Miles From Our Home: 2018 Canada ISOTed to December 1939

[stevep]

Jun 18, 2018 6:28:04 GMT James G said:

I assume the general war plan has been told to the Dutch? Those German paratroopers in The Hague will be in for an even tougher time!

  Probably also although since the Netherlands are probably more likely to seek to stay neutral there might be less actual contact.

  Also the more people and nations know the more details the Germans will have about allied war plans.  The more they know the less likely they are to repeat their historical attack as it will obviously lack the surprise that was essential for it.  There is an argument that the allies should have given some hints to Belgium and the Netherlands but kept the actual details as closely guarded as possible.

  As well as the sheer firepower and the intelligence foreknowledge the Canadians can supply a lot of communications information to keep the allies able to response, within the decision loop so to speak and also by careful attack on identified German HQs making it a lot more difficult for them to react to allied moves.  The allies already have sufficient forces, even without the Canadians, to stop the Germans dead given what they now know.  Future Canada weapons, know-how and intel capacity gives a good chance of a crushing defeat, especially of concentrated armoured forces trying to force their way through the Ardennes if they still come that way.

[lordroel]

Jun 18, 2018 5:35:53 GMT redrobin65 said:

“D for defence; E for elephant.”
-An anonymous poster on Reddit; April 22nd, 1940
Ever since the Shift, the Western Allies had been debating what defence strategies to use when the inevitable German attack came. There were shouts, screams, and accusations of defeatism. Nonetheless, The Plan was adopted, and the various Allied nations prepared.
The 1st Canadian Mechanized Division was joined in the UK by the 2nd Canadian Mechanized Division on April 26th. Comprised of three brigades of reservists, volunteers, and veterans from Quebec, they had undergone significant changes in equipment. LAV IIIs intended for Saudi Arabia had found their way to the 2nd Division, along with significant amounts of SAMs, TOW missiles, and artillery. They wouldn’t be fighting alongside their comrades in the 1st Division, though. They were going somewhere else.
The RCAF had learned from WESERBUNG. Their munitions were very effective against grounded and airborne planes. They also did a good job in shooting up supply convoys. There were three fighter squadrons in Britain and one in France; almost every CF-18 in the Air Force. The lone squadron in Canada would come over when the pilots refreshing on the Hornets pulled out of Mountain View were ready for battle.
Transport, maritime patrol, and helicopter squadrons had their roles as well. The helicopter squadrons supported the Army on the ground with airlift and fire support. The transports had already ferried small detachments of Canadian soldiers to France. The patrol squadrons were conducting reconnaissance and destroying U-boats.
The Navy had, with the help of the RN, MN and RCAF, destroyed the majority of the U-boat fleet. Some frigates would help with air defence.
The French Army was prepared to advance into Belgium, with the assistance of the BEF, and crush the Germans. They had altered their original plan for defence of that country. Some were wary of it, but if it worked, it would put the Allies in a good position. The French had been working hard on improving their command and control tactics. More radios were distributed, but nowhere near the optimal amount. Commanders were ordered to counterattack if they had the means to, but you cannot change the philosophy of an entire army in a year, let alone 5 months. Efforts were made to improve unit readiness and morale as well. The French were moving reserves to the Ardennes region. They hoped that this time, ‘the Boche’ would be stopped.
The British Expeditionary Force was also preparing. Equipment shortages were being addressed, units shuffled, training increased. The British worked hard on the mechanical issues with some of their vehicles. They were also the first non-Canadians to receive uptime equipment, even before the French. Modified versions of the Light Assault Radio were very useful as was Kevlar armour. Still, these came in small numbers.
The Belgians and Dutch had ordered AA guns and artillery from the United States in January. They had also rigged several bridges for demolition and mobilized reserve formations.
The Allied air forces trained and improved their readiness. They managed to have 3,000 aircraft combat-ready by May 9th(compared to 1,500 combat ready aircraft in the original history). Many would conduct more patrols and disperse from their bases.
The Germans were prepared to move on the 10th of May. Hopefully, the Allies would be ready to meet them.
MFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOH
Allied ORBAT
French First Army Group
French First Army
Cavalry Corps
--2nd Light Mechanized Division
--3rd Light Mechanized Division
French III Corps
--1st Motorized Infantry Division
--1st Moroccan Infantry Division
--2nd North African Infantry Division
French IV Corps
--32nd Infantry Division
--15th Motorized Infantry Division
French V Corps
--5th North African Infantry Division
--101st Infantry Division
Belgian VII Corps
--2nd Chasseurs Ardennais
--8th Infantry Division

French Second Army
Directly Reporting
--2nd Canadian Mechanized Division
--5th Light Cavalry Division
--2nd Light Cavalry Division
--1st Cavalry Brigade
Directly Reporting (Reserves)
--4th Tank Battalion
--7th Tank Battalion
--205th Infantry Regiment
--213th Infantry Regiment
French X Corps
--55th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--3rd North African Infantry Division
French XVIII Corps
--1st Colonial Infantry Division
--41st Infantry Division
French Seventh Army
Directly Reporting
-21st Infantry Division
-60th Infantry Division
-68th Infantry Division
French I Corps
--1st Light Mechanized Division
--25th Motorized Division
French XVI Corps
--9th Motorized Division
French Ninth Army
Directly Reporting
--4th North African Infantry Division
--53rd Infantry Division
French II Corps
--4th Light Cavalry Division
--5th Motorized Division
French XI Corps
--1st Light Cavalry Division
--18th Infantry Division
--22nd Infantry Division
French XLI Corps
--61st Infantry Division
--102nd Fortress Division
--3rd Spahi Brigade
French Armoured Reserves
--1st Armoured Division
--2nd Armoured Division
--3rd Armoured Division
--3rd Motorized Division
--4th Armoured Division
British Expeditionary Force
Directly Reporting
--1st Canadian Mechanized Division
--5th Infantry Division
--12th Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--46th Infantry Division
British I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--2nd Infantry Division
--48th Infantry Division
British II Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--50th Infantry Division
British III Corps
--42nd Infantry Division
--44th Infantry Division
Belgian Army
Belgian I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
Belgian II Corps
--6th Infantry Divisionn
--11th Infantry Division
--14th Infantry Division
Belgian III Corps
--1st Chasseurs Ardennais
--2nd Infantry Division
--3rd Infantry Division
Belgian IV Corps
--9th Infantry Division
--15th Infantry Division
--18th Infantry Division
Belgian V Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--13th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
Belgian VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division
--16th Infantry Division
Belgian Cavalry Corps
--1st Cavalry Division
--2nd Cavalry Division
French Second Army Group
French Third Army
Directly Reporting
--3rd Cavalry Division
--6th Infantry Division
--6th North African Infantry Division
--6th Colonial Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division
French Colonial Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--British 51st (Highland) Infantry Division
--56th Infantry Division
French VI Corps
--26th Infantry Division
--42nd Infantry Division
French XXIV Corps
--51st Infantry Division
French XLII Corps
-58th Infantry Division
--20th Infantry Division
French Fourth Army
Directly Reporting
--Polish 1st Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
French XI Corps
--11th Infantry Division
--47th Infantry Division
French XX Corps
--52nd Infantry Division
--82nd African Infantry Division
French Fifth Army
Directly Reporting
--44th Infantry Division
French VIII Corps
--24th Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division
French XII Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--35th Infantry Division
--70th Infantry Division
French XVII Corps
--62nd Infantry Division
--103rd Infantry Division
French XLIII Corps
--30th Infantry Division
French Third Army Group
French Eighth Army
French VII Corps
--13th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
French XIII Corps
--19th Infantry Division
--54th Infantry Division
--104th Infantry Division
--105th Infantry Division
French XLIV Corps
--67th Infantry Division
French XLV Corps
--57th Infantry Division
--63rd Infantry Division
--Polish 2nd Infantry Fusiliers Division
Dutch Army
--Light Division
--Peel Division
--A,B,G Brigades
Dutch I Corps
-1st Infantry Division
-3rd Infantry Division
Dutch II Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
Dutch III Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--6th Infantry Division
Dutch VI Corps
-- 7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division

Good update, one question, who is going to defend Canadian airspace if all F-18s are ore going to be in Europe.

[stevep]

Jun 18, 2018 15:33:33 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 18, 2018 5:35:53 GMT redrobin65 said:

“D for defence; E for elephant.”
-An anonymous poster on Reddit; April 22nd, 1940
Ever since the Shift, the Western Allies had been debating what defence strategies to use when the inevitable German attack came. There were shouts, screams, and accusations of defeatism. Nonetheless, The Plan was adopted, and the various Allied nations prepared.
The 1st Canadian Mechanized Division was joined in the UK by the 2nd Canadian Mechanized Division on April 26th. Comprised of three brigades of reservists, volunteers, and veterans from Quebec, they had undergone significant changes in equipment. LAV IIIs intended for Saudi Arabia had found their way to the 2nd Division, along with significant amounts of SAMs, TOW missiles, and artillery. They wouldn’t be fighting alongside their comrades in the 1st Division, though. They were going somewhere else.
The RCAF had learned from WESERBUNG. Their munitions were very effective against grounded and airborne planes. They also did a good job in shooting up supply convoys. There were three fighter squadrons in Britain and one in France; almost every CF-18 in the Air Force. The lone squadron in Canada would come over when the pilots refreshing on the Hornets pulled out of Mountain View were ready for battle.
Transport, maritime patrol, and helicopter squadrons had their roles as well. The helicopter squadrons supported the Army on the ground with airlift and fire support. The transports had already ferried small detachments of Canadian soldiers to France. The patrol squadrons were conducting reconnaissance and destroying U-boats.
The Navy had, with the help of the RN, MN and RCAF, destroyed the majority of the U-boat fleet. Some frigates would help with air defence.
The French Army was prepared to advance into Belgium, with the assistance of the BEF, and crush the Germans. They had altered their original plan for defence of that country. Some were wary of it, but if it worked, it would put the Allies in a good position. The French had been working hard on improving their command and control tactics. More radios were distributed, but nowhere near the optimal amount. Commanders were ordered to counterattack if they had the means to, but you cannot change the philosophy of an entire army in a year, let alone 5 months. Efforts were made to improve unit readiness and morale as well. The French were moving reserves to the Ardennes region. They hoped that this time, ‘the Boche’ would be stopped.
The British Expeditionary Force was also preparing. Equipment shortages were being addressed, units shuffled, training increased. The British worked hard on the mechanical issues with some of their vehicles. They were also the first non-Canadians to receive uptime equipment, even before the French. Modified versions of the Light Assault Radio were very useful as was Kevlar armour. Still, these came in small numbers.
The Belgians and Dutch had ordered AA guns and artillery from the United States in January. They had also rigged several bridges for demolition and mobilized reserve formations.
The Allied air forces trained and improved their readiness. They managed to have 3,000 aircraft combat-ready by May 9th(compared to 1,500 combat ready aircraft in the original history). Many would conduct more patrols and disperse from their bases.
The Germans were prepared to move on the 10th of May. Hopefully, the Allies would be ready to meet them.
MFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOHMFOH
Allied ORBAT
French First Army Group
French First Army
Cavalry Corps
--2nd Light Mechanized Division
--3rd Light Mechanized Division
French III Corps
--1st Motorized Infantry Division
--1st Moroccan Infantry Division
--2nd North African Infantry Division
French IV Corps
--32nd Infantry Division
--15th Motorized Infantry Division
French V Corps
--5th North African Infantry Division
--101st Infantry Division
Belgian VII Corps
--2nd Chasseurs Ardennais
--8th Infantry Division

French Second Army
Directly Reporting
--2nd Canadian Mechanized Division
--5th Light Cavalry Division
--2nd Light Cavalry Division
--1st Cavalry Brigade
Directly Reporting (Reserves)
--4th Tank Battalion
--7th Tank Battalion
--205th Infantry Regiment
--213th Infantry Regiment
French X Corps
--55th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--3rd North African Infantry Division
French XVIII Corps
--1st Colonial Infantry Division
--41st Infantry Division
French Seventh Army
Directly Reporting
-21st Infantry Division
-60th Infantry Division
-68th Infantry Division
French I Corps
--1st Light Mechanized Division
--25th Motorized Division
French XVI Corps
--9th Motorized Division
French Ninth Army
Directly Reporting
--4th North African Infantry Division
--53rd Infantry Division
French II Corps
--4th Light Cavalry Division
--5th Motorized Division
French XI Corps
--1st Light Cavalry Division
--18th Infantry Division
--22nd Infantry Division
French XLI Corps
--61st Infantry Division
--102nd Fortress Division
--3rd Spahi Brigade
French Armoured Reserves
--1st Armoured Division
--2nd Armoured Division
--3rd Armoured Division
--3rd Motorized Division
--4th Armoured Division
British Expeditionary Force
Directly Reporting
--1st Canadian Mechanized Division
--5th Infantry Division
--12th Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--46th Infantry Division
British I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--2nd Infantry Division
--48th Infantry Division
British II Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--50th Infantry Division
British III Corps
--42nd Infantry Division
--44th Infantry Division
Belgian Army
Belgian I Corps
--1st Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
Belgian II Corps
--6th Infantry Divisionn
--11th Infantry Division
--14th Infantry Division
Belgian III Corps
--1st Chasseurs Ardennais
--2nd Infantry Division
--3rd Infantry Division
Belgian IV Corps
--9th Infantry Division
--15th Infantry Division
--18th Infantry Division
Belgian V Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--13th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
Belgian VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division
--16th Infantry Division
Belgian Cavalry Corps
--1st Cavalry Division
--2nd Cavalry Division
French Second Army Group
French Third Army
Directly Reporting
--3rd Cavalry Division
--6th Infantry Division
--6th North African Infantry Division
--6th Colonial Infantry Division
--7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division
French Colonial Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--British 51st (Highland) Infantry Division
--56th Infantry Division
French VI Corps
--26th Infantry Division
--42nd Infantry Division
French XXIV Corps
--51st Infantry Division
French XLII Corps
-58th Infantry Division
--20th Infantry Division
French Fourth Army
Directly Reporting
--Polish 1st Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
French XI Corps
--11th Infantry Division
--47th Infantry Division
French XX Corps
--52nd Infantry Division
--82nd African Infantry Division
French Fifth Army
Directly Reporting
--44th Infantry Division
French VIII Corps
--24th Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division
French XII Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--35th Infantry Division
--70th Infantry Division
French XVII Corps
--62nd Infantry Division
--103rd Infantry Division
French XLIII Corps
--30th Infantry Division
French Third Army Group
French Eighth Army
French VII Corps
--13th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
French XIII Corps
--19th Infantry Division
--54th Infantry Division
--104th Infantry Division
--105th Infantry Division
French XLIV Corps
--67th Infantry Division
French XLV Corps
--57th Infantry Division
--63rd Infantry Division
--Polish 2nd Infantry Fusiliers Division
Dutch Army
--Light Division
--Peel Division
--A,B,G Brigades
Dutch I Corps
-1st Infantry Division
-3rd Infantry Division
Dutch II Corps
--2nd Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
Dutch III Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--6th Infantry Division
Dutch VI Corps
-- 7th Infantry Division
--8th Infantry Division

Good update, one question, who is going to defend Canadian airspace if all F-18s are ore going to be in Europe.

  Its a point but I doubt they expect an attack from the US and there's no one else who could get anywhere near them.

[lordroel]

Jun 18, 2018 15:49:11 GMT stevep said:

Jun 18, 2018 15:33:33 GMT lordroel said:

Good update, one question, who is going to defend Canadian airspace if all F-18s are ore going to be in Europe.

  Its a point but I doubt they expect an attack from the US and there's no one else who could get anywhere near them.

Well Canada still has ore can use these.

16 BAe CT-155 Hawk (flown by the Royal Canadian Air Force)


25 Raytheon CT-156 Harvard II ((flown by the Royal Canadian Air Force,do not know if they can be armed)




27 Canadair CT-114 Tutor (known by the Royal Canadian Air Force,have two point for fuel tanks)




12 Dornier Alpha Jet Type As (owned by Top Aces)



7 Douglas A-4 Skyhawk(owned by Top Aces)



12 Hawker Hunter F.58s (owned by Lortie Aviation)

[redrobin65]

“The Germans were marshalled into three army groups; helpfully labelled A, B, and C. Army Group B had the dual task of both knocking the Netherlands out of the war as quickly as possible and advancing into central Belgium to fix the Allied armies in place. To this end, it deployed the Eighteenth Army in the north and the Sixth Army in the south…. Crucial to the German invasion was keeping the Allies convinced that the main German effort was being directed in Army Group B’s sector, and to this end the bulk of the Luftwaffe’s initial effort would be concentrated in support of these troops, and German airborne units would be used to expedite the advance into the Low Countries.

At the other end of the German front the smallest of the German Army Groups, Army Group C, was tasked with exerting pressure on the troops defending the Maginot Line and pinning them in place, helping to protect the flank of the crucial advance taking place just to the north.

Carrying out this advance was Army Group A, featuring seven Panzer divisions, of which five (and three motorized divisions) were arranged into an independent armoured group named after its commander, Paul Ludwig von Kleist. With over 750,000 troops, Army Group A was by far the most powerful formation in the Heer and was tasked with executing the most important part of the German offensive: the armoured push through Belgium and Luxembourg in the heavily wooded Ardennes region, aiming to surprise and overwhelm the ‘second rate’ French troops entrenched along the river Meuse. Fourth Army was charged with advancing to the Meuse and crossing at Dinant, while the Twelfth Army, complete with Panzer Group Kleist, was to advance and cross the Meuse at Sedan, the schwerpunkt of the German invasion.

The German plan was high risk but had the potential for high reward. If German panzers were able to cross the Meuse in force and surprise the Allies, they could potentially outflank the entire Allied advance taking place to the north and spell mortal danger for the French troops.”
-History behind Hearts of Iron 4, Uptime August 2017

Heer ORBAT

OKH Reserve

German Second Army

Directly Reporting
--267th Infantry Division
--294th Infantry Division

IX Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XXVI Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
--295th Infantry Division

VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--293rd Infantry Division

German 9th Army
Directly Reporting
--211th Infantry Division

XXXXII Corps
--50th Infantry Division
--291st Infantry Division

XXXXIII Corps
--88th Infantry Division
--96th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--25th Infantry Division
--81st Infantry Division
--290th Infantry Division

Army Group A (Ardennes)

German Fourth Army

II Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--32nd Infantry Division

V Corps
--211th Infantry Division
--251st Infantry Division
--263rd Infantry Division

VIII Corps
--8th Infantry Division
--28th Infantry Division
--87th Infantry Division
--267th Infantry Division

XV Corps
--5th Panzer Division
--7th Panzer Division
--62nd Infantry Division

German Twelfth Army

III Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--52nd Infantry Division

VI Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--24th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--21st Infantry Division
--25th Infantry Division
--1st Mountain Division

German Sixteenth Army

VII Corps
--36th Infantry Division
--68th Infantry Division

XII Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division

XXIII Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--58th Infantry Division
--76th Infanty Division
--26th Infantry Division

Panzer Group Kleist

XIV Corps
--2nd Infantry Division (mot)
--13th Infantry Division (mot)
--29th Infantry Division (mot)

XXXXI Corps
--6th Panzer Division
--8th Panzer Division

XIX Corps
--2nd Panzer Division
--1st Panzer Division
--10th Panzer Division
--Infantry Regiment Grossesdeutschland

Reserves

XXXX Corps
--6th Infantry Division
--9th Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--73rd Infantry Division

Army Group B (Netherlands/Northern Belgium)

German Sixth Army

XVI Corps
--4th Infantry Division
--33rd Infantry Division
--3rd Panzer Division
--4th Panzer Division

IV Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XI Corps
--7th Infantry Division
--211th Infantry Division
--253rd Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division

XXVII Corps
--253rd Infantry Division
--269th Infantry Division

German Eighteenth Army
X Corps
--SS Adolf Hitler Regiment
--227th Infantry Division
--1st Cavalry Division

XXVI Corps
--256th Infantry Division
--254th Infantry Division
--SS Der Fuhrer Division

Reserves
--208th Infantry Division
--225th Infantry Division
--196th Infantry Division
--526th Infantry Division
--SS Verfugnungstruppe Division
--7th Air Division
--22nd Air Landing Infantry Division
--9th Panzer Division
--207th Infantry Division

Army Group C (Maginot Line)

German First Army

XXXVII Corps
--246th Infantry Division
--215th Infantry Division
--262nd Infantry Division
--257th Infantry Division

XXIV Corps
--60th Infantry Division
--252nd Infantry Division
--168th Infantry Division

XXI Corps
--258th Infantry Division
--93rd Infantry Division
--79th Infantry Division

XXXXV Corps
--95th Infantry Division
--167th Infantry Division

German Seventh Army

XXXIII Corps
--213th Infantry Division
--554th Infantry Division
--239th Infantry Division
--556th Infantry Division

XXV Corps
--557th Infantry Division
--555th Infantry Division
--6th Mountain Division

XXVII Corps
--218th Infantry Division
--221st Infantry Division

[lordroel]

Jun 21, 2018 4:35:05 GMT redrobin65 said:

“The Germans were marshalled into three army groups; helpfully labelled A, B, and C. Army Group B had the dual task of both knocking the Netherlands out of the war as quickly as possible and advancing into central Belgium to fix the Allied armies in place. To this end, it deployed the Eighteenth Army in the north and the Sixth Army in the south…. Crucial to the German invasion was keeping the Allies convinced that the main German effort was being directed in Army Group B’s sector, and to this end the bulk of the Luftwaffe’s initial effort would be concentrated in support of these troops, and German airborne units would be used to expedite the advance into the Low Countries.

At the other end of the German front the smallest of the German Army Groups, Army Group C, was tasked with exerting pressure on the troops defending the Maginot Line and pinning them in place, helping to protect the flank of the crucial advance taking place just to the north.

Carrying out this advance was Army Group A, featuring seven Panzer divisions, of which five (and three motorized divisions) were arranged into an independent armoured group named after its commander, Paul Ludwig von Kleist. With over 750,000 troops, Army Group A was by far the most powerful formation in the Heer and was tasked with executing the most important part of the German offensive: the armoured push through Belgium and Luxembourg in the heavily wooded Ardennes region, aiming to surprise and overwhelm the ‘second rate’ French troops entrenched along the river Meuse. Fourth Army was charged with advancing to the Meuse and crossing at Dinant, while the Twelfth Army, complete with Panzer Group Kleist, was to advance and cross the Meuse at Sedan, the schwerpunkt of the German invasion.

The German plan was high risk but had the potential for high reward. If German panzers were able to cross the Meuse in force and surprise the Allies, they could potentially outflank the entire Allied advance taking place to the north and spell mortal danger for the French troops.”
-History behind Hearts of Iron 4, Uptime August 2017

Heer ORBAT

OKH Reserve

German Second Army

Directly Reporting
--267th Infantry Division
--294th Infantry Division

IX Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XXVI Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
--295th Infantry Division

VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--293rd Infantry Division

German 9th Army
Directly Reporting
--211th Infantry Division

XXXXII Corps
--50th Infantry Division
--291st Infantry Division

XXXXIII Corps
--88th Infantry Division
--96th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--25th Infantry Division
--81st Infantry Division
--290th Infantry Division

Army Group A (Ardennes)

German Fourth Army

II Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--32nd Infantry Division

V Corps
--211th Infantry Division
--251st Infantry Division
--263rd Infantry Division

VIII Corps
--8th Infantry Division
--28th Infantry Division
--87th Infantry Division
--267th Infantry Division

XV Corps
--5th Panzer Division
--7th Panzer Division
--62nd Infantry Division

German Twelfth Army

III Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--52nd Infantry Division

VI Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--24th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--21st Infantry Division
--25th Infantry Division
--1st Mountain Division

German Sixteenth Army

VII Corps
--36th Infantry Division
--68th Infantry Division

XII Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division

XXIII Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--58th Infantry Division
--76th Infanty Division
--26th Infantry Division

Panzer Group Kleist

XIV Corps
--2nd Infantry Division (mot)
--13th Infantry Division (mot)
--29th Infantry Division (mot)

XXXXI Corps
--6th Panzer Division
--8th Panzer Division

XIX Corps
--2nd Panzer Division
--1st Panzer Division
--10th Panzer Division
--Infantry Regiment Grossesdeutschland

Reserves

XXXX Corps
--6th Infantry Division
--9th Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--73rd Infantry Division

Army Group B (Netherlands/Northern Belgium)

German Sixth Army

XVI Corps
--4th Infantry Division
--33rd Infantry Division
--3rd Panzer Division
--4th Panzer Division

IV Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XI Corps
--7th Infantry Division
--211th Infantry Division
--253rd Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division

XXVII Corps
--253rd Infantry Division
--269th Infantry Division

German Eighteenth Army
X Corps
--SS Adolf Hitler Regiment
--227th Infantry Division
--1st Cavalry Division

XXVI Corps
--256th Infantry Division
--254th Infantry Division
--SS Der Fuhrer Division

Reserves
--208th Infantry Division
--225th Infantry Division
--196th Infantry Division
--526th Infantry Division
--SS Verfugnungstruppe Division
--7th Air Division
--22nd Air Landing Infantry Division
--9th Panzer Division
--207th Infantry Division

Army Group C (Maginot Line)

German First Army

XXXVII Corps
--246th Infantry Division
--215th Infantry Division
--262nd Infantry Division
--257th Infantry Division

XXIV Corps
--60th Infantry Division
--252nd Infantry Division
--168th Infantry Division

XXI Corps
--258th Infantry Division
--93rd Infantry Division
--79th Infantry Division

XXXXV Corps
--95th Infantry Division
--167th Infantry Division

German Seventh Army

XXXIII Corps
--213th Infantry Division
--554th Infantry Division
--239th Infantry Division
--556th Infantry Division

XXV Corps
--557th Infantry Division
--555th Infantry Division
--6th Mountain Division

XXVII Corps
--218th Infantry Division
--221st Infantry Division

This is going to be bloody, for the Germans but also the uptime Canadians and their British and French allies.

[James G]

As far as I can tell, with the Ardennes the plan hasn't changed. Has unexpected Canadian air power changed German plans for the paratroopers in the Netherlands and the commandos at the Belgian fort (name?)?

[redrobin65]

Jun 21, 2018 14:36:16 GMT James G said:

As far as I can tell, with the Ardennes the plan hasn't changed. Has unexpected Canadian air power changed German plans for the paratroopers in the Netherlands and the commandos at the Belgian fort (name?)?

Only the 7th Division will be used in the paratroop role this time due to that and the shortage of transports. Eben-Emael will be...interesting.

[redrobin65]

Jun 21, 2018 13:23:19 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 21, 2018 4:35:05 GMT redrobin65 said:

“The Germans were marshalled into three army groups; helpfully labelled A, B, and C. Army Group B had the dual task of both knocking the Netherlands out of the war as quickly as possible and advancing into central Belgium to fix the Allied armies in place. To this end, it deployed the Eighteenth Army in the north and the Sixth Army in the south…. Crucial to the German invasion was keeping the Allies convinced that the main German effort was being directed in Army Group B’s sector, and to this end the bulk of the Luftwaffe’s initial effort would be concentrated in support of these troops, and German airborne units would be used to expedite the advance into the Low Countries.

At the other end of the German front the smallest of the German Army Groups, Army Group C, was tasked with exerting pressure on the troops defending the Maginot Line and pinning them in place, helping to protect the flank of the crucial advance taking place just to the north.

Carrying out this advance was Army Group A, featuring seven Panzer divisions, of which five (and three motorized divisions) were arranged into an independent armoured group named after its commander, Paul Ludwig von Kleist. With over 750,000 troops, Army Group A was by far the most powerful formation in the Heer and was tasked with executing the most important part of the German offensive: the armoured push through Belgium and Luxembourg in the heavily wooded Ardennes region, aiming to surprise and overwhelm the ‘second rate’ French troops entrenched along the river Meuse. Fourth Army was charged with advancing to the Meuse and crossing at Dinant, while the Twelfth Army, complete with Panzer Group Kleist, was to advance and cross the Meuse at Sedan, the schwerpunkt of the German invasion.

The German plan was high risk but had the potential for high reward. If German panzers were able to cross the Meuse in force and surprise the Allies, they could potentially outflank the entire Allied advance taking place to the north and spell mortal danger for the French troops.”
-History behind Hearts of Iron 4, Uptime August 2017

Heer ORBAT

OKH Reserve

German Second Army

Directly Reporting
--267th Infantry Division
--294th Infantry Division

IX Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XXVI Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--45th Infantry Division
--295th Infantry Division

VI Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--293rd Infantry Division

German 9th Army
Directly Reporting
--211th Infantry Division

XXXXII Corps
--50th Infantry Division
--291st Infantry Division

XXXXIII Corps
--88th Infantry Division
--96th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--25th Infantry Division
--81st Infantry Division
--290th Infantry Division

Army Group A (Ardennes)

German Fourth Army

II Corps
--12th Infantry Division
--32nd Infantry Division

V Corps
--211th Infantry Division
--251st Infantry Division
--263rd Infantry Division

VIII Corps
--8th Infantry Division
--28th Infantry Division
--87th Infantry Division
--267th Infantry Division

XV Corps
--5th Panzer Division
--7th Panzer Division
--62nd Infantry Division

German Twelfth Army

III Corps
--3rd Infantry Division
--23rd Infantry Division
--52nd Infantry Division

VI Corps
--16th Infantry Division
--24th Infantry Division

XVIII Corps
--5th Infantry Division
--21st Infantry Division
--25th Infantry Division
--1st Mountain Division

German Sixteenth Army

VII Corps
--36th Infantry Division
--68th Infantry Division

XII Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--17th Infantry Division
--10th Infantry Division

XXIII Corps
--34th Infantry Division
--58th Infantry Division
--76th Infanty Division
--26th Infantry Division

Panzer Group Kleist

XIV Corps
--2nd Infantry Division (mot)
--13th Infantry Division (mot)
--29th Infantry Division (mot)

XXXXI Corps
--6th Panzer Division
--8th Panzer Division

XIX Corps
--2nd Panzer Division
--1st Panzer Division
--10th Panzer Division
--Infantry Regiment Grossesdeutschland

Reserves

XXXX Corps
--6th Infantry Division
--9th Infantry Division
--4th Infantry Division
--27th Infantry Division
--71st Infantry Division
--73rd Infantry Division

Army Group B (Netherlands/Northern Belgium)

German Sixth Army

XVI Corps
--4th Infantry Division
--33rd Infantry Division
--3rd Panzer Division
--4th Panzer Division

IV Corps
--15th Infantry Division
--205th Infantry Division

XI Corps
--7th Infantry Division
--211th Infantry Division
--253rd Infantry Division
--31st Infantry Division

XXVII Corps
--253rd Infantry Division
--269th Infantry Division

German Eighteenth Army
X Corps
--SS Adolf Hitler Regiment
--227th Infantry Division
--1st Cavalry Division

XXVI Corps
--256th Infantry Division
--254th Infantry Division
--SS Der Fuhrer Division

Reserves
--208th Infantry Division
--225th Infantry Division
--196th Infantry Division
--526th Infantry Division
--SS Verfugnungstruppe Division
--7th Air Division
--22nd Air Landing Infantry Division
--9th Panzer Division
--207th Infantry Division

Army Group C (Maginot Line)

German First Army

XXXVII Corps
--246th Infantry Division
--215th Infantry Division
--262nd Infantry Division
--257th Infantry Division

XXIV Corps
--60th Infantry Division
--252nd Infantry Division
--168th Infantry Division

XXI Corps
--258th Infantry Division
--93rd Infantry Division
--79th Infantry Division

XXXXV Corps
--95th Infantry Division
--167th Infantry Division

German Seventh Army

XXXIII Corps
--213th Infantry Division
--554th Infantry Division
--239th Infantry Division
--556th Infantry Division

XXV Corps
--557th Infantry Division
--555th Infantry Division
--6th Mountain Division

XXVII Corps
--218th Infantry Division
--221st Infantry Division

This is going to be bloody, for the Germans but also the uptime Canadians and their British and French allies.

Yep, it will not be fun.

[lordroel]

Jun 21, 2018 14:36:16 GMT James G said:

As far as I can tell, with the Ardennes the plan hasn't changed. Has unexpected Canadian air power changed German plans for the paratroopers in the Netherlands and the commandos at the Belgian fort (name?)?

How can no more than 60 F-18s stop this onslaught that is coming, does Canada have enough Mark 82/83/84 bombs,AGM-65G Maverick Missile in its inventory as those are not made by Canada, only the CRV7 rockets and rocket pods are made in Canada, they could be used very deadly, imagine a F-18 with several CRV7 rockets pods strafing a German tank collum.

[stevep]

Jun 21, 2018 14:50:06 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 21, 2018 14:36:16 GMT James G said:

As far as I can tell, with the Ardennes the plan hasn't changed. Has unexpected Canadian air power changed German plans for the paratroopers in the Netherlands and the commandos at the Belgian fort (name?)?

How can no more than 60 F-18s stop this onslaught that is coming, does Canada have enough Mark 82/83/84 bombs,AGM-65G Maverick Missile in its inventory as those are not made by Canada, only the CRV7 rockets and rocket pods are made in Canada, they could be used very deadly, imagine a F-18 with several CRV7 rockets pods strafing a German tank collum.

  If the Germans are still stupid enough to go with the OTL plan then they can do a hell of a lot.  While modern munitions last they can smash German concentrations with a lot of firepower, especially since AGA [Army Group A] is going to be concentrated in a pretty small area.  When the modern stuff is gone they can use down-time dumb weapons, made more efficient by their modern targeting, high speed and altitude which makes interception far more difficult.  This can be boosted if you can start adding methods to increase the accuracy of the down-time weapons, say fin stablised bombs.  If that's not practical they can be used for scouting operations, identifying German positions and movements.  That in itself would be a huge boost for the allies.

  The down-timers would be able to very effectively counter much of the German attack.  Once they realise the Germans haven't changed their plans they can boost the forces dug in at places like Sedan, which will be markedly larger and better equipped than OTL and the Germans will be making frontal assaults on powerful defences.  Relatively light forces operating in the Ardennes - which might be all that's available depending on how much Belgium is able/willing to relax its neutrality can slow things down a bit and give info on the size and direction of the German attacks.  The big fight would probably be seeking to cross the river Meuse at Sedan where their likely to find regular troops backed by artillery and powerful air defences to minimise Luftwaffe support and quite likely allied reinforcements quickly arriving.  Here the Germans are likely to get a very bloody nose and probably make no progress at all.

  Possibly the allied might let the Germans cross at Sedan, albeit almost certainly after heavy fighting, so that the bulk of the German armour is committed to the drive to the coast can then be isolated and destroyed.  However I doubt the French especially would be willing to allow that so its only likely to happen by chance if the allies still make serious mistakes.  More likely German attacks will be lower but heavy because they will be unable to drive across the Meuse.

  Its a bit more difficult to say what will happen with AGB as while large it has only the older, weaker Panzer I's and IIs but its facing weaker opposition who may not be as fully integrated into the allied operations because of their neutrality and the allied need for intelligence security as well as possibly being less willing to believe what their being told by the Canadians.  Also since they don't have a single narrow line of advance the well trained German units may be able to work around defensive positions, even with Canadian and down-time allied support for them.  However some preparations will have taken place almost certainly and a prepared allied set-up should be able to do a lot more to defeat the Luftwaffe.

  I suppose there is a possibility, although it would unlikely at this stage, that another defeat, although proportionately not as extreme as the one in Norway, could cause enough of a crisis in Germany that you could get some sort of military coup against the Nazis.  However even if this worked the German military would probably be unlikely to offer terms that would be acceptable to the allies without further conflict.

[lordroel]

Jun 21, 2018 15:28:38 GMT stevep said:

Jun 21, 2018 14:50:06 GMT lordroel said:

How can no more than 60 F-18s stop this onslaught that is coming, does Canada have enough Mark 82/83/84 bombs,AGM-65G Maverick Missile in its inventory as those are not made by Canada, only the CRV7 rockets and rocket pods are made in Canada, they could be used very deadly, imagine a F-18 with several CRV7 rockets pods strafing a German tank collum.

When the modern stuff is gone they can use down-time dumb weapons, made more efficient by their modern targeting, high speed and altitude which makes interception far more difficult.  This can be boosted if you can start adding methods to increase the accuracy of the down-time weapons, say fin stablised bombs.  If that's not practical they can be used for scouting operations, identifying German positions and movements.  That in itself would be a huge boost for the allies.

Well i think the Canadians can use these on the F-18s, these where the General Purpose bombs in service with the RAF in 1940:

40 lb General Purpose bomb
50 lb General Purpose Bomb
120 lb General Purpose Bomb
250 lb General Purpose Bomb
500 lb General Purpose Bomb
1000 lb General Purpose Bomb

[stevep]

Jun 21, 2018 16:58:08 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 21, 2018 15:28:38 GMT stevep said:

When the modern stuff is gone they can use down-time dumb weapons, made more efficient by their modern targeting, high speed and altitude which makes interception far more difficult.  This can be boosted if you can start adding methods to increase the accuracy of the down-time weapons, say fin stablised bombs.  If that's not practical they can be used for scouting operations, identifying German positions and movements.  That in itself would be a huge boost for the allies.

Well i think the Canadians can use these on the F-18s, these where the General Purpose bombs in service with the RAF in 1940:

40 lb General Purpose bomb
50 lb General Purpose Bomb
120 lb General Purpose Bomb
250 lb General Purpose Bomb
500 lb General Purpose Bomb
1000 lb General Purpose Bomb

  The other thing of course, presuming they can sort out co-ordination with down-time units and reliable munitions supply is that they act as fighter cover for down-time bombers.  Wouldn't fancy being in an Me109, let alone a Me 110 trying to intercept a bombing raid and getting a flight of Hornets coming in from on high.  Could only be used to a limited degree as their few in numbers and I bet need a lot more maintenance time than a down-time fighter but likely to be able to cause Goring's boys real pain.  [Or to avoid having to co-ordinate with 1940 a/c just as quick response units to hit German air attacks.]  Do the Canadians have anything that can be used as an AWAC.  That could be very useful for both them and down-time fighter defences.

[lordroel]

Jun 21, 2018 20:45:08 GMT stevep said:

Do the Canadians have anything that can be used as an AWAC.  That could be very useful for both them and down-time fighter defences.

Not that i know, but using a Bombardier Dash 8  the Canadians could build their own version of a Erieye (they need to build it first), there is also a version out there called the GlobalEye multi-role AEW&C, a Global 6000 with the SAAB Erieye's ER AESA radar (again the radar has to be designed first).

[lordroel]

So redrobin65, when are we going to see them being mentioned.