US Air Force PC: Streamlined Production of F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II with Problems Solved?

[TheRomanSlayer]

The F-22 Raptor is notorious for some of its flaws, and upon further research, it was revealed that pilot safety was an issue. Overtime, I've heard that the F-35 had several problems while in production as well. Overall, I kinda get the feeling that the US Air Force sometimes overengineer its fighter planes.

Is it already OTL, or is it a potential challenge to at least cut back on the overengineering portion of the F-35 Lightning and to at least streamline the production of both the F-22 and F-35, in a similar manner to how Eurofighter and Gripen fighter planes?

[lordroel]

Dec 27, 2020 6:39:39 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

Is it already OTL, or is it a potential challenge to at least cut back on the overengineering portion of the F-35 Lightning and to at least streamline the production of both the F-22 and F-35, in a similar manner to how Eurofighter and Gripen fighter planes?

Would this reduce the cost of a single unit.

[stevep]

Dec 27, 2020 10:41:16 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 27, 2020 6:39:39 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

Is it already OTL, or is it a potential challenge to at least cut back on the overengineering portion of the F-35 Lightning and to at least streamline the production of both the F-22 and F-35, in a similar manner to how Eurofighter and Gripen fighter planes?

Would this reduce the cost of a single unit.

  It might do although given the interests of the military companies they might end up charging more for the extra work involved of 're-engineering' the design.

  I remember somewhere on this site a bit was posted about the very high tech helmet for the F-35 which gave some good abilities but sounds like it could overload pilots with info and was a pig in terms of keeping it [the helmet] operational as it needed constant resetting and modifying.

  I think part of the problem, its a serious one in the UK as well, that often government requirements are poorly thought out and frequently changed over the [very long] development period and also with insufficient observation of the companies involved which means gold-bricking often occurs.

[gillan1220]

So much for promising to produce 800 units of the F-22 Raptor.

Either way, both projects would be so expensive that it's gonna end up like the failed USN Littoral Combat Ship project.

[lordroel]

Dec 27, 2020 15:19:27 GMT gillan1220 said:

So much for promising to produce 800 units of the F-22 Raptor.

Either way, both projects would be so expensive that it's gonna end up like the failed USN Littoral Combat Ship project.

Also more F-22s, would that mean that Israel and Japan could buy them.

[gillan1220]

Dec 27, 2020 15:25:51 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 27, 2020 15:19:27 GMT gillan1220 said:

So much for promising to produce 800 units of the F-22 Raptor.

Either way, both projects would be so expensive that it's gonna end up like the failed USN Littoral Combat Ship project.

Also more F-22s, would that mean that Israel and Japan could buy them.

I did ponder on the fact on what if the F-22 was sold to allied countries such as Taiwan, Australia, and the UK to name a few but that is for another scenario.

Maybe in this scenario steve hypothesized, the USAF would be able to reach the projected 800 units.

[lordroel]

Dec 27, 2020 15:30:26 GMT gillan1220 said:

Dec 27, 2020 15:25:51 GMT lordroel said:

Also more F-22s, would that mean that Israel and Japan could buy them.

I did ponder on the fact on what if the F-22 was sold to allied countries such as Taiwan, Australia, and the UK to name a few but that is for another scenario.

Maybe in this scenario steve hypothesized, the USAF would be able to reach the projected 800 units.

Taiwan would never be allowed to get a F-35 ore a F-22, the United States might be worried to much of the planes technology might end up in the PRC.

[gillan1220]

Dec 27, 2020 15:31:41 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 27, 2020 15:30:26 GMT gillan1220 said:

I did ponder on the fact on what if the F-22 was sold to allied countries such as Taiwan, Australia, and the UK to name a few but that is for another scenario.

Maybe in this scenario steve hypothesized, the USAF would be able to reach the projected 800 units.

Taiwan would never be allowed to get a F-35 ore a F-22, the United States might be worried to much of the planes technology might end up in the PRC.

I just remembered. There are cases of pilot defections from the ROCAF to the PRC. One of them even brought an F-5 to the mainland in 1983. So yeah, Taiwan can't purchase it.

[stevep]

Dec 27, 2020 15:19:27 GMT gillan1220 said:

So much for promising to produce 800 units of the F-22 Raptor.

Either way, both projects would be so expensive that it's gonna end up like the failed USN Littoral Combat Ship project.

  It might not be a failure in that it never really enters production in anything like planned numbers and being withdrawn very quickly because of fundamental errors.  However its likely to be very expensive, even for the US, which would tend to limit the numbers produced.  Whether it would fulfill its planned performance in combat hopefully we will never know.

[griml0ck122]

i wonder if there are some things that are designed new that don't need to be. I know design optimization a key feature of why American planes are so effective, but if prototypes don't need brand new landing gear i don't see why all new fighters need it. Little off the shelf things may bring unit cost down a bit (not a lot)

[lordroel]

So if more F-22s are build, can we assume the F-22N Sea Raptor might also be build.

[TheRomanSlayer]

I wonder if that is also a basic upgrade from the F-22 Raptor? The Sea Raptor, or would we see a cross breed between the F-22 and the F-18 Super Hornet in yet another attempt at making an upgrade?

[gillan1220]

Dec 30, 2020 5:01:18 GMT TheRomanSlayer said:

I wonder if that is also a basic upgrade from the F-22 Raptor? The Sea Raptor, or would we see a cross breed between the F-22 and the F-18 Super Hornet in yet another attempt at making an upgrade?

It would most likely look like that. In that case, it would become redundant for the Navy to the get the F-35C variant.