Cold Warriors: The Essex Class in the Cold War

[lordroel]

Aug 10, 2020 15:29:06 GMT ssgtc said:

June 20, 1957
Amsterdam, New Holland, Netherlands

Prime Minister Drees gives formal approval to the Ministry of Defence's plan to reinforce West New Guinea. The destroyers Gelderland and Friesland are ordered to prepare to deploy for six and eight months respectively to New Guinea. Some consideration had been given by the committee to deploying several ships permanently to West New Guinea, but cost and the fact that the island lacked the necessary port facilities to support warships long term meant no ships would be permanently stationed there. It was hoped instead that the rotation of destroyers and frigates to the area would prevent there being a gap in coverage.

Good destroyers they where.

[stevep]

Aug 10, 2020 15:27:27 GMT ssgtc said:

June 18, 1957
Amsterdam, New Holland, Netherlands

The Committee for the Defense of West New Guinea presents their formal findings to the Defense Minister and the heads of the armed forces. They present three sets of options. A "Best Defense" option which gives no consideration to cost or other commitments. A "Bare Minimum" option which weighs other potential flash points as being more important and assigns West New Guinea the smallest possible force suitable only to serve as a trip wire deterrent. And a compromise option, which gives West New Guinea a credible defensive force, with regular deployments of a carrier as show of force, while still recognizing financial constraints and commitments elsewhere.

Predictably, the "Best Defense" option, which recommended the permanent deployment of a light cruiser and five destroyers (along with regular deployments of an aircraft carrier and it's escorts), a wing of air defense fighters and an entire regiment of ground troops is discarded out of hand as being unworkable. The "Bare Minimum" option receives far more study. While the forces would certainly be weak, they should be at least equal to anything Indonesia could deploy to the theater. And as a deterrent, they would be marvelously effective as they were not being sent to fight a war, but to prevent one by showing the Netherlands commitment to the defense of New Guinea.

After hours of meetings and studying the proposals, Minister Staf decides to recommend that the Netherlands permanently deploy an air defense fighter squadron and rotate two destroyers or frigates to West New Guinea. While he would have liked to deploy a battalion of Marines as well, the Netherlands simply did not have the available manpower to spare. Instead, a volunteer para-military force would be raised from the locals and trained by a company of Marines with a Marine Colonel in overall command. He would also go on to recommend the occasional deployment of the Karel Doorman to the Far East once her modernization was completed. The bare minimum option had won out.

  Of course the barest minimum approach works fine if the potential attacker is deterred.  If their not it generally becomes more costly than the best defence option.

[stevep]

Aug 10, 2020 15:29:46 GMT ssgtc said:

June 21, 1957
Langley, VA, USA

The Deputy Director of Plans and head of the Special Activities Division, Frank Wisner, was in a closed door meeting with Alan Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence. All of the proposed operations were laid out before Director Dulles with a particular emphasis on destabilizing the economy of Indonesia and supporting a coup by the Army. The Indonesian officers to be supported had no love of the government in Jakarta and wished to break away. However it was thought that with the proper amount of support, they could be persuaded to instead topple the government of President Sukarno and seize power for themselves while bringing Indonesia back into the Western Camp.

After spending the day briefing the DCI, the decision was made, pending approval from Robert Cutler the National Security Advisor and from President Eisenhower, to begin providing support to Colonels Ahmad Hussein and Ventje Sumual to coup President Sukarno. Not only would they provide intelligence and training, the CIA would also offer military equipment to aide in the struggle. Approval for the operation from the White House arrived just before midnight.

  Why do I have an itch in the back of my mind that this is going to fail spectacularly.

[ssgtc]

Aug 10, 2020 15:48:09 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 10, 2020 15:29:06 GMT ssgtc said:

June 20, 1957
Amsterdam, New Holland, Netherlands

Prime Minister Drees gives formal approval to the Ministry of Defence's plan to reinforce West New Guinea. The destroyers Gelderland and Friesland are ordered to prepare to deploy for six and eight months respectively to New Guinea. Some consideration had been given by the committee to deploying several ships permanently to West New Guinea, but cost and the fact that the island lacked the necessary port facilities to support warships long term meant no ships would be permanently stationed there. It was hoped instead that the rotation of destroyers and frigates to the area would prevent there being a gap in coverage.

Good destroyers they where.

They were good ASW ships and marginal anti-surface ships. But they were essentially defenseless when it comes to air attack. The HOLLAND class only mounted 4x120mm guns and a single 40mm gun. While the FRIESLAND class mounted the same main armament and 6x40mm. When the HOLLAND class were built, the Dutch hadn't built a major warship in 15 years (pre-WWII). That lack of experience really shows when comparing them to say the USN. Hell, their power plants were a copy of the GEARING class from WWII.

In this same time frame, the USN was building the FOREST SHERMAN class DD (3x5",4x3" 2x Hedgehogs, 4x21" torpedo tubes) and the FARRAGUT class DDG (1x5", Terrier SAM, ASROC and 6 ASW torpedo tubes). That missing 15 years hurts them.

[ssgtc]

Aug 10, 2020 16:57:20 GMT stevep said:

Aug 10, 2020 15:29:46 GMT ssgtc said:

June 21, 1957
Langley, VA, USA

The Deputy Director of Plans and head of the Special Activities Division, Frank Wisner, was in a closed door meeting with Alan Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence. All of the proposed operations were laid out before Director Dulles with a particular emphasis on destabilizing the economy of Indonesia and supporting a coup by the Army. The Indonesian officers to be supported had no love of the government in Jakarta and wished to break away. However it was thought that with the proper amount of support, they could be persuaded to instead topple the government of President Sukarno and seize power for themselves while bringing Indonesia back into the Western Camp.

After spending the day briefing the DCI, the decision was made, pending approval from Robert Cutler the National Security Advisor and from President Eisenhower, to begin providing support to Colonels Ahmad Hussein and Ventje Sumual to coup President Sukarno. Not only would they provide intelligence and training, the CIA would also offer military equipment to aide in the struggle. Approval for the operation from the White House arrived just before midnight.

  Why do I have an itch in the back of my mind that this is going to fail spectacularly.

Because the OTL CIA attempt to topple Sukarno was a massive fuck up from start to finish?

[lordroel]

Aug 10, 2020 17:15:27 GMT ssgtc said:

In this same time frame, the USN was building the FOREST SHERMAN class DD (3x5",4x3" 2x Hedgehogs, 4x21" torpedo tubes) and the FARRAGUT class DDG (1x5", Terrier SAM, ASROC and 6 ASW torpedo tubes). That missing 15 years hurts them.

Well a German occupation will do that to ship building and design, i think in 1957 the Royal Netherlands Navy consisted of:

Aircraft carrier

Colossus-class aircraft carrier

HNLMS Karel Doorman, being rebuild at Wilton-Fijenoord, Schiedam where she is getting an 8° angled flight deck, new elevators, new island, 40 mm anti-aircraft guns, steam catapult, and all new aviation facilities and electronics, to re entered service in 1958.

Cruisers

De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser

HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën
HNLMS De Ruyter

Destroyer

Friesland-class destroyer

HNLMS Friesland
HNLMS Groningen
HNLMS Limburg
HNLMS Overijssel, under construction at Wilton-Fijenoord, Schiedam.
HNLMS Drenthe, under construction at NDSM, Amsterdam.
HNLMS Utrecht, under construction at KM de Schelde, Vlissingen.
HNLMS Rotterdam, under construction at RDM, Rotterdam.
HNLMS Amsterdam, under construction at NDSM, Amsterdam.

Holland-class destroyer

HNLMS Holland
HNLMS Zeeland
HNLMS Noord-Brabant
HNLMS Gelderland

S-class destroyer

HNLMS Evertsen, acquired from the British in 1946.
HNLMS Kortenaer, acquired from the British in 1945, converted to a fast frigate in 1957.
HNLMS Piet Hein, acquired from the British in 1945, converted to a fast frigate in 1957.

Frigate

Roofdier-class frigate

HNLMS Wolf
HNLMS Fret
HNLMS Hermelijn
HNLMS Vos
HNLMS Panter
HNLMS Jaguar

Van Amstel-class frigate

Cannon-class destroyer escort built for the US Navy during World War II.

HNLMS Van Amstel
HNLMS De Bitter
HNLMS Van Ewijck
HNLMS Dubois
HNLMS De Zeeuw
HNLMS Van Zijll.

Corvettes

Bathurst-class corvettes

HNLMS Boeroe
HNLMS Batjan
HNLMS Ceram

Submarines

Balao-class submarine (Walrus-class submarine)

HNLMS Walrus
HNLMS Zeeleeuw

British T-class submarine (Zwaardvisch-class submarine)

HNLMS Zwaardvisch
HNLMS Tijgerhaai

[ssgtc]

Yeah, the Netherlands was one of the biggest losers in WWII. They went from Great Power status to one step above a banana republic in 6 years. And they really paid in their ability to modernize their military. Hell, their Navy was still flying TBF Avengers as their primary strike aircraft in 1959!

[lordroel]

Aug 10, 2020 18:28:27 GMT ssgtc said:

Yeah, the Netherlands was one of the biggest losers in WWII. They went from Great Power status to one step above a banana republic in 6 years. And they really paid in their ability to modernize their military. Hell, their Navy was still flying TBF Avengers as their primary strike aircraft in 1959!

But while outdated in 1957/58, they look good.



Wonder how good Hawker Sea Hawk fighters will do against Indonesian Migs.

Ore The Neterlands needs to buy a second carrier from the United states if that is possabile. 

[ssgtc]

Well, the answer is, it depends. In a vacuum, Indonesia has the better fighters. The Sea Hawk tops out at 600MPH. The MiG-15UTIs can do 688, while the MiG-17s can do 711. It's really probably going to come down to training

[ssgtc]

June 22, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

The first Soviet Air Force advisors and trainers arrive at Iswahyudi Air Force Base to begin preparing the Indonesians to receive their new equipment. The Soviet mission is led by Colonel Nikolai Vasilyevich Sutyagin, the top scoring ace from either side of the Korean War with twenty-two kills. Having spent nearly his entire career in the Far East and flown in combat in Korea, he was narrowly selected for the job over Colonel Yevgeny Georgievich Pepelyaev, the second highest scoring Soviet pilot of the war. His second in command was Major Boris Nikolayavich Siskov, another Korean War ace. The Soviet Union was doing everything they could to show Indonesia just how valuable a partner they could be.

Along with the air crew and ground support trainers, the Soviet Air Force also sent experienced base personal to share their expertise with the Indonesian personal to assist in upgrading the Air Base facilities at Iswahyudi, Sultan Hasanuddin and Halim Perdanakusuma Air Force Bases. The three main Indonesian Air Force bases are all to be upgraded with hardened dispersal areas, new weapons storage facilities, new briefing rooms and updated fuel storage and transfer systems. Preparations are also begun to install Ground Controlled Intercept stations at all three airbases.

[ssgtc]

June 23, 1957
Balikpapan, Borneo, Indonesia

The Soviet oil tanker Alatyr` departs the oil loading pier for her return voyage to the port of Odessa in the Ukrainian SSR. As one of the newest and largest tankers operated by the Ministerstvo Morskogo Flota (MMF, the Soviet Ministry of the Merchant Marine), Alatyr` departs Balikpapan with over 11,000 metric tons of light crude in her holds. The light crude oil is destined for the Mazyr Oil Refinery in Belarus.

In Moscow, Nikolai Baibakov, the Minister of Oil Industry for the USSR was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Indonesian crude. While the Soviet Union was largely self sufficient in oil, they could re-export the refined oil at a hefty markup to their Eastern European client states, or even to Western Europe, and increase the Soviet Union's hard currency reserves. Beyond the hard currency the oil would bring in, purchasing Indonesian crude had another, more strategic benefit: it kept it out of the hands of NATO.

Along with his Comrades on the Council of Ministers, Minister Baibakov had a long list of ways that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics would benefit from their new relationship with Indonesia.

[ssgtc]

June 25, 1957
Jakarta, Indonesia

Soviet Ambassador to Indonesia D.A. Zhukov sat behind his desk while the Embassy's Intelligence Officer briefed him on developments in the United States. Four days previously, the American CIA had been ordered by President Eisenhower to overthrow the government of President Sukarno. How the KGB had managed to find out so quickly was a mystery to him, but he knew better than to question it. They wouldn't be telling him if the information had not been confirmed.

Following his briefing, he called Merdeka Palace to arrange an urgent meeting with President Sukarno. Armed with a portfolio of information that the KGB had cleared him to provide to the Indonesian President, he hurried to the palace for his meeting. Upon his arrival he was ushered straight into the office of the President. Following a nearly two hour meeting, Ambassador Zhukov returned to the embassy and sipped from a glass of vodka while he composed his report to Moscow. The Indonesian President was now aware of the threat to his government and appreciated the support of the USSR. He had also promised to show that appreciation in more concrete ways going forward.

[ssgtc]

June 26, 1957
Bombay, India

Russi Karanjia gave the final approval for the latest issue of his tabloid, Blitz. The front page was emblazoned with a photograph of Indonesian President Sukarno. The headline, which was splashed across the cover read, The Plot to Overthrow Sukarno. Russi had a very good source on this, the Cultural Attache from the Russian Consulate. While he pretended not to know that the "Cultural Attache" was actually a spy, he didn't become one of the leading investigative journalists in India by being stupid. And the man gave him some absolute gold to publish.

And this story about the United States plotting the overthrow of Sukarno was a bombshell. His readers would devour it. And it would hopefully shame the United States into not overthrowing yet another country. The United States was not well liked in this part of the world. They tended to try and throw their weight around too much for his taste and the tastes of his readers. He knew that the Soviet Union was using his paper to advance their own agenda. But their agenda tended to align with his own. Particularly in regard to some of the exposes that he was able to publish.

And this story tomorrow was sure to boost his readership. He had already ordered more copies than usual printed. How he wished he could see the look on the American President's face when he realized his carefully planned secret mission was exposed for all to see.

[ssgtc]

June 28, 1957
Langley, VA, USA

Heads were rolling at the CIA. The operation to overthrow Sukarno had only been approved a week previously and already the full details of the operation had been published in a KGB controlled tabloid. Hard questions were being asked in the Directorate of Plans about just how in the hell the Soviets had already found out about this. Several people had suggested canceling the operation outright as it would not have a prayer of succeeding now. Those people were overruled. The operation would continue. Though consideration was given to changing certain aspects of it to increase the odds of it succeeding.

[ssgtc]

July 2, 1957
Central Sumatra, Indonesia

Filipino CIA paramilitary officers met with Colonels Hussein and Sumual to begin assisting them in their planned rebellion against the government of President Sukarno. Filipino officers were chosen as they would be able to better blend in with the general populace. The first order of business was setting up training camps for the men under the Colonels' command.

The second was working out how to equip and supply those forces. The need for modern small arms, light artillery and combat aircraft was acute if the rebellion was to have any chance at all of succeeding. The CIA Operatives had a list of equipment that the CIA could provide, most of it taken from American "boneyards" in the Southwestern United States.

The final point was "preparing the battlespace," by conducting psychological warfare. The CIA would finance and set up radio stations throughout Indonesia to broadcast anti-Sukarno propaganda. It was hoped that the rebels would be able to conduct a successful campaign against the government within the next six months to a year.