Rogue Generals: A Different Post-EDSA Uno Philippines TL

[TheRomanSlayer]

May 17, 2021 3:10:35 GMT gillan1220 said:

May 17, 2021 2:58:44 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

Technicals are also suited for the deserts as well, and other flat areas.

Having the Tadiar AFP operate technicals would be more fuel efficient compared to armored vehicles considering the UN sanctions.

True, given that OTL's Philippine Army only managed to acquire the new ASCOD tanks recently, and that they might have decommissioned their old Walker Bulldogs. ITTL, the technicals might be a good substitute for the Walker Bulldogs, but ITTL we also have the M551 Sheridan light tanks that the Tadiar regime acquired. 

[kyuzoaoi]

What brand of pickups they use for technicals?

[TheRomanSlayer]

May 17, 2021 14:01:24 GMT kyuzoaoi said:

What brand of pickups they use for technicals?

Mostly Toyota’s.

[stevep]

May 16, 2021 21:13:55 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

Chapter Sixty: The African Odyssey



"The premature death of Mobutu Sese Seko in June 18, 1994, from a prolonged stroke, had stunned the Zairian nation. In the emerging power struggle that erupted, there were several competing players that are vying for the top leadership in Zaire. In July of 1994, Kengo Wa Dondo emerged as the new President of Zaire, but his plans for a free market reform and the imposition of austerity measures had become unpopular with many of Zaire's population, many of whom had suffered from the economic hardships sustained during the Mobutu dictatorship. Waiting in the wings however, is a man that many Africans would happily call the Zairian Artemio Tadiar. General Donatien Mahele Lieko Bokungu had distrusted the new President, to the point where he started to blame him for the growing economic decline, as a result of President Dondo's implementation of austerity measures. Furthermore, while General Bokungu waited for the right moment, until he could launch his own coup, the events surrounding the Rwandan Genocide had forced the Zairian government had forced him to intervene in the potential mass murder of Hutu refugees who stayed in eastern Zaire by Tutsi vigilantes. Citing a growing threat from the genocidaires, or the perpetrators of the Rwandan Genocide, General Bokungu ordered the Zairian Army to deploy into eastern Zaire, to prevent any potential attacks on the Hutu refugees, even going as far as to threaten the Rwandan government with a military invasion if the Hutu refugees were to be attacked. Although the Rwandan government had by that time, had gone through several interim Presidents, none of them were willing to halt the genocide. Indeed, Rwanda had barely struggled to recover from their civil war, and the mutual genocide had threatened the stability of the Central Africa region. Angered at the apparent unwillingness of the Zairian government to deal with the growing instability at their eastern border, General Bokungu launched a coup against the Zairian government on September 21, 1995. As soon as Bokungu seized power, he immediately ordered the executions of politicians who were connected to the interim President, Kengo Wa Dondo, as well as Dondo himself. The brutal purges conducted by General Bokungu were carried out for a whole week, in which as many as 54,000 pro-Dondo Zairians were killed by the emerging Zairian junta. While General Bokungu would also struggle to restore order in the country, he made the most controversial decision in his entire military career: he would turn to the officers of an army that technically no longer existed, in the form of Heinz Kessler, and the former East German soldiers who were unable to join the Bundeswehr. To make things even weirder, General Botungu would also hire around 300 ex-Nationale Volksarmee, or former East German soldiers, as mercenaries that could also act as drill sergeants in helping to retrain the Zairian Army. While his other intended diplomatic target had by now, chosen to isolate his nation diplomatically, General Bokungu would outdo even his own controversial decision to hire the ex-East Germans as mercenaries, by reaching out to Artemio Tadiar's regime in the Philippines. In response, the Tadiar regime had to scramble for a military attache who could work in Zaire, and they have already struggled to find a suitable candidate. In the end, it was Colonel Gerardo Gambala who was sent to Zaire as a military attache to General Bokungu." PBS Documentary "The Era of Rogue Generals in Africa", released on January 18, 2018.

---

  TheRomanSlayer ,

  I'm a bit confused about this.  It seems to suggest that either the Hutu junta who organized the genocide stayed in power for quite a number more years or that the Tutsi who gained power were as brutal to the Hutu and were themselves deposed by the 2nd Zairian invasion in ~2000?  Can you clarify please?

  Sounds like Bokungu started off as murderous as Tadiar but moved to unite and improve his country rather than devastating it as Tadiar did the Philippines.

  Steve

[gillan1220]

I was wondering with OTL's Miss Universe craze, I would like to think that the Philippines of TTL won't send candidates to compete in it because of the sanctions against Tadiar.

[kyuzoaoi]

Probably some...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_South_Africa

Even during Apartheid, South Africa still sent candidates.

[TheRomanSlayer]

May 17, 2021 15:53:22 GMT stevep said:

May 16, 2021 21:13:55 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

Chapter Sixty: The African Odyssey



"The premature death of Mobutu Sese Seko in June 18, 1994, from a prolonged stroke, had stunned the Zairian nation. In the emerging power struggle that erupted, there were several competing players that are vying for the top leadership in Zaire. In July of 1994, Kengo Wa Dondo emerged as the new President of Zaire, but his plans for a free market reform and the imposition of austerity measures had become unpopular with many of Zaire's population, many of whom had suffered from the economic hardships sustained during the Mobutu dictatorship. Waiting in the wings however, is a man that many Africans would happily call the Zairian Artemio Tadiar. General Donatien Mahele Lieko Bokungu had distrusted the new President, to the point where he started to blame him for the growing economic decline, as a result of President Dondo's implementation of austerity measures. Furthermore, while General Bokungu waited for the right moment, until he could launch his own coup, the events surrounding the Rwandan Genocide had forced the Zairian government had forced him to intervene in the potential mass murder of Hutu refugees who stayed in eastern Zaire by Tutsi vigilantes. Citing a growing threat from the genocidaires, or the perpetrators of the Rwandan Genocide, General Bokungu ordered the Zairian Army to deploy into eastern Zaire, to prevent any potential attacks on the Hutu refugees, even going as far as to threaten the Rwandan government with a military invasion if the Hutu refugees were to be attacked. Although the Rwandan government had by that time, had gone through several interim Presidents, none of them were willing to halt the genocide. Indeed, Rwanda had barely struggled to recover from their civil war, and the mutual genocide had threatened the stability of the Central Africa region. Angered at the apparent unwillingness of the Zairian government to deal with the growing instability at their eastern border, General Bokungu launched a coup against the Zairian government on September 21, 1995. As soon as Bokungu seized power, he immediately ordered the executions of politicians who were connected to the interim President, Kengo Wa Dondo, as well as Dondo himself. The brutal purges conducted by General Bokungu were carried out for a whole week, in which as many as 54,000 pro-Dondo Zairians were killed by the emerging Zairian junta. While General Bokungu would also struggle to restore order in the country, he made the most controversial decision in his entire military career: he would turn to the officers of an army that technically no longer existed, in the form of Heinz Kessler, and the former East German soldiers who were unable to join the Bundeswehr. To make things even weirder, General Botungu would also hire around 300 ex-Nationale Volksarmee, or former East German soldiers, as mercenaries that could also act as drill sergeants in helping to retrain the Zairian Army. While his other intended diplomatic target had by now, chosen to isolate his nation diplomatically, General Bokungu would outdo even his own controversial decision to hire the ex-East Germans as mercenaries, by reaching out to Artemio Tadiar's regime in the Philippines. In response, the Tadiar regime had to scramble for a military attache who could work in Zaire, and they have already struggled to find a suitable candidate. In the end, it was Colonel Gerardo Gambala who was sent to Zaire as a military attache to General Bokungu." PBS Documentary "The Era of Rogue Generals in Africa", released on January 18, 2018.

---

  TheRomanSlayer ,

  I'm a bit confused about this.  It seems to suggest that either the Hutu junta who organized the genocide stayed in power for quite a number more years or that the Tutsi who gained power were as brutal to the Hutu and were themselves deposed by the 2nd Zairian invasion in ~2000?  Can you clarify please?

  Sounds like Bokungu started off as murderous as Tadiar but moved to unite and improve his country rather than devastating it as Tadiar did the Philippines.

  Steve

That portion will have to be reviewed and retconned, as I know almost nothing about African history, given that it’s not really taught in schools. What it is, is that the 1st Zairean invasion of Rwanda was basically a tactical Rwandan victory, but a strategic stalemate. The 2nd invasion though, that would be a decisive victory for Zaire and the RPF.

[simeon]

Genocidaire rule until the 2000's? Goddamn, Paul Kagame had done it goof ITTL, why? Also, it would only mean that there would be far, FAR fewer Tutsis in the country than the few that the OTL country had right now.

[TheRomanSlayer]

May 17, 2021 23:59:30 GMT simeon said:

Genocidaire rule until the 2000's? Goddamn, Paul Kagame had done it goof ITTL, why? Also, it would only mean that there would be far, FAR fewer Tutsis in the country than the few that the OTL country had right now.

I might have to retcon the entire update, as Africa isn’t my strong suit in this case, but I will say this: Mobutu’s early death in 1994 would have led to eastern Zaire being inundated with Tutsi refugees, rather than Hutu refugees, as the Hutus won’t have an ally in Mobutu. General Bokungu would be above all, someone who wants to restore order in Zaire. Paul Kagame was in the US, as a student in the Command and General Staff College when the Genocide happened, and only returned to take control of the RPF. In this case, Kagame would have an incentive to go directly to Zaire and present himself as Bokungu’s ally, meaning that Zaire would have a larger amount of Tutsis, rather than Hutus. Although I don’t really see either the Genocidaires or any Tutsi extremist going into Tadiar’s Philippines, since that might cause a political thunderstorm that could depose Tadiar and bring in an even worse dictator than him.

[TheRomanSlayer]

So the retcons are done, and they are all highlighted in green.

[kyuzoaoi]

www.deviantart.com/juche16789/art/The-Mangulabnan-Junta-2026-WIP-879155981

Why these uniforms smell Tadiar all over them?

[TheRomanSlayer]

This is good. On the other hand, I might be asking for your help in designing what the uniform of TTL's AFP would be like.

[kyuzoaoi]

Indeed. I think it would be at best a ripoff of this uniform.

www.deviantart.com/holyredeemer/art/Philippine-Army-A-II-Service-Uniform-826928691

[TheRomanSlayer]

True. I will also ask for your help with other stuff as well.

[stevep]

May 18, 2021 2:41:57 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

So the retcons are done, and they are all highlighted in green.

  TheRomanSlayer,

  Sorry but I'm still rather confused.  You have:

Furthermore, while General Bokungu waited for the right moment, until he could launch his own coup, the events surrounding the Rwandan Genocide had forced the Zairian government to intervene in the potential mass murder of Hutu refugees who stayed in eastern Zaire by Tutsi vigilantes. Furthermore, the assassinations of both former Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana and Burundian President Cyprien Ntaryamira, by extremists tied to the Rwandan Patriotic Front, had resulted in greater instability within eastern Zaire, as President Dondo's government struggled to handle the incoming Hutu refugees fleeing from Tutsi violence. While the assassinations had provided Hutu extremists to carry out the purges against both moderate Hutu and Tutsi politicians, General Bokungu was able to warn one of the moderates, a certain Faustin Twagiramungu, of the assassination plot, and as a result, he emerged as one of the most prominent non-extremist Hutu figurehead in Zaire. Although the Rwandan government had by that time, had gone through several interim Presidents, as well as multiple additional purges, none of them were willing to halt the genocide. Indeed, Rwanda had barely struggled to recover from their civil war, and the mutual genocide had threatened the stability of the Central Africa region. Angered at the apparent unwillingness of the Zairian government to deal with the growing instability at their eastern border, General Bokungu launched a coup against the Zairian government on September 21, 1995. As soon as Bokungu seized power, he immediately ordered the executions of politicians who were connected to the interim President, Kengo Wa Dondo, as well as Dondo himself. The brutal purges conducted by General Bokungu were carried out for a whole week, in which as many as 54,000 pro-Dondo Zairians were killed by the emerging Zairian junta. Inside eastern Zaire, the Hutu refugees rallied around Twagiramungu and a Rwandan military defector named Augustin Bizimungu, calling for other Hutus to focus instead on driving out the Rwandan Patriotic Front from Rwanda instead of carrying on with the genocide. Bokungu saw an ally in Bizimungu, and backed his efforts to retake Rwanda from Paul Kagame's Rwandan Patriotic Front, only to end in Paul Kagame being driven out of Rwanda, and Bizimungu betraying Bokungu by attempting to assassinate Twagiramungu. However, the assassination attempt failed, but it did provide the necessary pretext for the later 2001 second invasion of Rwanda, this time in cooperation with Paul Kagame's RPF that had now been bolstered by the recruitment from among the Hutu refugees who remained loyal to Twagiramungu. 

  The 1st couple of highlighted posts talk of Hutu refugees in Zaire, as if the RPF had managed to quickly stop the genocide and overthrow the people responsible, leading many Hutu's to flee to Zaire where, being controlled by the people behind the genocide - as I understand it from history - they continued to clash with the RPF now in control of Rwanda, leading to the latter sending forces into Zaire.  However the next section seems to suggest that the Hutu's were still in charge in Rwanda and continuing the genocide? 

  The next one talks about a combined force to drive the RPF from Rwanda instead of continuing with the genocide, which again suggests that Rwanda is under RPF control but that Hutu's are also continuing the genocide??

  The final one again talks of the RPF being in charge and the aim of Bokungu to expel it from the country then with "only to end" which sounds like it ended up with a different result than intended in Kagame - and presumably the RPF - being expelled from the country.  As such it sounded like it gained the expected results apart from the attempt to assassinate Twagiramungu by Bizimungu but the language is a bit odd.

  I hope you can understand why there's still some confusion here?  Did the RPF manage to drive the bulk of the extremists from Rwanda and if so how can the genocide continue?  Or is Rwanda TTL split between the two factions?

  As I understand it from memory - all be it several decades ago and I don't know too much about the aftermath - Hutu extremists started the genocide of both Tutsi's and moderate Hutus, killing several hundred thousand before Kagame and the RPF managed to defeat them and drive them from the country.  This ended the genocide but with many Hutu's especially those implicated in the massacres, fleeing to Zaire and continued clashes between the two groups leading later to a Rwandan invasion to drive the Hutu's further away, increasingly the OTL collapse of Zaire. 

  A quick check with wiki says that the original assassination of the two leaders when their aircraft was shot down is blamed on extremists of both sides who opposed the Arusha Accords but its unclear who was responsible.

  Steve