Star Wars WI: Separatist Droid Army Never Shuts Down

[lordroel]

Aug 15, 2018 18:34:21 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 15, 2018 16:38:42 GMT lordroel said:

Zyobot have you read this: What If The Droid Shutdown Order Was Never Given At The End Of Revenge Of The Sith?

I have. I do wish that they wrote more, like several times the amount that they uploaded. Take away the images that make up more than half of the post height-wise, and you're left with several paragraphs of op-ed to describe the continuation of a Galaxy-sized war--one that'll inevitably yield a much different future than what we see in the Original, and by extension Sequel Trilogy.

The article lacks specificity, details and sources/references to back them up if they were there. They don't give calculations or estimates beyond the Droid Armies vastly outnumbering the Clones; break down the economies, populations, territories, etc. of the Empire & Confederacy; or write about the smaller, sometimes non-grand scale things that would come out of this (i.e. new droid models, who takes over the Separatist Council, etc.).

And that comes before their strongly disagreeable conclusion of the Confederates joining the Empire, assuming that they achieve victory in the end. The constituents of the CIS sacrificed herculean blood and treasure for three, blood-drenched years in hopes of gaining their desired independence; it'd be political suicide to have them merge with their sworn enemies, let alone give them any say over how Separatist citizens go about things. While I can see why the Imperial Senate would work out a mutual agreement due to exhaustion brought on by war and the constraints of invading and occupying an entire Galaxy, it's mainly them that will come to their senses. Old Emperor Sheev, backed up by his control over the new Imperial Military, probably won't permit negotiations since his ego and lust for power disallow it.

So no, I gainsay the position laid out in What If the Droid Shutdown Order Was Never Given At The End Of Revenge Of The Sith.

Well as long as CIS has the production lines to produce droids, this can be a long war.

[Zyobot]

Aug 15, 2018 18:35:34 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 15, 2018 18:34:21 GMT Zyobot said:

I have. I do wish that they wrote more, like several times the amount that they uploaded. Take away the images that make up more than half of the post height-wise, and you're left with several paragraphs of op-ed to describe the continuation of a Galaxy-sized war--one that'll inevitably yield a much different future than what we see in the Original, and by extension Sequel Trilogy.

The article lacks specificity, details and sources/references to back them up if they were there. They don't give calculations or estimates beyond the Droid Armies vastly outnumbering the Clones; break down the economies, populations, territories, etc. of the Empire & Confederacy; or write about the smaller, sometimes non-grand scale things that would come out of this (i.e. new droid models, who takes over the Separatist Council, etc.).

And that comes before their strongly disagreeable conclusion of the Confederates joining the Empire, assuming that they achieve victory in the end. The constituents of the CIS sacrificed herculean blood and treasure for three, blood-drenched years in hopes of gaining their desired independence; it'd be political suicide to have them merge with their sworn enemies, let alone give them any say over how Separatist citizens go about things. While I can see why the Imperial Senate would work out a mutual agreement due to exhaustion brought on by war and the constraints of invading and occupying an entire Galaxy, it's mainly them that will come to their senses. Old Emperor Sheev, backed up by his control over the new Imperial Military, probably won't permit negotiations since his ego and lust for power disallow it.

So no, I gainsay the position laid out in What If the Droid Shutdown Order Was Never Given At The End Of Revenge Of The Sith.

Well as long as CIS has the production lines to produce droids, this can be a long war.

Do we have any good data--or at least, estimates--about the CIS industrial base, in particular? I want to find out how their economy is doing and if/how long the Clone Wars can rage on for?

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 20:30:02 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 15, 2018 18:35:34 GMT lordroel said:

Well as long as CIS has the production lines to produce droids, this can be a long war.

Do we have any good data--or at least, estimates--about the CIS industrial base, in particular? I want to find out how their economy is doing and if/how long the Clone Wars can rage on for?

First i tried to gt a map of the Clone Wars to see how large the CIS was, not large and also if you go by this map not contented, you can see four separate CIS held controlled territory. 




Second if we go from this YouTube clip, i doubt the CIS had a whooping Droid Army numbering a Quintillion which has 18 zeros 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 20:38:25 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 20:30:02 GMT Zyobot said:

Do we have any good data--or at least, estimates--about the CIS industrial base, in particular? I want to find out how their economy is doing and if/how long the Clone Wars can rage on for?

First i tried to gt a map of the Clone Wars to see how large the CIS was, not large and also if you go by this map not contented, you can see four separate CIS held controlled territory. 




Second if we go from this YouTube clip, i doubt the CIS had a whooping Droid Army numbering a Quintillion which has 18 zeros 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Thank you for bringing that up.

It seems that Droid Army size estimates were all over the place. If we use the 100 quadrillion sentient beings figure as a benchmark, though, then I'm more inclined to say that the battle droids number in the many trillions/low quadrillions.

Of course, since you can churn them out in factories like no one's business, it might reach higher than that. But I can't assume so.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 20:43:40 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 17, 2018 20:38:25 GMT lordroel said:

First i tried to gt a map of the Clone Wars to see how large the CIS was, not large and also if you go by this map not contented, you can see four separate CIS held controlled territory. 




Second if we go from this YouTube clip, i doubt the CIS had a whooping Droid Army numbering a Quintillion which has 18 zeros 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Thank you for bringing that up.

It seems that Droid Army size estimates were all over the place. If we use the 100 quadrillion sentient beings figure as a benchmark, though, then I'm more inclined to say that the battle droids number in the many trillions/low quadrillions.

Of course, since you can churn them out in factories like no one's business, it might reach higher than that. But I can't assume so.

I was thinking, i would assume that the Darth Sidious before he was the Emperor and was behind all the scheming and plotting in the Clone Wars would have made sure that (1) the CIS never posses large amount of territory inside the Republic and (2) that their Droid Army which is much easy to produce than a Clone Trooper was not to large that it could actually take over the Republic in its entrality which would not be the thing the Emperor wants.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 21:09:13 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 20:43:40 GMT Zyobot said:

Thank you for bringing that up.

It seems that Droid Army size estimates were all over the place. If we use the 100 quadrillion sentient beings figure as a benchmark, though, then I'm more inclined to say that the battle droids number in the many trillions/low quadrillions.

Of course, since you can churn them out in factories like no one's business, it might reach higher than that. But I can't assume so.

I was thinking, i would assume that the Darth Sidious before he was the Emperor and was behind all the scheming and plotting in the Clone Wars would have made sure that (1) the CIS never posses large amount of territory inside the Republic and (2) that their Droid Army which is much easy to produce than a Clone Trooper was not to large that it could actually take over the Republic in its entrality which would not be the thing the Emperor wants.

In that case, I wonder what will happen to CIS economic--and specifically industrial--capacity since Palpatine's thrown his lot in with the Galactic Empire. On the one hand, the Separatist leadership's been decimated, but now they don't have to produce according to the guidelines of an authority who's deliberately holding them back.

I also believe that in 20 BBY, the CIS had roughly 4 times as many ships as the Republic. If enough goes right ITTL, then perhaps there will be a Droid Army numbering in the quintillions, and a Confederate Navy (more) proportional to that size than OTL--maybe even more.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 21:32:42 GMT Zyobot said:

I also believe that in 20 BBY, the CIS had roughly 4 times as many ships as the Republic. If enough goes right ITTL, then perhaps there will be a Droid Army numbering in the quintillions, and a Confederate Navy (more) proportional to that size than OTL--maybe even more.

And they also needed to protect all most 4 pieces of territory while the Republic only needed to protect one giant territory.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 21:38:16 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 21:32:42 GMT Zyobot said:

I also believe that in 20 BBY, the CIS had roughly 4 times as many ships as the Republic. If enough goes right ITTL, then perhaps there will be a Droid Army numbering in the quintillions, and a Confederate Navy (more) proportional to that size than OTL--maybe even more.

And they also needed to protect all most 4 pieces of territory while the Republic only needed to protect one giant territory.

I may be wrong, but I think that Separatist territory fluctuated over the years as worlds and systems joined/left, got taken over/liberated or otherwise changed allegiances. How the CIS mustered such industrial might to stand against the Republic is utterly beyond me.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 21:46:55 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 17, 2018 21:38:16 GMT lordroel said:

And they also needed to protect all most 4 pieces of territory while the Republic only needed to protect one giant territory.

I may be wrong, but I think that Separatist territory fluctuated over the years as worlds and systems joined/left, got taken over/liberated or otherwise changed allegiances. How the CIS mustered such industrial might to stand against the Republic is utterly beyond me.

Would that not be because the CIS consisted mostly of the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Retail Caucus, the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, and the Corporate Alliance, all who sound as making profit and producing stuff is what they can do best.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 21:49:56 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 21:46:55 GMT Zyobot said:

I may be wrong, but I think that Separatist territory fluctuated over the years as worlds and systems joined/left, got taken over/liberated or otherwise changed allegiances. How the CIS mustered such industrial might to stand against the Republic is utterly beyond me.

Would that not be because the CIS consisted mostly of the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Retail Caucus, the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, and the Corporate Alliance, all who sound as making profit and producing stuff is what they can do best.

I get that a mix of galactic conglomerates makes a profound, grand-scheme difference in relative production figures. Still, it's incredulous to me that a Republic with its own corporate behemoths and comparatively oversized territory couldn't swamp the CIS; perhaps Palpatine deliberately held them back, too.

That's my understanding of this aspect of the Clone Wars, anyway.

Then again, the Banking Clan--which financed both sides--was quite clearly pro-Separatist. So maybe it was IBC fiscal policies, rather than strictly industrial capacity, that helped the CIS level the playing field and/or cap the Republic's production capabilities.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 22:00:49 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 17, 2018 21:49:56 GMT lordroel said:

Would that not be because the CIS consisted mostly of the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Retail Caucus, the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, and the Corporate Alliance, all who sound as making profit and producing stuff is what they can do best.

I get that a mix of galactic conglomerates makes a profound, grand-scheme difference in relative production figures. Still, it's incredulous to me that a Republic with its own corporate behemoths and comparatively oversized territory couldn't swamp the CIS; perhaps Palpatine deliberately held them back, too.

I think that Darth Sidious/Emperor did exactly do that also, so even if the Droid Army is not shut down for a reason, i have a feeling the Emperor will use it to his advantage one way ore another.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 22:06:04 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 22:00:49 GMT Zyobot said:

I get that a mix of galactic conglomerates makes a profound, grand-scheme difference in relative production figures. Still, it's incredulous to me that a Republic with its own corporate behemoths and comparatively oversized territory couldn't swamp the CIS; perhaps Palpatine deliberately held them back, too.

I think that Darth Sidious/Emperor did exactly do that also, so even if the Droid Army is not shut down for a reason, i have a feeling the Emperor will use it to his advantage one way ore another.

That sounds like something the Good Dark Lord would attempt to do. The scapegoat provided by the surviving CIS might help him concentrate power and cement it, but this is nevertheless balanced out by the vast Separatist menace and the protracted war with them. And obvious to consider: he no longer controls their machinations as he used to.

Harking back to my last post, how would the IBC--the colossal financiers of the Clone Wars--do in this scenario?

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 22:14:40 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 17, 2018 22:06:04 GMT lordroel said:

I think that Darth Sidious/Emperor did exactly do that also, so even if the Droid Army is not shut down for a reason, i have a feeling the Emperor will use it to his advantage one way ore another.

That sounds like something the Good Dark Lord would attempt to do. The scapegoat provided by the surviving CIS might help him concentrate power and cement it, but this is nevertheless balanced out by the vast Separatist menace and the protracted war with them. And obvious to consider: he no longer controls their machinations as he used to.

Also if the Separatist Council was killed on Mustafar, how will that effect the CIS, could it fracture with each member doing thier best to survive against the Empire, also it seems that there where Separatist holdouts.

[Zyobot]

Aug 17, 2018 22:21:23 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 17, 2018 22:14:40 GMT Zyobot said:

That sounds like something the Good Dark Lord would attempt to do. The scapegoat provided by the surviving CIS might help him concentrate power and cement it, but this is nevertheless balanced out by the vast Separatist menace and the protracted war with them. And obvious to consider: he no longer controls their machinations as he used to.

Also if the Separatist Council was killed on Mustafar, how will that effect the CIS, could it fracture with each member doing thier best to survive against the Empire, also it seems that there where Separatist holdouts.

To my prosaic knowledge, the CIS-survives-as-a-united-entity path starts with the Separatist Parliament appointing a new head-of-state, a Supreme Commander and other top-tier officials ASAP.

At worst, they'll become exponentially stronger and more numerous Separatist Holdouts since the Droid Army ignores the galactic shutdown command. The Rebels may take advantage of this later.

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2018 22:26:16 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 17, 2018 22:21:23 GMT lordroel said:

Also if the Separatist Council was killed on Mustafar, how will that effect the CIS, could it fracture with each member doing thier best to survive against the Empire, also it seems that there where Separatist holdouts.

To my prosaic knowledge, the CIS-survives-as-a-united-entity path starts with the Separatist Parliament appointing a new head-of-state, a Supreme Commander and other top-tier officials ASAP.

But would they be able to hold against the Empire and also they will lose their mysterious backer who is now the emperor of the Empire and who will do anything to remove any thread to him.