James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608 
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Aug 4, 2020 18:00:11 GMT
Ted Kennedy, brother of JFK & RFK, ran a primary challenge against President Jimmy Carter in 1979/80. It failed.
There was a lot of chaos in the campaign and memories of what happened to that girl who Ted left to die. Kennedy had plenty of establishment support though from those in Congress at odds with Carter and also those in love with the myth of the Kennedy magic.
Can Ted make a success of his run and defeat Carter for the Democratic nomination?
Can he then go on to beat Reagan and take the White House?
Or is this just plain impossible?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,096
Likes: 49,492
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 4, 2020 18:16:51 GMT
Ted Kennedy, brother of JFK & RFK, ran a primary challenge against President Jimmy Carter in 1979/80. It failed. There was a lot of chaos in the campaign and memories of what happened to that girl who Ted left to die. Kennedy had plenty of establishment support though from those in Congress at odds with Carter and also those in love with the myth of the Kennedy magic. Can Ted make a success of his run and defeat Carter for the Democratic nomination? Can he then go on to beat Reagan and take the White House? Or is this just plain impossible? Is that the Chappaquiddick incident we are talking about. |
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Aug 4, 2020 18:43:12 GMT
Ted Kennedy, brother of JFK & RFK, ran a primary challenge against President Jimmy Carter in 1979/80. It failed. There was a lot of chaos in the campaign and memories of what happened to that girl who Ted left to die. Kennedy had plenty of establishment support though from those in Congress at odds with Carter and also those in love with the myth of the Kennedy magic. Can Ted make a success of his run and defeat Carter for the Democratic nomination? Can he then go on to beat Reagan and take the White House? Or is this just plain impossible? Is that the Chappaquiddick incident we are talking about. Yes. Massachusetts elected him senator time and time again afterwards. In his failed presidential primary campaign, noted liberals nationwide ignored that issue. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,096
Likes: 49,492
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 4, 2020 18:47:26 GMT
Is that the Chappaquiddick incident we are talking about. Yes. Massachusetts elected him senator time and time again afterwards. In his failed presidential primary campaign, noted liberals nationwide ignored that issue. Well in the For All Mankind (TV series) the Soviets landed first on the moon, thus no Chappaquiddick incident as Ted stayed home to watch the Soviet landing, maybe a lesser dramatic POD can be used here. |
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,352
Likes: 7,260
|
Post by Zyobot on Aug 4, 2020 18:57:51 GMT
Is that the Chappaquiddick incident we are talking about. Yes. Massachusetts elected him senator time and time again afterwards. In his failed presidential primary campaign, noted liberals nationwide ignored that issue. That's too bad, at least from what little I've read about the issue.
On a separate note, I wonder how Ted would respond to issues like Stagflation spiraling out of control? Because even though it seemed to originate under the Nixon administration (who built up a more liberal record by today's standards), people tend to blame the incumbent party for troubles that surface on its watch. Hence, the Democrats catching the blame for the economic crisis getting out of hand, and making it all that much harder for Kennedy to win in 1980. |
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Aug 5, 2020 17:18:07 GMT
Yes. Massachusetts elected him senator time and time again afterwards. In his failed presidential primary campaign, noted liberals nationwide ignored that issue. Well in the For All Mankind (TV series) the Soviets landed first on the moon, thus no Chappaquiddick incident as Ted stayed home to watch the Soviet landing, maybe a lesser dramatic POD can be used here. Good idea for a POD. Still, even without that, his behaviour was likely to cause something else scandal-worthy. That's too bad, at least from what little I've read about the issue.
On a separate note, I wonder how Ted would respond to issues like Stagflation spiraling out of control? Because even though it seemed to originate under the Nixon administration (who built up a more liberal record by today's standards), people tend to blame the incumbent party for troubles that surface on its watch. Hence, the Democrats catching the blame for the economic crisis getting out of hand, and making it all that much harder for Kennedy to win in 1980. That is a good point. When reading about Ted's campaign - and it was terrible - he launched it before the Iran hostage crisis. Initially, this gave a rally-around-the-flag effect for Carter, doing damage to Ted's momentum, though soon enough Americans turned to blame Carter for it all. So, on that reasoning, even if the primary challenge worked, voters may still blame the Democrats for the hostage situation and thus Kennedy too? |
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,352
Likes: 7,260
|
Post by Zyobot on Aug 5, 2020 17:54:34 GMT
Well in the For All Mankind (TV series) the Soviets landed first on the moon, thus no Chappaquiddick incident as Ted stayed home to watch the Soviet landing, maybe a lesser dramatic POD can be used here. Good idea for a POD. Still, even without that, his behaviour was likely to cause something else scandal-worthy. That's too bad, at least from what little I've read about the issue.
On a separate note, I wonder how Ted would respond to issues like Stagflation spiraling out of control? Because even though it seemed to originate under the Nixon administration (who built up a more liberal record by today's standards), people tend to blame the incumbent party for troubles that surface on its watch. Hence, the Democrats catching the blame for the economic crisis getting out of hand, and making it all that much harder for Kennedy to win in 1980. That is a good point. When reading about Ted's campaign - and it was terrible - he launched it before the Iran hostage crisis. Initially, this gave a rally-around-the-flag effect for Carter, doing damage to Ted's momentum, though soon enough Americans turned to blame Carter for it all. So, on that reasoning, even if the primary challenge worked, voters may still blame the Democrats for the hostage situation and thus Kennedy too? [Shrugs] I don't know. Maybe people will differentiate between who they blame for the economic turmoil (Jimmy Carter and the Democrats as a whole), and who specifically they blame for the hostage crisis? Because unlike the economy, the hostage crisis doesn't seem like something that the other branches of government would have much sway over, hence Carter catching the public's ire for that. And presumably, Ted won't suffer from that as much, so long as he doesn't botch his public response to it?
Because some combination of the latter, plus how well he does in the upcoming presidential debates, seems like a recipe for a big GOP victory in this alternate 1980, too. Though by how much Reagan wins relative to OTL, I don't know. Nor am I all that familiar with Ted's debate skills and exact policy positions, which you probably know more about than I.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,867
Likes: 13,253
|
Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2020 14:44:18 GMT
Reminded me of a couple of comments I remember reading about his campaign, which suggests he had serious problems. a) "The only two things I dislike about Ted Kennedy are his two faces." b) For security and safety reasons there was a medical nurse attached to his cavalcade. She was see sitting in the Kennedy bus at one point putting up a vote Carter sticker by her window.
Now this was a long time back and can't confirm they were accurate but does sound like an underlying mistrust of him.
|
|
|
|
Post by american2006 on Aug 11, 2020 12:18:11 GMT
Given JFK and RFK’s very bad luck, Ted might not live through his campaign
In all seriousness though, sure.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,096
Likes: 49,492
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 11, 2020 13:32:44 GMT
Given JFK and RFK’s very bad luck, Ted might not live through his campaign In all seriousness though, sure. You are talking about the Kennedy curse. |
|
|
|
Post by american2006 on Aug 11, 2020 13:45:00 GMT
Given JFK and RFK’s very bad luck, Ted might not live through his campaign In all seriousness though, sure. You are talking about the Kennedy curse. Yes. Of course, all just a conspiracy, but you have to admit, the shear number of times the Kennedys have met their end early is almost comical |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,096
Likes: 49,492
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 11, 2020 13:52:39 GMT
You are talking about the Kennedy curse. Yes. Of course, all just a conspiracy, but you have to admit, the shear number of times the Kennedys have met their end early is almost comical Sadly the curse also struck this year when Daughter and grandson of Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, RFK's daughter died while swimming. |
|
