Cold Warriors: The Essex Class in the Cold War

[lordroel]

Aug 16, 2020 15:42:45 GMT ssgtc said:

Aug 16, 2020 15:28:31 GMT archibald said:

Ah... the Sverdlovsk class Ordzenikidze (terrible name, sorry). It was the same ship that led to the misterious death of Lionel Crabb some years earlier.

Icing on the cake: the Buccaneer was created expressedly to deal with these monsters... lobbing a tactical nuke into their faces.

Yeah, the 1950s were more than a little nuke happy. It seemed that the solution to every problem was "nuke it."

Well that was the time that duck and cover would safe you from a nuke explosion.

[ssgtc]

Aug 16, 2020 18:00:35 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 16, 2020 15:42:45 GMT ssgtc said:

Yeah, the 1950s were more than a little nuke happy. It seemed that the solution to every problem was "nuke it."

Well that was the time that duck and cover would safe you from a nuke explosion.

Well, at least doing that would let you kiss your ass goodbye before dying...

[lordroel]

So will we see this also happening in this TL, Essex-class modernizations 1944–1960.

[ssgtc]

Aug 16, 2020 18:29:29 GMT lordroel said:

So will we see this also happening in this TL, Essex-class modernizations 1944–1960.

Right now, Oriskany is getting her SCB-125A overhaul and Lake Champlain is scheduled to get hers later in the year.

[lordroel]

Aug 16, 2020 19:04:37 GMT ssgtc said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:29:29 GMT lordroel said:

So will we see this also happening in this TL, Essex-class modernizations 1944–1960.

Lake Champlain is scheduled to get hers later in the year.

Wich will be another POD as Lake Champlain was the only Essex-class ship to receive the SCB-27 conversion but not the SCB-125 conversion making here in OTL the last operational US aircraft carrier with an axial flight deck.

[archibald]

Surely, the 50's were insane as far as nuclear power went. There are some extremely bonkers projects that leave you shake your head in disbelief

"Let's nuke the moon to impress the Soviets" (Project A-119)

"Let's bore an entire granite mountain to turn it into a mega-hardened ICBM silo" (Golden Crown)

"Let's put Minutemans into ice tunnels bored into Greenland ice cap" (Iceworm)

"Let's detonate H-bombs into subterranean lakes to get steam to drive turbines" (PACER)

"Let's dig a second Panama tunnel using nuclear explosives"

"Let's build a giant spaceship with nuclear explosions pushing a steel plate mounted on springs attached to the spacecraft" (Orion)

"Let's build Projet PLUTO - a Mach 4 nuclear missile that kill people four times rather than one, just to be sure nobody survives.

a) with its supersonic shock wave

b) with its radiation spewing nuclear ramjet

c) by popping out nuclear bombs on targets and

d) by crashing itself and its hot nuclear reactor into the ground at Mach 4 at the end of the flight"

"Let's build a 1000 megaton bomb".

"Let's build a neutron bomb to kill people without destroying hardware"

"Let's build cobalt bombs to salt the earth, Carthage style."

Dear God.

[ssgtc]

Aug 16, 2020 19:09:57 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 16, 2020 19:04:37 GMT ssgtc said:

Lake Champlain is scheduled to get hers later in the year.

Wich will be another POD as Lake Champlain was the only Essex-class ship to receive the SCB-27 conversion but not the SCB-125 conversion making here in OTL the last operational US aircraft carrier with an axial flight deck.

Yeah, her SCB-125A overhaul which would have brought her up to the same standard as Oriskany, was originally authorized for FY1957, but apparently the Navy requested that the money from it be reallocated to other projects. Which makes sense given that, in the next 4 years, the Navy would have commissioned three conventionally powered super carriers and one nuclear carrier. While Lake Champlain would spend most of that time (almost 3 years) in drydock.

[stevep]

Aug 16, 2020 19:18:16 GMT archibald said:

Surely, the 50's were insane as far as nuclear power went. There are some extremely bonkers projects that leave you shake your head in disbelief

"Let's nuke the moon to impress the Soviets" (Project A-119)

"Let's bore an entire granite mountain to turn it into a mega-hardened ICBM silo" (Golden Crown)

"Let's put Minutemans into ice tunnels bored into Greenland ice cap" (Iceworm)

"Let's detonate H-bombs into subterranean lakes to get steam to drive turbines" (PACER)

"Let's dig a second Panama tunnel using nuclear explosives"

"Let's build a giant spaceship with nuclear explosions pushing a steel plate mounted on springs attached to the spacecraft" (Orion)

"Let's build Projet PLUTO - a Mach 4 nuclear missile that kill people four times rather than one, just to be sure nobody survives.

a) with its supersonic shock wave

b) with its radiation spewing nuclear ramjet

c) by popping out nuclear bombs on targets and

d) by crashing itself and its hot nuclear reactor into the ground at Mach 4 at the end of the flight"

"Let's build a 1000 megaton bomb".

"Let's build a neutron bomb to kill people without destroying hardware"

"Let's build cobalt bombs to salt the earth, Carthage style."

Dear God.

  Well to be fair with the neutron bomb, at least when it was being talked about in the 1970s/80s there are a logical basis.  The idea was to kill Soviets forces, including those in armoured vehicles while doing minimal damage to the infrastructure in the probably allied areas they were advancing through and also any friendly civilians who were sheltering in cellars nearby - which I think was the standard instructions, at least in W Germany for populations in areas being overrun. 

[lordroel]

Aug 16, 2020 19:21:19 GMT ssgtc said:

Aug 16, 2020 19:09:57 GMT lordroel said:

Wich will be another POD as Lake Champlain was the only Essex-class ship to receive the SCB-27 conversion but not the SCB-125 conversion making here in OTL the last operational US aircraft carrier with an axial flight deck.

Yeah, her SCB-125A overhaul which would have brought her up to the same standard as Oriskany, was originally authorized for FY1957, but apparently the Navy requested that the money from it be reallocated to other projects. Which makes sense given that, in the next 4 years, the Navy would have commissioned three conventionally powered super carriers and one nuclear carrier. While Lake Champlain would spend most of that time (almost 3 years) in drydock.

And now in this TL they all get the SCB-125 conversion, but that still unlike the modern carrier coming into service, the Essex cannot handle the bigger heavier phantoms i guess, ore am i wrong. 

[ssgtc]

Aug 17, 2020 15:20:59 GMT lordroel said:

Aug 16, 2020 19:21:19 GMT ssgtc said:

Yeah, her SCB-125A overhaul which would have brought her up to the same standard as Oriskany, was originally authorized for FY1957, but apparently the Navy requested that the money from it be reallocated to other projects. Which makes sense given that, in the next 4 years, the Navy would have commissioned three conventionally powered super carriers and one nuclear carrier. While Lake Champlain would spend most of that time (almost 3 years) in drydock.

And now in this TL they all get the SCB-125 conversion, but that still unlike the modern carrier coming into service, the Essex cannot handle the bigger heavier phantoms i guess, ore am i wrong. 

They technically can. The -125A overhaul gave them the C11-1 catapults, which were slightly more powerful than the standard C11 used in the -27C conversions. Even the standard cats COULD handle the bigger planes. But the Intruder and Phantom were fuel and ammo hogs. And the Essex class had limited storage for both compared to the newer decks. That was actually the main reason given to the Navy why they couldn't use the planes from the class. About the only type that couldn't be flown operationally from the Essex class is the Vigilante (and obviously the Tomcat).

[lordroel]

Aug 17, 2020 20:30:22 GMT ssgtc said:

Aug 17, 2020 15:20:59 GMT lordroel said:

And now in this TL they all get the SCB-125 conversion, but that still unlike the modern carrier coming into service, the Essex cannot handle the bigger heavier phantoms i guess, ore am i wrong. 

They technically can. The -125A overhaul gave them the C11-1 catapults, which were slightly more powerful than the standard C11 used in the -27C conversions. Even the standard cats COULD handle the bigger planes. But the Intruder and Phantom were fuel and ammo hogs. And the Essex class had limited storage for both compared to the newer decks. That was actually the main reason given to the Navy why they couldn't use the planes from the class. About the only type that couldn't be flown operationally from the Essex class is the Vigilante (and obviously the Tomcat).

Seeing these two next to each other, i can see why the Vigilante is a little bit to big and heavy i guess for a Essex.

[ssgtc]

August 1, 1957
Sulawesi, Indonesia


Major General Suharto met with Colonels Hussein and Sumal. As the representative of the Government in Jakarta, he was there to make one last ditch effort to bring the rebel officers back into the fold. He was there because he could sympathize with the rebellious Colonels nationalist views. Like them, he had no love of the Communists. But the Soviet Union was one of the only countries willing to support them in their anti-imperialist claims. Particularly in regard to West Irian and Malaya. So he was willing to work with them. A case of the enemy of my enemy, is my friend.


Now if only he could convince these men of that. His offer was straight forward. The government in Jakarta would make a greater effort to develop some of the more outlying islands like Sulawesi and Sumatra instead of concentrating so much on Java. The Officers would receive amnesty and be allowed to honorably retire with a full pension. The common soldiers under them would also be granted amnesty and would be allowed to continue with their careers with no negative repercussions. And the government would reevaluate their relationship with the Soviet Union once the West Irian situation was resolved. But if they refused, no mercy would be shown to them and the Government would order in the Army to burn them out, root and stem.


The offer by General Suharto was turned down. The rebel officers were sure of their cause and their abilities to win through to ultimate victory. They were so sure of the outcome, that they made a counter-offer. They offered to have General Suharto join them in their cause. In nearly any capacity he wished. The nascent rebellion could use a man of his skills. Either as a military commander, or as their man inside the government to inform them of how the military intended to respond them. Like General Suharto's offer to them, their offer to him was refused. Suharto would not turn his back on his government.

[ssgtc]

August 5, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

Colonel Sutyagin smiles under his oxygen mask as he takes the first of the completed MiG-15s into the air. The stick felt good in his hand as the trainer rocketed up into the sky. Perhaps the combat take-off was a bit much on what was supposed to be a check flight to make sure everything worked on the aircraft, but he just couldn't resist showing off a little bit. Leveling the MiG off at ten thousand meters, he began running down his checklist and verifying system functionality.

Two and a half hours later, Nikolai gently set the fighter down on runway 17R and taxied to the hanger. The technicians had done well. His gripe list was actually fairly short. With luck, they could make the few repairs needed in short order and they could begin training the Indonesians in proper Soviet tactics. And as the ground crew assembled more aircraft they would hopefully get better at it and take less time while making fewer errors.

[ssgtc]

August 7, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

The first and second MiG-15s launched into the still morning air of East Java. This is the second flight for the first trainer, meant only to verify that Colonel Sutyagin's gripe sheet had been cleared, while it is the first flight for the second trainer. At the controls of the second aircraft is Captain Saleh Basarah while Major Siskov was in the rear seat as both an instructor and safety pilot in case the Indonesian Captain was unable to complete the aircraft's check flight.

Captain Basarah was the first Indonesian pilot to complete the ground syllabus for the MiG-15 and had been given the honor of taking the second MiG off the ground for the first time. As Captain Basarah began running down the checklist for the newly assembled aircraft, Major Siskov quickly came to the realization that the Indonesian pilot in the front seat was a complete professional and a natural born pilot.

Unlike the day before, the gripe sheet from this flight is considerably longer. Included on the sheet is a potentially fatal flaw. The rear controls of the trainer failed during the flight. Fortunately for both Major Siskov and Captain Basarah, the front controls continued functioning while they two men executed an emergency decent and returned to base.

[lordroel]

Aug 30, 2020 15:46:32 GMT ssgtc said:

August 5, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

Colonel Sutyagin smiles under his oxygen mask as he takes the first of the completed MiG-15s into the air. The stick felt good in his hand as the trainer rocketed up into the sky. Perhaps the combat take-off was a bit much on what was supposed to be a check flight to make sure everything worked on the aircraft, but he just couldn't resist showing off a little bit. Leveling the MiG off at ten thousand meters, he began running down his checklist and verifying system functionality.

Two and a half hours later, Nikolai gently set the fighter down on runway 17R and taxied to the hanger. The technicians had done well. His gripe list was actually fairly short. With luck, they could make the few repairs needed in short order and they could begin training the Indonesians in proper Soviet tactics. And as the ground crew assembled more aircraft they would hopefully get better at it and take less time while making fewer errors.

So the Indonesian can fly the MiG-15, now how will they fare in combat with most likely western pilots and their fighters.