt Canada C7 can Colt Canada produce in a month, because the British might like that assault rifle as well, ore do they not need one.

[redrobin65]

The reactions to the failure of operation WESERBUNG were rather predictable.

Hitler went on an unhinged, 45-minute rant about the failed operation. Commanders were sacked and units shuffled. He screamed at his subordinates: why didn’t they prepare for war with a country from the future? Those who pointed out that the Fuhrer himself had scoffed at the notion that Canada was from the future were promptly removed from their positions. It wasn’t helped when German speaking Canadians broadcasted onto German radio stations. After getting a grip on his emotions, he reinforced the Danish Operation (even though the forces in place were still more than enough).

There were plenty of divisions sitting around in northern Germany that had been supposed to go to Norway. While many formations in the first, second, and third waves had been mauled, there were enough men and equipment to still conquer Denmark. The 198th Infantry Division had been heavily damaged at sea and in the air on April 8th, 9th and 10th; the remnants would spend the rest of the year reequipping. The 170th Infantry Division and the 11th Schutzen Brigade, while more than enough, were reinforced by the 181st, 196th, and 214th Infantry Divisions and had almost three hundred aircraft for support.

To their credit, the Danish 2nd Division on Jutland initially did well. They managed to knock out several Panzers and hold up the Germans at different locations. However, their inferiority in numbers, equipment, and training showed. There weren’t enough of them and their weapons were generally less advanced than those of the Wehrmacht. Their air force was small. Only a few airborne landings took place, as most of the transport aircraft had been destroyed on the ground by the RCAF on the 8th. Nevertheless, the 2nd Division was mostly destroyed by April 11th with survivors either surrendering or dispersing to make life for the occupiers difficult.

Zealand did not fall until the 17th for a number of reasons. The primary fire support/transport flotilla, ‘Warship’ Group Eight, had been destroyed at port with many of their troops. This delayed the invasion but did not completely stop it. Several small Danish islands were captured by troops in small boats. The 2nd Mountain Division and 193rd Infantry Regiment (the largest intact formation from the destroyed 69th Infantry Division) landed on the southern part of Zealand on April 13th. They battled with the Danish 1st Division for four days, capturing Copenhagen on the 17th. The Danish defence allowed the Government and Royal Family to evacuate to Norway and then Britain to preside over a Government in exile.

Elements of the German military were worried at the prospects of victory in France and the Low Countries given all the historical data and technological assistance undoubtedly provided to the Allies. Hitler, however, was confident in victory, saying: “Germany will defeat the Entente and their Judeo-Bolshevik masters. The Canadians may be from the future, but their numbers are likely to be small.”
Other countries in Europe watched closely.

The failure in Norway was another reason for Benito Mussolini, also known as Benny the Moose, to not join the war. Combined with carefully selected historical data presented to him as well as Anglo-French persuasion, Italy would not be going to war.

Stalin watched these events with trepidation. Sure, the Germans had been crushed in Norway and would probably fail in the West, but what would the Allies do when they were finished with the Reich? Nevertheless, a weak Germany was pretty much unable to protect their part of Poland…

The smaller states also took notice. Finnish uptimers had travelled to their country and saw action against the Red Army. Unfortunately, Canada was unable to do anything to alleviate the result of the Winter War. They provided data, but there wasn’t a lot that could be done. Maybe in the future…

Sweden viewed the destruction of the Kriegsmarine as a sign that they had more freedom to act economically. There was still the Luftwaffe, but the Swedes were not too worried. Those divisions in Denmark would have to withdraw eventually, and there was ore to be exported…

In Hungary, Admiral Horthy looked over his alliance with Germany. It was fine for now, but no doubt would not be in a year. Certain Hungarian uptimers returned to their land for administrative duties and advising important officials.

Romania did not want to lose territory to the USSR or Hungary. The country’s leadership were aware of their dangerous strategic position but was reluctant to ally with Germany. In the uptime, Romania had allied with the Reich after the Fall of France since that nation and Britain would be unable to guarantee security. Certain individuals were detained and monitored.

Yugoslavia shared Romania’s view: an alliance with Germany was unsustainable. However, they had to try and prevent one country from turning into seven.

In the meantime, the Allies prepared.

[lordroel]

Jun 16, 2018 0:23:57 GMT redrobin65 said:

The reactions to the failure of operation WESERBUNG were rather predictable.

Hitler went on an unhinged, 45-minute rant about the failed operation. Commanders were sacked and units shuffled. He screamed at his subordinates: why didn’t they prepare for war with a country from the future? Those who pointed out that the Fuhrer himself had scoffed at the notion that Canada was from the future were promptly removed from their positions. It wasn’t helped when German speaking Canadians broadcasted onto German radio stations. After getting a grip on his emotions, he reinforced the Danish Operation (even though the forces in place were still more than enough).

There were plenty of divisions sitting around in northern Germany that had been supposed to go to Norway. While many formations in the first, second, and third waves had been mauled, there were enough men and equipment to still conquer Denmark. The 198th Infantry Division had been heavily damaged at sea and in the air on April 8th, 9th and 10th; the remnants would spend the rest of the year reequipping. The 170th Infantry Division and the 11th Schutzen Brigade, while more than enough, were reinforced by the 181st, 196th, and 214th Infantry Divisions and had almost three hundred aircraft for support.

To their credit, the Danish 2nd Division on Jutland initially did well. They managed to knock out several Panzers and hold up the Germans at different locations. However, their inferiority in numbers, equipment, and training showed. There weren’t enough of them and their weapons were generally less advanced than those of the Wehrmacht. Their air force was small. Only a few airborne landings took place, as most of the transport aircraft had been destroyed on the ground by the RCAF on the 8th. Nevertheless, the 2nd Division was mostly destroyed by April 11th with survivors either surrendering or dispersing to make life for the occupiers difficult.

Zealand did not fall until the 17th for a number of reasons. The primary fire support/transport flotilla, ‘Warship’ Group Eight, had been destroyed at port with many of their troops. This delayed the invasion but did not completely stop it. Several small Danish islands were captured by troops in small boats. The 2nd Mountain Division and 193rd Infantry Regiment (the largest intact formation from the destroyed 69th Infantry Division) landed on the southern part of Zealand on April 13th. They battled with the Danish 1st Division for four days, capturing Copenhagen on the 17th. The Danish defence allowed the Government and Royal Family to evacuate to Norway and then Britain to preside over a Government in exile.

Elements of the German military were worried at the prospects of victory in France and the Low Countries given all the historical data and technological assistance undoubtedly provided to the Allies. Hitler, however, was confident in victory, saying: “Germany will defeat the Entente and their Judeo-Bolshevik masters. The Canadians may be from the future, but their numbers are likely to be small.”
Other countries in Europe watched closely.

The failure in Norway was another reason for Benito Mussolini, also known as Benny the Moose, to not join the war. Combined with carefully selected historical data presented to him as well as Anglo-French persuasion, Italy would not be going to war.

Stalin watched these events with trepidation. Sure, the Germans had been crushed in Norway and would probably fail in the West, but what would the Allies do when they were finished with the Reich? Nevertheless, a weak Germany was pretty much unable to protect their part of Poland…

The smaller states also took notice. Finnish uptimers had travelled to their country and saw action against the Red Army. Unfortunately, Canada was unable to do anything to alleviate the result of the Winter War. They provided data, but there wasn’t a lot that could be done. Maybe in the future…

Sweden viewed the destruction of the Kriegsmarine as a sign that they had more freedom to act economically. There was still the Luftwaffe, but the Swedes were not too worried. Those divisions in Denmark would have to withdraw eventually, and there was ore to be exported…

In Hungary, Admiral Horthy looked over his alliance with Germany. It was fine for now, but no doubt would not be in a year. Certain Hungarian uptimers returned to their land for administrative duties and advising important officials.

Romania did not want to lose territory to the USSR or Hungary. The country’s leadership were aware of their dangerous strategic position but was reluctant to ally with Germany. In the uptime, Romania had allied with the Reich after the Fall of France since that nation and Britain would be unable to guarantee security. Certain individuals were detained and monitored.

Yugoslavia shared Romania’s view: an alliance with Germany was unsustainable. However, they had to try and prevent one country from turning into seven.

In the meantime, the Allies prepared.

Nice update redrobin65, so it seems Finland, Hungary, Romania know what to expect in the future, but what about Bulgaria and Italy, you have not mentioned them, i assume that Italian prime minister Mussolini also had some visit of Up-time Italians who where living in 2018 Canada and who informed him to stay clear of any alliance with the Third Reich.

[stevep]

Jun 16, 2018 8:50:30 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 16, 2018 0:23:57 GMT redrobin65 said:

The reactions to the failure of operation WESERBUNG were rather predictable.

Hitler went on an unhinged, 45-minute rant about the failed operation. Commanders were sacked and units shuffled. He screamed at his subordinates: why didn’t they prepare for war with a country from the future? Those who pointed out that the Fuhrer himself had scoffed at the notion that Canada was from the future were promptly removed from their positions. It wasn’t helped when German speaking Canadians broadcasted onto German radio stations. After getting a grip on his emotions, he reinforced the Danish Operation (even though the forces in place were still more than enough).

There were plenty of divisions sitting around in northern Germany that had been supposed to go to Norway. While many formations in the first, second, and third waves had been mauled, there were enough men and equipment to still conquer Denmark. The 198th Infantry Division had been heavily damaged at sea and in the air on April 8th, 9th and 10th; the remnants would spend the rest of the year reequipping. The 170th Infantry Division and the 11th Schutzen Brigade, while more than enough, were reinforced by the 181st, 196th, and 214th Infantry Divisions and had almost three hundred aircraft for support.

To their credit, the Danish 2nd Division on Jutland initially did well. They managed to knock out several Panzers and hold up the Germans at different locations. However, their inferiority in numbers, equipment, and training showed. There weren’t enough of them and their weapons were generally less advanced than those of the Wehrmacht. Their air force was small. Only a few airborne landings took place, as most of the transport aircraft had been destroyed on the ground by the RCAF on the 8th. Nevertheless, the 2nd Division was mostly destroyed by April 11th with survivors either surrendering or dispersing to make life for the occupiers difficult.

Zealand did not fall until the 17th for a number of reasons. The primary fire support/transport flotilla, ‘Warship’ Group Eight, had been destroyed at port with many of their troops. This delayed the invasion but did not completely stop it. Several small Danish islands were captured by troops in small boats. The 2nd Mountain Division and 193rd Infantry Regiment (the largest intact formation from the destroyed 69th Infantry Division) landed on the southern part of Zealand on April 13th. They battled with the Danish 1st Division for four days, capturing Copenhagen on the 17th. The Danish defence allowed the Government and Royal Family to evacuate to Norway and then Britain to preside over a Government in exile.

Elements of the German military were worried at the prospects of victory in France and the Low Countries given all the historical data and technological assistance undoubtedly provided to the Allies. Hitler, however, was confident in victory, saying: “Germany will defeat the Entente and their Judeo-Bolshevik masters. The Canadians may be from the future, but their numbers are likely to be small.”
Other countries in Europe watched closely.

The failure in Norway was another reason for Benito Mussolini, also known as Benny the Moose, to not join the war. Combined with carefully selected historical data presented to him as well as Anglo-French persuasion, Italy would not be going to war.

Stalin watched these events with trepidation. Sure, the Germans had been crushed in Norway and would probably fail in the West, but what would the Allies do when they were finished with the Reich? Nevertheless, a weak Germany was pretty much unable to protect their part of Poland…

The smaller states also took notice. Finnish uptimers had travelled to their country and saw action against the Red Army. Unfortunately, Canada was unable to do anything to alleviate the result of the Winter War. They provided data, but there wasn’t a lot that could be done. Maybe in the future…

Sweden viewed the destruction of the Kriegsmarine as a sign that they had more freedom to act economically. There was still the Luftwaffe, but the Swedes were not too worried. Those divisions in Denmark would have to withdraw eventually, and there was ore to be exported…

In Hungary, Admiral Horthy looked over his alliance with Germany. It was fine for now, but no doubt would not be in a year. Certain Hungarian uptimers returned to their land for administrative duties and advising important officials.

Romania did not want to lose territory to the USSR or Hungary. The country’s leadership were aware of their dangerous strategic position but was reluctant to ally with Germany. In the uptime, Romania had allied with the Reich after the Fall of France since that nation and Britain would be unable to guarantee security. Certain individuals were detained and monitored.

Yugoslavia shared Romania’s view: an alliance with Germany was unsustainable. However, they had to try and prevent one country from turning into seven.

In the meantime, the Allies prepared.

Nice update redrobin65 , so it seems Finland, Hungary, Romania know what to expect in the future, but what about Bulgaria and Italy, you have not mentioned them, i assume that Italian prime minister Mussolini also had some visit of Up-time Italians who where living in 2018 Canada and who informed him to stay clear of any alliance with the Third Reich.

  Lordroel

  Actually he did mention Italy and Mussolini won't be going to war, at least not with the allies.  Don't know if the latter gave warnings not to interfere in Yugoslavia or Greece as otherwise Mussolini might be tempted to try and expand his empire while their attention is elsewhere.  Uptime Italians, if they have risked returning could also have suggested that.  [Thinking that unless their fairly hard line nationalist/fascist right-wingers their not going to be happy with the current regime and if they do return their likely to be pumped for any information, especially militarily and technologically and telly Mussolini "I don't know how to build a nuclear weapon/jet aircraft/super carrier/whatever" may not go down well.

  In the short term its going to be difficult for the western powers to provide real support for Yugoslavia if their attacked and even more so Romania, especially if the latter was attacked by Stalin.  Can see it having to concede Bessarabia as OTL, especially if its trying to keep its distance from Germany as otherwise Stalin might get tempted to push for more.

  Bulgaria is a possible ally of Germany given its losses in WWI and before which means it wants to regain lands from its neighbours but after the disaster in Norway and especially news coming in from Canada its probably also seeking to keep a low profile.

  The government of Yugoslavia may want to avoid it breaking up, as probably will many Serbs but there are a lot of other people in the country who may view the situation differently so there could be some problems there.

  The other question is what is happening in Washington and possibly more important in the shorter term Tokyo.

  I was a bit surprised - if probably relieved - that the allies didn't try and directly help Denmark.  Somewhat similar to the OTL forces landed at Narvik by the allies.  Doubt they could have been enough and arrived in time to defend Jutland, which would have been vital to hold anything but boosted by the up-time knowledge the western allies might have tried.  Although warnings of what happen in May 40 OTL is probably enough to concentrate their minds on France.  Definitely no plans to bomb Baku!

 

[lordroel]

Jun 16, 2018 10:03:56 GMT stevep said:

Jun 16, 2018 8:50:30 GMT lordroel said:

Nice update redrobin65 , so it seems Finland, Hungary, Romania know what to expect in the future, but what about Bulgaria and Italy, you have not mentioned them, i assume that Italian prime minister Mussolini also had some visit of Up-time Italians who where living in 2018 Canada and who informed him to stay clear of any alliance with the Third Reich.

  Lordroel

  Actually he did mention Italy and Mussolini won't be going to war, at least not with the allies.  Don't know if the latter gave warnings not to interfere in Yugoslavia or Greece as otherwise Mussolini might be tempted to try and expand his empire while their attention is elsewhere.  Uptime Italians, if they have risked returning could also have suggested that.  [Thinking that unless their fairly hard line nationalist/fascist right-wingers their not going to be happy with the current regime and if they do return their likely to be pumped for any information, especially militarily and technologically and telly Mussolini "I don't know how to build a nuclear weapon/jet aircraft/super carrier/whatever" may not go down well.

 

A thanks stevep, did not see that, also i am wonder, how much is Mussolini is remembered in Italy, with all these things going on in Italy like immigration problems, governments who do not last their terms, huge debts, i wonder if some of the Italian up timers living in 2018 Canada might think that Mussolini is the lesser of the two evils and might support him.

[James G]

Italy has made the right choice there. Mussolini might decide to turn on Germany at some point soon; he and Hitler were far from natural allies.

[lordroel]

Jun 16, 2018 10:14:50 GMT James G said:

Italy has made the right choice there. Mussolini might decide to turn on Germany at some point soon; he and Hitler were far from natural allies.

Doubt 2018 Canada, France ore the United Kingdom are going to do a regime change in Italy, think the would prefer Italy to be on their side ore neutral at best.

[redrobin65]

“D for defence; E for elephant.”
-An anonymous poster on Reddit; April 22nd, 1940
Ever since the Shift, the Western Allies had been debating what defence strategies to use when the inevitable German attack came. There were shouts, screams, and accusations of defeatism. Nonetheless, The Plan was adopted, and the various Allied nations prepared.
The 1st Canadian Mechanized Division was joined in the UK by the 2nd Canadian Mechanized Division on April 26th. Comprised of two brigades of reservists, volunteers, and veterans from Quebec, they had undergone significant changes in equipment. LAV IIIs intended for Saudi Arabia had found their way to the 2nd Division, along with significant amounts of SAMs, TOW missiles, and artillery. 
The RCAF had learned from WESERBUNG. Their munitions were very effective against grounded and airborne planes. They also did a good job in shooting up supply convoys. There were three fighter squadrons in Britain and one in France; almost every CF-18 in the Air Force. The lone squadron in Canada would come over when the pilots refreshing on the Hornets pulled out of Mountain View were ready for battle.
Transport, maritime patrol, and helicopter squadrons had their roles as well. The helicopter squadrons supported the Army on the ground with airlift and fire support. The transports had already ferried small detachments of Canadian soldiers to France. The patrol squadrons were conducting reconnaissance and destroying U-boats.
The Navy had, with the help of the RN, MN and RCAF, destroyed the majority of the U-boat fleet. Some frigates would help with air defence.
The French Army was prepared to advance into Belgium, with the assistance of the BEF, and crush the Germans. They had altered their original plan for defence of that country. Some were wary of it, but if it worked, it would put the Allies in a good position. The French had been working hard on improving their command and control tactics. More radios were distributed, but nowhere near the optimal amount. Commanders were ordered to counterattack if they had the means to, but you cannot change the philosophy of an entire army in a year, let alone 5 months. Efforts were made to improve unit readiness and morale as well. The French were moving reserves to the Ardennes region. They hoped that this time, ‘the Boche’ would be stopped.
The British Expeditionary Force was also preparing. Equipment shortages were being addressed, units shuffled, training increased. The British worked hard on the mechanical issues with some of their vehicles. They were also the first non-Canadians to receive uptime equipment, even before the French. Modified versions of the Light Assault Radio were very useful as was Kevlar armour. Still, these came in small numbers.
The Belgians and Dutch had ordered AA guns and artillery from the United States in January. They had also rigged several bridges for demolition and mobilized reserve formations.
The Allied air forces trained and improved their readiness. They managed to have 3,000 aircraft combat-ready by May 9th(compared to 1,500 combat ready aircraft in the original history). Many would conduct more patrols and disperse from their bases.
The Germans were prepared to move on the 10th of May. Hopefully, the Allies would be ready to meet them.

MFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOH
Allied ORBAT
French First Army Group
French First Army
Cavalry Corps
--2nd Light Mechanized Division
--3rd Light Mechanized Division
French III Corps
--1st Motorized Infantry Division
--1st Moroccan Infantry Division
--2nd North African Infantry Division
French IV Corps
--32nd Infantry Division
--15th Motorized Infantry Division
French V Corps
--5th North African Infantry Division
--101st Infantry Division
Belgian VII Corps
--2nd Chasseurs Ardennais
--8th Infantry Division

French Second Army
Directly Reporting
--5th Light Cavalry Division
--2nd Light Cavalry Division
--1st Cavalry Brigade
Directly Reporting (Reserves)
--4th Tank Battalion
--7th Tank Battalion
--205th Infantry Regiment
--213th Infantry Regiment
French X Corps
--55th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--3rd North African Infantry Division

French XVIII Corps
--1st Colonial Infantry Division
--41st Infantry Division
French Seventh Army
Directly Reporting
-21st Infantry Division
-60th Infantry Division
-68th Infantry Division
French I Corps
--1st Light Mechanized Division
--25th Motorized Division
Canadian 1 Corps

--1st Canadian Mechanized Division

--2nd Canadian Mechanized Division


French XVI Corps
--9th Motorized Division
French Ninth Army
Directly Reporting
--4th North African Infantry Division
--53rd Infantry Division
French II Corps
--4th Light Cavalry Division
--5th Motorized Division
French XI Corps
--1st Light Cavalry Division
--18th Infantry Division
--22nd Infantry Division
French XLI Corps
--61st Infantry Division
--102nd Fortress Division
--3rd Spahi Brigade
French Armoured Reserves
--1st Armoured Division
--2nd Armoured Division
--3rd Armoured Division
--3rd Motorized Division
--4th Armoured Division
British Expeditionary Force
Directly Reporting
--5th Infantry Division
--12th Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--46th Infantry Division
British I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--2nd Infantry Division
--48th Infantry Division
British II Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--50th Infantry Division
British III Corps
--42nd Infantry Division
--44th Infantry Division
Belgian Army
Belgian I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
Belgian II Corps
--6th Infantry Divisionn
--11th Infantry Division
--14th Infantry Division
Belgian III Corps
--1st Chasseurs Ardennais
--2nd Infantry Division
--3rd Infantry Division
Belgian IV Corps
--9th Infantry Division
--15th Infantry Division
--18th Infantry Division
Belgian V Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--13th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
Belgian VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division
--16th Infantry Division
Belgian Cavalry Corps
--1st Cavalry Division
--2nd Cavalry Division
French Second Army Group
French Third Army
Directly Reporting
--3rd Cavalry Division
--6th Infantry Division
--6th North African Infantry Division
--6th Colonial Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division
French Colonial Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--British 51st (Highland) Infantry Division
--56th Infantry Division
French VI Corps
--26th Infantry Division
--42nd Infantry Division
French XXIV Corps
--51st Infantry Division
French XLII Corps
-58th Infantry Division
--20th Infantry Division
French Fourth Army
Directly Reporting
--Polish 1st Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
French XI Corps
--11th Infantry Division
--47th Infantry Division
French XX Corps
--52nd Infantry Division
--82nd African Infantry Division
French Fifth Army
Directly Reporting
--44th Infantry Division
French VIII Corps
--24th Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division
French XII Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--35th Infantry Division
--70th Infantry Division
French XVII Corps
--62nd Infantry Division
--103rd Infantry Division
French XLIII Corps
--30th Infantry Division
French Third Army Group
French Eighth Army
French VII Corps
--13th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
French XIII Corps
--19th Infantry Division
--54th Infantry Division
--104th Infantry Division
--105th Infantry Division
French XLIV Corps
--67th Infantry Division
French XLV Corps
--57th Infantry Division
--63rd Infantry Division
--Polish 2nd Infantry Fusiliers Division
Dutch Army
--Light Division
--Peel Division
--A,B,G Brigades
Dutch I Corps
-1st Infantry Division
-3rd Infantry Division
Dutch II Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
Dutch III Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--6th Infantry Division
Dutch VI Corps
-- 7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division

[James G]

I assume the general war plan has been told to the Dutch? Those German paratroopers in The Hague will be in for an even tougher time!