PC: Japanese incursion into Australia in 1942?

[James G]

Invasion fears ran high in Australia in 1942 following the bombing of Darwin and subsequent air attacks. A full-on invasion was out of the question for the Japanese, but could they have made a limited landing on the northern coast, say around Darwin?
Allied attention would have been drawn there with a desperate effort to get them out, diverting recourses from elsewhere leading to Japanese successes where they really wanted them. It would seem likely that the invaders would be thrown out, but it would take a while and afterwards Allied forces would remain in-strength for a long time to stop another attempt.
Sound plausible?

[lordroel]

May 25, 2020 13:12:27 GMT James G said:

Invasion fears ran high in Australia in 1942 following the bombing of Darwin and subsequent air attacks. A full-on invasion was out of the question for the Japanese, but could they have made a limited landing on the northern coast, say around Darwin?
Allied attention would have been drawn there with a desperate effort to get them out, diverting recourses from elsewhere leading to Japanese successes where they really wanted them. It would seem likely that the invaders would be thrown out, but it would take a while and afterwards Allied forces would remain in-strength for a long time to stop another attempt.
Sound plausible?

Well the Japanese could expand this operation a little bit more, but they will risk being found out:

[EwellHolmes]

Just prior to the fall of Singapore in February 1942, General Yamashita submitted a proposal to invade and occupy Darwin and its surrounds, recognising that air attacks alone, no matter how successful, could not eliminate permanently the threat. This would have employed troops then on their way to Bali and Timor (~20,000) and the land and carrier based aircraft that were presently in the area, against which the allies had no more than a dozen P-40 Kittyhawks, a couple of B-17s and three heavy anti-aircraft guns. Landings in late February 1942 would have built on the disorder and confusion of the collapsing Allied command in Java. Yamashita’s plan called for a force of a division to be landed on the coast near Daly River Station and push inland towards Adelaide River and from there north – a total distance of two hundred kilometres, taking Darwin from the landward side. The coastal conditions were well known to the Japanese; in fact they had better maps of the north of Australia than the Australians had.

Once Darwin was in Japanese hands there would have been no possibility of conducting the air raids on South-East Asia that continually hindered Japanese efforts to get the Indonesian oil industry operational, or exports of other strategic resources from E.S. Asian ports that were obstructed by mines dropped by Australian and American B-17s. Nor would the commando raids that tied down so many Japanese troops in the region, 20,000 in Timor alone, have been possible. Japanese bombers operating from Darwin and Batchelor airfields could have hit any target in Queensland down as far as Brisbane, including the docks in Brisbane and Townsville where vitally important war supplies were being unloaded. In the west they could hit any target down to Exmouth, threatening to sever the air link to India. Such bombers could have operated unescorted and unhindered with no Australian modern fighter aircraft closer than Egypt, no more than twenty American P-40s transiting Australia on their way to Java, and only 17 heavy anti-aircraft guns in the entire country.

Once taken Darwin would have been secure: it could not be attacked from the south and an amphibious invasion would have to come from either the east or west. East would have to brave the narrows of the Torres Straits, where they’d have been sitting ducks to air attack from Darwin and Ambon and would have been well beyond the island hopping operations the allies conducted along the New Guinea coastline. An attack from the west would have been equally beyond the range of Allied air support without first building up a string of new bases along the west coast, or otherwise equally vulnerable to prolonged air attack before approaching Darwin.

[lordroel]

May 26, 2020 3:36:12 GMT EwellHolmes said:

Just prior to the fall of Singapore in February 1942, General Yamashita submitted a proposal to invade and occupy Darwin and its surrounds, recognising that air attacks alone, no matter how successful, could not eliminate permanently the threat. This would have employed troops then on their way to Bali and Timor (~20,000) and the land and carrier based aircraft that were presently in the area, against which the allies had no more than a dozen P-40 Kittyhawks, a couple of B-17s and three heavy anti-aircraft guns. Landings in late February 1942 would have built on the disorder and confusion of the collapsing Allied command in Java. Yamashita’s plan called for a force of a division to be landed on the coast near Daly River Station and push inland towards Adelaide River and from there north – a total distance of two hundred kilometres, taking Darwin from the landward side. The coastal conditions were well known to the Japanese; in fact they had better maps of the north of Australia than the Australians had.

Once Darwin was in Japanese hands there would have been no possibility of conducting the air raids on South-East Asia that continually hindered Japanese efforts to get the Indonesian oil industry operational, or exports of other strategic resources from E.S. Asian ports that were obstructed by mines dropped by Australian and American B-17s. Nor would the commando raids that tied down so many Japanese troops in the region, 20,000 in Timor alone, have been possible. Japanese bombers operating from Darwin and Batchelor airfields could have hit any target in Queensland down as far as Brisbane, including the docks in Brisbane and Townsville where vitally important war supplies were being unloaded. In the west they could hit any target down to Exmouth, threatening to sever the air link to India. Such bombers could have operated unescorted and unhindered with no Australian modern fighter aircraft closer than Egypt, no more than twenty American P-40s transiting Australia on their way to Java, and only 17 heavy anti-aircraft guns in the entire country.

Once taken Darwin would have been secure: it could not be attacked from the south and an amphibious invasion would have to come from either the east or west. East would have to brave the narrows of the Torres Straits, where they’d have been sitting ducks to air attack from Darwin and Ambon and would have been well beyond the island hopping operations the allies conducted along the New Guinea coastline. An attack from the west would have been equally beyond the range of Allied air support without first building up a string of new bases along the west coast, or otherwise equally vulnerable to prolonged air attack before approaching Darwin.

So this fake plan does not apply even though may have been accepted by Australian Prime Minister John Curtin in 1942.



also nice to read is: “He’s (not) coming south” The invasion that wasn’t

[EwellHolmes]

May 26, 2020 3:49:13 GMT lordroel said:

May 26, 2020 3:36:12 GMT EwellHolmes said:

Just prior to the fall of Singapore in February 1942, General Yamashita submitted a proposal to invade and occupy Darwin and its surrounds, recognising that air attacks alone, no matter how successful, could not eliminate permanently the threat. This would have employed troops then on their way to Bali and Timor (~20,000) and the land and carrier based aircraft that were presently in the area, against which the allies had no more than a dozen P-40 Kittyhawks, a couple of B-17s and three heavy anti-aircraft guns. Landings in late February 1942 would have built on the disorder and confusion of the collapsing Allied command in Java. Yamashita’s plan called for a force of a division to be landed on the coast near Daly River Station and push inland towards Adelaide River and from there north – a total distance of two hundred kilometres, taking Darwin from the landward side. The coastal conditions were well known to the Japanese; in fact they had better maps of the north of Australia than the Australians had.

Once Darwin was in Japanese hands there would have been no possibility of conducting the air raids on South-East Asia that continually hindered Japanese efforts to get the Indonesian oil industry operational, or exports of other strategic resources from E.S. Asian ports that were obstructed by mines dropped by Australian and American B-17s. Nor would the commando raids that tied down so many Japanese troops in the region, 20,000 in Timor alone, have been possible. Japanese bombers operating from Darwin and Batchelor airfields could have hit any target in Queensland down as far as Brisbane, including the docks in Brisbane and Townsville where vitally important war supplies were being unloaded. In the west they could hit any target down to Exmouth, threatening to sever the air link to India. Such bombers could have operated unescorted and unhindered with no Australian modern fighter aircraft closer than Egypt, no more than twenty American P-40s transiting Australia on their way to Java, and only 17 heavy anti-aircraft guns in the entire country.

Once taken Darwin would have been secure: it could not be attacked from the south and an amphibious invasion would have to come from either the east or west. East would have to brave the narrows of the Torres Straits, where they’d have been sitting ducks to air attack from Darwin and Ambon and would have been well beyond the island hopping operations the allies conducted along the New Guinea coastline. An attack from the west would have been equally beyond the range of Allied air support without first building up a string of new bases along the west coast, or otherwise equally vulnerable to prolonged air attack before approaching Darwin.

So this fake plan does not apply even though may have been accepted by Australian Prime Minister John Curtin in 1942.



also nice to read is: “He’s (not) coming south” The invasion that wasn’t

Basically, yes; the IJA only ever seriously looked at Darwin, and categorically refused Navy suggestions for a broader invasion.

[gillan1220]

Australia's harsh terrain and wildlife will take a toll on the invading Japanese.

[lordroel]

Jun 4, 2020 13:33:44 GMT gillan1220 said:

Australia's harsh terrain and wildlife will take a toll on the invading Japanese.

Also thier supply route will be hounded down by allies submarines, aircraft and surface units.

[gillan1220]

Jun 4, 2020 14:54:52 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 4, 2020 13:33:44 GMT gillan1220 said:

Australia's harsh terrain and wildlife will take a toll on the invading Japanese.

Also thier supply route will be hounded down by allies submarines, aircraft and surface units.

Imagine trying to conquer the continent and head to the barren Outback desert. There is basically nothing of strategic value there.

[stevep]

Jun 5, 2020 6:24:59 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 4, 2020 14:54:52 GMT lordroel said:

Also thier supply route will be hounded down by allies submarines, aircraft and surface units.

Imagine trying to conquer the continent and head to the barren Outback desert. There is basically nothing of strategic value there.

  It would be a vert good way of killing a lot of troops.  All of them Japanese.  Their men were tough and used to a lot of hardship but they still need food and water.

[gillan1220]

Jun 5, 2020 12:13:57 GMT stevep said:

Jun 5, 2020 6:24:59 GMT gillan1220 said:

Imagine trying to conquer the continent and head to the barren Outback desert. There is basically nothing of strategic value there.

  It would be a vert good way of killing a lot of troops.  All of them Japanese.  Their men were tough and used to a lot of hardship but they still need food and water.

I'd also imagine the dangerous wildlife like the salt-water crocodiles, poisonous conch shells, the Portuguese man-of-war, great white sharks, stingrays, and wolverines have a field day on invading Japanese troops.

[stevep]

Jun 5, 2020 13:04:54 GMT gillan1220 said:

Jun 5, 2020 12:13:57 GMT stevep said:

  It would be a vert good way of killing a lot of troops.  All of them Japanese.  Their men were tough and used to a lot of hardship but they still need food and water.

I'd also imagine the dangerous wildlife like the salt-water crocodiles, poisonous conch shells, the Portuguese man-of-war, great white sharks, stingrays, and wolverines have a field day on invading Japanese troops.

  Very likely, although I think lack of basic supplies are likely to be the big killers.

  In terms of Australian wildlife any Terry Pratchett fans out there reminded of the classic bit in his "The Last Continent" book.  As he said the continent XXXX is not at all based on Australia.

  For those who don't know the character Death has a magic library which contains a copy of all books and he can summon them simply by asked a question about a subject.  Having seen Rincewind miraculously avoiding assorted dangerous wildlife on XXXX he asked two questions:

a)  For information on dangerous wildlife in XXXX.  It takes several minutes for his servants to help him escape the mountain of documents that results and buries him.

b)  He then asked if any creatures on XXXX are not dangerous.  After about a minute when nothing happens he's turning to leave when he hears something and sees a single sheet of paper float down which contains the text "some of the sheep". 

  A classic and a much missed author.

[EwellHolmes]

In terms of an "incursion", Darwin alone, as I said earlier, fits and would be easy for the Japanese to sustain. Attempting a full invasion is out of the question.

[spanishspy]

Jun 6, 2020 2:34:58 GMT EwellHolmes said:

In terms of an "incursion", Darwin alone, as I said earlier, fits and would be easy for the Japanese to sustain. Attempting a full invasion is out of the question.

It would be best used as a way of threatening the Australian government to surrender. It'd be a bluff, and depending how the rest of the war is going the Australians might accede anyway.

[lordroel]

Jun 6, 2020 4:36:22 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 6, 2020 2:34:58 GMT EwellHolmes said:

In terms of an "incursion", Darwin alone, as I said earlier, fits and would be easy for the Japanese to sustain. Attempting a full invasion is out of the question.

It would be best used as a way of threatening the Australian government to surrender. It'd be a bluff, and depending how the rest of the war is going the Australians might accede anyway.

Do not think Australia will surrender if by luck the Japanese mange to invade Darwin, the Australians and Allies can simply isolate the Japanese in Darwin and wait if needed.

[stevep]

Jun 6, 2020 8:51:49 GMT lordroel said:

Jun 6, 2020 4:36:22 GMT spanishspy said:

It would be best used as a way of threatening the Australian government to surrender. It'd be a bluff, and depending how the rest of the war is going the Australians might accede anyway.

Do not think Australia will surrender if by luck the Japanese mange to invade Darwin, the Australians and Allies can simply isolate the Japanese in Darwin and wait if needed.

  Agreed.  I doubt they would surrender, especially since their in an alliance and dependent on the other powers for aid plus what would the Japanese terms be? 

  What might be the issue if the Japanese managed to occupy Darwin, is that the Australian government would be under considerable pressure to liberate the region.  Which could be a difficult task for a fair while given how isolated the region is except by sea.  Plus that the Japanese would have had air superiority across the region for a while at least.