Lynching as Human Sacrifice

[spanishspy]

A rather disturbing article about the religious undertones of lynchings in the American South.

[Zyobot]

Nov 3, 2019 7:04:38 GMT spanishspy said:

A rather disturbing article about the religious undertones of lynchings in the American South.

Dear God. That sure makes me grateful as hell not to have grown up in the Jim-Crow South.

Personal revulsion aside, though, I suppose that it demonstrates that human sacrifice in North America didn't go away with the Aztecs, as well as just how stubborn and irrational the lynch-supporting crowds must've been to have doubled down on their cruelty instead of realizing that maybe the "great sin" they alleged committed to have lost the Civil War...went the other away (radical opinion, I know). Seriously, I'd have expected this shit from Waffen-SS troops or the Russian Civil War rather than average Southerners at the time, even with the KKK forming and cultivating influence down there.

The American South may have a far better place to live in 2019, yes. But I can somewhat sympathize with the pain lingering in minority communities over that horrific legacy today, however skeptical I remain of their more intersectional solutions and the like.

[stevep]

Nov 3, 2019 19:37:15 GMT Zyobot said:

Nov 3, 2019 7:04:38 GMT spanishspy said:

A rather disturbing article about the religious undertones of lynchings in the American South.

Dear God. That sure makes me grateful as hell not to have grown up in the Jim-Crow South.

Personal revulsion aside, though, I suppose that it demonstrates that human sacrifice in North America didn't go away with the Aztecs, as well as just how stubborn and irrational the lynch-supporting crowds must've been to have doubled down on their cruelty instead of realizing that maybe the "great sin" they alleged committed to have lost the Civil War...went the other away (radical opinion, I know). Seriously, I'd have expected this shit from Waffen-SS troops or the Russian Civil War rather than average Southerners at the time, even with the KKK forming and cultivating influence down there.

The American South may have a far better place to live in 2019, yes. But I can somewhat sympathize with the pain lingering in minority communities over that horrific legacy today, however skeptical I remain of their more intersectional solutions and the like.

  Fully agree.  Have read in the past how brutal some of the lynchings were but this is vile.  Suspect that there is an element of human sacrifice present as the article says. 

[dayton3]

IIRC Lynching's were not nearly as common in the south or anywhere else in the U.S. as many people believe or like to claim.

[Zyobot]

Nov 13, 2019 15:56:29 GMT dayton3 said:

IIRC Lynching's were not nearly as common in the south or anywhere else in the U.S. as many people believe or like to claim.

Oh?

[dayton3]

Nov 14, 2019 16:13:01 GMT Zyobot said:

Nov 13, 2019 15:56:29 GMT dayton3 said:

IIRC Lynching's were not nearly as common in the south or anywhere else in the U.S. as many people believe or like to claim.

Oh?

Just my understanding from what I've read over the years. 

[stevep]

Nov 17, 2019 1:02:42 GMT dayton3 said:

Nov 14, 2019 16:13:01 GMT Zyobot said:

Oh?

Just my understanding from what I've read over the years. 

  Whether the total is in the thousands or just the hundreds its too many by a long way. 

[Zyobot]

Nov 17, 2019 12:16:16 GMT stevep said:

Nov 17, 2019 1:02:42 GMT dayton3 said:

Just my understanding from what I've read over the years. 

  Whether the total is in the thousands or just the hundreds its too many by a long way. 

Wait, actually? Then where does the impression that lynchings and other murderous hate crimes ran rampant in the Jim Crow South come from?

I can speculate as to one answer, but would like to know the real cause lest I be completely off-base.

[dayton3]

Nov 17, 2019 15:35:08 GMT Zyobot said:

Nov 17, 2019 12:16:16 GMT stevep said:

  Whether the total is in the thousands or just the hundreds its too many by a long way. 

Wait, actually? Then where does the impression that lynchings and other murderous hate crimes ran rampant in the Jim Crow South come from?

I can speculate as to one answer, but would like to know the real cause lest I be completely off-base.

Oh no doubt about that.   The actual number only is a factor when you are making certain inferences about American society and culture.   A really low number indicates that the crimes were outliers.   A high number indicates a total or at least partial societal acceptance of the crimes. 

[stevep]

Nov 17, 2019 15:45:40 GMT dayton3 said:

Nov 17, 2019 15:35:08 GMT Zyobot said:

Wait, actually? Then where does the impression that lynchings and other murderous hate crimes ran rampant in the Jim Crow South come from?

I can speculate as to one answer, but would like to know the real cause lest I be completely off-base.

Oh no doubt about that.   The actual number only is a factor when you are making certain inferences about American society and culture.   A really low number indicates that the crimes were outliers.   A high number indicates a total or at least partial societal acceptance of the crimes. 

  Well from the reported involvement of large sections of the community and open brutality and even celebration of the events in at least some cases there was at least "partial societal acceptance" in a number of cases. 

  A quick Wiki check see Lynching_United_States, has some details.  This includes that

i)  "A study of the period from 1868 to 1871 estimates that the KKK was involved in more than 400 lynchings"

ii)  "Between 1882 and 1968, the Tuskegee Institute recorded 1,297 lynchings of whites and 3,446 lynchings of blacks".  Note that not all of those would have has a clear racial basis but many, including some of the white lynching would as white people opposing racial oppression were also targeted by mob violence at times.

[Zyobot]

Nov 17, 2019 22:32:46 GMT stevep said:

Nov 17, 2019 15:45:40 GMT dayton3 said:

Oh no doubt about that.   The actual number only is a factor when you are making certain inferences about American society and culture.   A really low number indicates that the crimes were outliers.   A high number indicates a total or at least partial societal acceptance of the crimes. 

  Well from the reported involvement of large sections of the community and open brutality and even celebration of the events in at least some cases there was at least "partial societal acceptance" in a number of cases. 

  A quick Wiki check see Lynching_United_States, has some details.  This includes that

i)  "A study of the period from 1868 to 1871 estimates that the KKK was involved in more than 400 lynchings"

ii)  "Between 1882 and 1968, the Tuskegee Institute recorded 1,297 lynchings of whites and 3,446 lynchings of blacks".  Note that not all of those would have has a clear racial basis but many, including some of the white lynching would as white people opposing racial oppression were also targeted by mob violence at times.

...Well, I suppose that counts as all the more reason why I’m beyond fortunate to have never lived in the Jim Crow South, and was born long after civil rights became mainstream and, eventually, an axiomatic norm throughout America as a whole.

I take it, however, that had I grown up down there between the Civil War’s end and the 1970s, any showing of sympathy towards racial minorities would’ve made me...unsafe from the racist mob’s wrath, to say the least.

Actually, that makes me wonder if there was a surprising number of closeted non-racists who were amicable to civil rights legislation back then, but seldom—or never—spoke out until long after the fact (because of how they would’ve become social pariahs overnight). But that’s a separate topic to cover elsewhere.

[stevep]

Nov 18, 2019 4:12:53 GMT Zyobot said:

Nov 17, 2019 22:32:46 GMT stevep said:

  Well from the reported involvement of large sections of the community and open brutality and even celebration of the events in at least some cases there was at least "partial societal acceptance" in a number of cases. 

  A quick Wiki check see Lynching_United_States, has some details.  This includes that

i)  "A study of the period from 1868 to 1871 estimates that the KKK was involved in more than 400 lynchings"

ii)  "Between 1882 and 1968, the Tuskegee Institute recorded 1,297 lynchings of whites and 3,446 lynchings of blacks".  Note that not all of those would have has a clear racial basis but many, including some of the white lynching would as white people opposing racial oppression were also targeted by mob violence at times.

...Well, I suppose that counts as all the more reason why I’m beyond fortunate to have never lived in the Jim Crow South, and was born long after civil rights became mainstream and, eventually, an axiomatic norm throughout America as a whole.

I take it, however, that had I grown up down there between the Civil War’s end and the 1970s, any showing of sympathy towards racial minorities would’ve made me...unsafe from the racist mob’s wrath, to say the least.

Actually, that makes me wonder if there was a surprising number of closeted non-racists who were amicable to civil rights legislation back then, but seldom—or never—spoke out until long after the fact (because of how they would’ve become social pariahs overnight). But that’s a separate topic to cover elsewhere.

  Quite probably on the latter point.  You might want to do/support some change but not enough to stick your neck out and put you or your family at risk.

  While such activities are generally associated with the old south/CAS area it should be remembered they were more widespread.  In the big surge of support for the KKK in the years immediately after WWI the state it had the most members in was Indiana for instance.  This resurgence of the klan was partly due to the movement of blacks out of the south to new job opportunities in the northern industrial centres and also a significant anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish elements in their themes.  As such not purely anti-black but still a nasty threat to any blacks in any areas it gained influence.

[spanishspy]

On the topic of the number of lynchings I would also like to bring to your attention the lynchings of Asians in the West. The largest such mass lynching was of Chinese in Los Angeles.

[stevep]

Nov 19, 2019 20:26:35 GMT spanishspy said:

On the topic of the number of lynchings I would also like to bring to your attention the lynchings of Asians in the West. The largest such mass lynching was of Chinese in Los Angeles.

  Nasty.  there was a lot of anti-Asian feeling, especially in the west where they were seen as an economic threat and knew things got bad but not aware of this before.

[Zyobot]

Nov 19, 2019 20:26:35 GMT spanishspy said:

On the topic of the number of lynchings I would also like to bring to your attention the lynchings of Asians in the West. The largest such mass lynching was of Chinese in Los Angeles.

How disgusting. And a demonstration that pretty much no demographic was safe from the racist mob's wrath, when they set their minds to making their perceived enemies pay the ultimate price for merely existing.