Tsarist Russia 1913 to 2013 ISOT

[mullauna]

Exactly as it says on the tin. In 1913, on the day of the tercentenary of the Romanov dynasty, the territory of the Russian Empire, plus its concessions around the globe, are transported to 100 years later.

How does Nicholas II, the Empress and their children react? the Russian people? Russian controlled Congress Poland? Russian ruled Finland?

[lordroel]

Sept 1, 2019 13:45:43 GMT mullauna said:

Exactly as it says on the tin. In 1913, on the day of the tercentenary of the Romanov dynasty, the territory of the Russian Empire, plus its concessions around the globe, are transported to 100 years later.

How does Nicholas II, the Empress and their children react? the Russian people? Russian controlled Congress Poland? Russian ruled Finland?

It’s going to be a heck of a mess.

[stevep]

Sept 1, 2019 14:15:35 GMT lordroel said:

Sept 1, 2019 13:45:43 GMT mullauna said:

Exactly as it says on the tin. In 1913, on the day of the tercentenary of the Romanov dynasty, the territory of the Russian Empire, plus its concessions around the globe, are transported to 100 years later.

How does Nicholas II, the Empress and their children react? the Russian people? Russian controlled Congress Poland? Russian ruled Finland?

It’s going to be a heck of a mess.

  Very true especially since a lot of independent states have lost most or all of their territory.  Don't think Poland is going to be happy with the eastern half of its country taken back a century and either/both sides could trigger a war over this.  On the other hand for them there are Poles in areas they lost after 1939 and the Soviet occupation and then the 1945 population movements.  Other countries such as Finland, Ukraine, the Balts, Caucasian and Central Asia ones have disappeared.  A very backward and autocratic Russian empire has replaced it and what does the world do?  Enforce democracy at least for areas which were recently [to them] parts of NATO or other friendly states.  Will China make a move on its claims in Siberia?  Not sure how the current and 1913 borders with what's now Turkey compare but could also be problems there.  Also there are several million Jews in Imperial Russia who are treated pretty badly so expect both Israel and probably Jewish groups in places like the US to be very interested in their fate.

  Also there will be bits of modern Russia left, such as the Kaliningrad enclave and S Sakhalin and possibly a few others?  What happens to them?  Also are modern Russian forces outside those borders also left?  Most especially their SSBN units?  Since their lost all contact with Moscow what do they do?  That could get very nasty as cold war reaction in such incidences was to assume - or at least consider - your homeland has been destroyed by a nuclear attack.

  If that doesn't happen then depending on what's sorted out with Russia its going to remove the Putin problem and all those Russian nuclear weapons, which could make the world a lot safer.

[mullauna]

stevep,Some of the anglosphere actors and actresses who played Nicholas II and his family in various works are still around in 2013 - how will the newly arrived real people react to their portrayal in these movies and miniseries?

[Zyobot]

I wonder how other countries whose current stability is interconnected with uptimer Russia will fare once its Tsarist counterpart from one-hundred years past replaces it. I can’t imagine that Germany will emerge from this in good shape as one example, due to how much natural gas it imports from there.

[mullauna]

I don't think Anastasia will be too pleased at the 1997 movie.

[lordroel]

mullauna,

Sept 5, 2019 8:44:02 GMT mullauna said:

I don't think Anastasia will be too pleased at the 1997 movie.

mullauna, why did you posted this, you created a nice thread and now you decided to post something like this, despite my making clear to you that I do not want to see these kind of post from you, I could give you a warning but you have multiple already, I could give you a kick but you have two already, I am afraid that given another warning will not help as I have the feeling you are seeing how patience I have with you.

Well my patience with you has run out, I have no other choice to ban you from this forum.

[stevep]

Sept 5, 2019 2:41:11 GMT Zyobot said:

I wonder how other countries whose current stability is interconnected with uptimer Russia will fare once its Tsarist counterpart from one-hundred years past replaces it. I can’t imagine that Germany will emerge from this in good shape as one example, due to how much natural gas it imports from there.

  Good point.  I forgot about the impact of Russian oil and gas exports disappearing.  That is going to become disruptive, both for those dependent on such imports and those closely interacting with them.

  A number of states that have used a lot of Russian military equipment are going to have difficulty as well, unless their already had the capacity to produce/maintain the stuff themselves and in AFV and even more aircraft that seems unlikely. 

[chinuaneustadt]

Central Asia is going to become a hotbed of Islamist infiltration in the short run, almost certainly. I expect a few people will run there, and then disappear near as much as can be humanly possible. In the long run, I imagine things will change as it becomes abundantly clear who some of these people are, especially since 1913 Central Asian muslims were substantially more secular than the Jihadists that will try to take over.

While there will be some who will want to take back lost territory, I wouldn't be so sure that this will occur. The Russian navy, along with several nuclear platforms, will remain. Over a million Russians were not included in this transfer, and the diplomatic network outside of Russia will remain intact. I imagine the Russian Federation remnants will be highly protective of the Russian Empire, and will argue in favor of its territorial sovereignty. Some things can't be helped, Poland will be gone. Others might be. I imagine a time table for independence of some regions will take place, but for others - like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine - may never obtain independence.

Tensions between uptime and downtime Russians will provide a lot of interesting details, especially if a senior member of the Russian government was spared on February 21 by being out of the country.

While I don't doubt that some warfare will take place, I doubt it will become existential. The uptime advantage is too large, and the Russian remnant too potentially impactful, to see the Russian Empire completely overturned. A civil war may seem likely within Russia, but the uptime remnant will probably side with a compliant Romanov dynasty, and that will put an end to any revolution or civil war. I imagine the Tsars will be better behaved when they learn what happened to them, and they can eliminate most troublesome actors before they gain any power or prominence relatively easily with the information they can get from the uptimers.

The economic updating and reintroduction of the Russian Empire to the global economy and international system will be massively difficult, and assistance in health related matters may see a Russian population explosion like nothing seen since, well, maybe parts of Africa or Afghanistan today.

Could be fun to explore more.

[stevep]

Oct 29, 2019 3:07:54 GMT chinuaneustadt said:

Central Asia is going to become a hotbed of Islamist infiltration in the short run, almost certainly. I expect a few people will run there, and then disappear near as much as can be humanly possible. In the long run, I imagine things will change as it becomes abundantly clear who some of these people are, especially since 1913 Central Asian muslims were substantially more secular than the Jihadists that will try to take over.

While there will be some who will want to take back lost territory, I wouldn't be so sure that this will occur. The Russian navy, along with several nuclear platforms, will remain. Over a million Russians were not included in this transfer, and the diplomatic network outside of Russia will remain intact. I imagine the Russian Federation remnants will be highly protective of the Russian Empire, and will argue in favor of its territorial sovereignty. Some things can't be helped, Poland will be gone. Others might be. I imagine a time table for independence of some regions will take place, but for others - like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine - may never obtain independence.

Tensions between uptime and downtime Russians will provide a lot of interesting details, especially if a senior member of the Russian government was spared on February 21 by being out of the country.

While I don't doubt that some warfare will take place, I doubt it will become existential. The uptime advantage is too large, and the Russian remnant too potentially impactful, to see the Russian Empire completely overturned. A civil war may seem likely within Russia, but the uptime remnant will probably side with a compliant Romanov dynasty, and that will put an end to any revolution or civil war. I imagine the Tsars will be better behaved when they learn what happened to them, and they can eliminate most troublesome actors before they gain any power or prominence relatively easily with the information they can get from the uptimers.

The economic updating and reintroduction of the Russian Empire to the global economy and international system will be massively difficult, and assistance in health related matters may see a Russian population explosion like nothing seen since, well, maybe parts of Africa or Afghanistan today.

Could be fun to explore more.

  Some interesting points there.  One issue with the up-time forces is how long can they be supported without any technological base other than what's in the Kalingrad enclave however?  Also while nationalism will be a factor how well will that small but militarily powerful up-time element interact with a backward Russian population.  The Romanov's can still be pretty fragile if they make the wrong decisions either internally or externally.  For instance I can't see the Poles not insisting on getting Warsaw and the rest of the Polish core back and if the Russians don't realise how weak they are they could decide to fight.  Both militarily and in terms of how the rest of the world reacts to them.  Mind you combining up time and down time Poles will be a challenge for that country.  Also since the Baltic states are members of both NATO and the EU there's likely to be demands for at least some popular vote by the down-timers there which is likely to be very unpopular with the rulers of downtime Russian. 

  The only danger of major destructive warfare, i.e. major use of nukes might come as I said if the Russian SSBNs take the wrong [but understandable] conclusion to the loss of all communication with their homeland. 

  IIRC the Russian population was expanding very rapidly at the time.  Think it was mentioned that another couple of decades at that rate and they would have exceeded the total for the rest of Europe so that would have been a big issue.  Suspect that social issues would be even more of a barrier than the economic task in terms of upgrading the empire as those in power would have to accept at least some modern values and the ordinary people would have to welcome this new and very alien world.

  In terms of central Asia it might go well because the local Muslims were a lot more moderate than many of the fanatics today so they could well be hostile to a lot of extremists seeking to upset their position.  This would be helped by the regime in St Petersburg being willing to reduce/stop the attempts to Russify the region and reduce the number of Slavic/orthodox settlers but again that's more a social and cultural issue than an economic one.