The ASB Elections Thread

[Zyobot]

Some are largely symbolic and respectful of the status quo regardless of outcome, others decisive signs of a gravitic shift in the paradigm. But none have explicitly defied the laws of nature by pitting candidates operating in much different times and circumstances against one another to see how they stack up. At least, not until now.

So, what are some of the most interesting ASB elections you can come up with, whether they invoke time travel or otherwise-ineligible candidates throwing their hat into the race? If we could see some electoral maps to go along with the suggestions people propose, that'd be great. Perhaps even a summary of how the election itself might go, for those feeling ambitiously descriptive.

Myself, I've proposed more than a few cross-time US presidential elections, including but not limited to:

• Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012)
• Alf Landon (1936) Vs. Walter Mondale (1984)
  
• Barack Obama (2012) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
• Barry Goldwater (1964) Vs. George McGovern (1972)
  
• Bill Clinton (1996) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
  
• Dwight Eisenhower (1956) Vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1936)
  

• George H.W. Bush (1988) Vs. Harry Truman (1948)
• George W. Bush (2000) Vs. John F. Kennedy (1960)
• Jeb Bush (2016) Vs. Michael Dukakis (1988)
  
• Lyndon B. Johnson (1964) Vs. Richard Nixon (1972)
• Theodore Roosevelt (1904) Vs. William James Bryan (1896)

We can certainly discuss scenarios other than the ones listed upstream, of course.

Thank you in advance,

Zyobot

[lordroel]

Jul 10, 2021 18:53:42 GMT Zyobot said:

Some are largely symbolic and respectful of the status quo regardless of outcome, others decisive signs of a gravitic shift in the paradigm. But none have explicitly defied the laws of nature by pitting candidates operating in much different times and circumstances against one another to see how they stack up. At least, not until now.

So, what are some of the most interesting ASB elections you can come up with, whether they invoke time travel or otherwise-ineligible candidates throwing their hat into the race? If we could see some electoral maps to go along with the suggestions people propose, that'd be great. Perhaps even a summary of how the election itself might go, for those feeling ambitiously descriptive.

Myself, I've proposed more than a few cross-time US presidential elections, including but not limited to:

• Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012)
• Alf Landon (1936) Vs. Walter Mondale (1984)
  
• Barack Obama (2012) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
• Barry Goldwater (1964) Vs. George McGovern (1972)
  
• Bill Clinton (1996) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
  
• Dwight Eisenhower (1956) Vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1936)
  

• George H.W. Bush (1988) Vs. Harry Truman (1948)
• George W. Bush (2000) Vs. John F. Kennedy (1960)
• Jeb Bush (2016) Vs. Michael Dukakis (1988)
  
• Lyndon B. Johnson (1964) Vs. Richard Nixon (1972)
• Theodore Roosevelt (1904) Vs. William James Bryan (1896)

We can certainly discuss scenarios other than the ones listed upstream, of course.

Thank you in advance,

Zyobot

Question, what year do the election take place, is it in present time, the year that is closet to ours.

[Zyobot]

Jul 10, 2021 19:15:52 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 10, 2021 18:53:42 GMT Zyobot said:

Some are largely symbolic and respectful of the status quo regardless of outcome, others decisive signs of a gravitic shift in the paradigm. But none have explicitly defied the laws of nature by pitting candidates operating in much different times and circumstances against one another to see how they stack up. At least, not until now.

So, what are some of the most interesting ASB elections you can come up with, whether they invoke time travel or otherwise-ineligible candidates throwing their hat into the race? If we could see some electoral maps to go along with the suggestions people propose, that'd be great. Perhaps even a summary of how the election itself might go, for those feeling ambitiously descriptive.

Myself, I've proposed more than a few cross-time US presidential elections, including but not limited to:

• Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012)
• Alf Landon (1936) Vs. Walter Mondale (1984)
  
• Barack Obama (2012) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
• Barry Goldwater (1964) Vs. George McGovern (1972)
  
• Bill Clinton (1996) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)
  
• Dwight Eisenhower (1956) Vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1936)
  

• George H.W. Bush (1988) Vs. Harry Truman (1948)
• George W. Bush (2000) Vs. John F. Kennedy (1960)
• Jeb Bush (2016) Vs. Michael Dukakis (1988)
  
• Lyndon B. Johnson (1964) Vs. Richard Nixon (1972)
• Theodore Roosevelt (1904) Vs. William James Bryan (1896)

We can certainly discuss scenarios other than the ones listed upstream, of course.

Thank you in advance,

Zyobot

Question, what year do the election take place, is it in present time, the year that is closet to ours.

The time and "composition" of the electorate can vary, though if you want to pick 2020 as the election year and have the candidates go at it, that's your prerogative.

Mostly, I was thinking we'd take a handful of states from Candidate A's time, send them to Candidate B's time, and see how the upcoming election turns out. For example, in my original '1984 Ronald Reagan Vs. 1996 Bill Clinton' thread, I sent the Blue States from 1996 back to 1984, which meant a mix of uptimer and downtimer voters who both candidates would need to appeal to. Otherwise, we can certainly discuss alternative preconditions or even multiple scenarios involving the same candidates, such as only sending 1984 Reagan forward in time or something of the sort. It's up to you!

[lordroel]

Jul 10, 2021 19:23:31 GMT Zyobot said:

Jul 10, 2021 19:15:52 GMT lordroel said:

Question, what year do the election take place, is it in present time, the year that is closet to ours.

The time and "composition" of the electorate can vary, though if you want to pick 2020 as the election year and have the candidates go at it, that's your prerogative.

Well i think the candiate who is closer to ours will have more advantage in using the media then those older candidates, ore am i wrong.

[Zyobot]

Jul 10, 2021 19:24:43 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 10, 2021 19:23:31 GMT Zyobot said:

The time and "composition" of the electorate can vary, though if you want to pick 2020 as the election year and have the candidates go at it, that's your prerogative.

Well i think the candiate who is closer to ours will have more advantage in using the media then those older candidates, ore am i wrong.

I think it'd vary on a case-by-case scenario, but on average, you're probably right. For instance, assuming they're running in 2020 (or thereabouts), Romney 2012 would have a massive head start compared to Stevenson 1952. Even leaving aside the latter's ignorance on the issues, the fact that he was old-fashioned even for his time would backfire considerably, should he refuse to adapt to the modern media landscape. Refusing to air televised advertisements, participate in televised debates, and/or use social media are very likely to sink his campaign, in this day and age.

Even for those who are more adaptable, I imagine they'd need to hire a team of uptimer experts to inform them on current issues and how to integrate modern media into their campaigns. For instance, I'd very interested in seeing what Reagan 1984's YouTube channel would look like. Or even Dukakis 1988's, though he still has substantially less "star power" than Gipper did.

[lordroel]

Jul 10, 2021 19:36:04 GMT Zyobot said:

Jul 10, 2021 19:24:43 GMT lordroel said:

Well i think the candiate who is closer to ours will have more advantage in using the media then those older candidates, ore am i wrong.

I think it'd vary on a case-by-case scenario, but on average, you're probably right. For instance, assuming they're running in 2020 (or thereabouts), Romney 2012 would have a massive head start compared to Stevenson 1952. Even leaving aside the latter's ignorance on the issues, the fact that he was old-fashioned even for his time would backfire considerably, should he refuse to adapt to the modern media landscape. Refusing to air televised advertisements, participate in televised debates, and/or use social media are very likely to sink his campaign, in this day and age.

Even for those who are more adaptable, I imagine they'd need to hire a team of uptimer experts to inform them on current issues and how to integrate modern media into their campaigns. For instance, I'd very interested in seeing what Reagan 1984's YouTube channel would look like. Or even Dukakis 1988's, though he still has substantially less "star power" than Gipper did.

We could always pick a neutral year, lets say middle of both candidates, example would be.

Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012), there is a 60 year gap between them, so we pick 30 years which would result in the year the election takes place would be 1980.

[Zyobot]

Jul 10, 2021 19:53:12 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 10, 2021 19:36:04 GMT Zyobot said:

I think it'd vary on a case-by-case scenario, but on average, you're probably right. For instance, assuming they're running in 2020 (or thereabouts), Romney 2012 would have a massive head start compared to Stevenson 1952. Even leaving aside the latter's ignorance on the issues, the fact that he was old-fashioned even for his time would backfire considerably, should he refuse to adapt to the modern media landscape. Refusing to air televised advertisements, participate in televised debates, and/or use social media are very likely to sink his campaign, in this day and age.

Even for those who are more adaptable, I imagine they'd need to hire a team of uptimer experts to inform them on current issues and how to integrate modern media into their campaigns. For instance, I'd very interested in seeing what Reagan 1984's YouTube channel would look like. Or even Dukakis 1988's, though he still has substantially less "star power" than Gipper did.

We could always pick a neutral year, lets say middle of both candidates, example would be.

Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012), there is a 60 year gap between them, so we pick 30 years which would result in the year the election takes place would be 1980.

I don’t think that’s a very neutral year, considering how unpopular Carter is and how voters tend to associate the incumbent party with incompetence in those situations. Stevenson being a Democrat, I think it’d be a tough to market himself to an electorate that overwhelmingly said “Yes!” to Reagan IOTL. Well, barring Romney royally torpedoing his own campaign, anyway.

However, that doesn’t strike me as likely, since Romney can probably recycle much of his economic rhetoric from 2012 and use it to greater affect than he could against Obama. Granted, there’s still a big charisma gap between him and Reagan, but against a major electoral loser associated with a party having a bad year, I think he’d carry it.

[lordroel]

Jul 10, 2021 20:13:24 GMT Zyobot said:

Jul 10, 2021 19:53:12 GMT lordroel said:

We could always pick a neutral year, lets say middle of both candidates, example would be.

Adlai Stevenson (1952) Vs. Mitt Romney (2012), there is a 60 year gap between them, so we pick 30 years which would result in the year the election takes place would be 1980.

I don’t think that’s a very neutral year, considering how unpopular Carter is and how voters tend to associate the incumbent party with incompetence in those situations. Stevenson being a Democrat, I think it’d be a tough to market himself to an electorate that overwhelmingly said “Yes!” to Reagan IOTL. Well, barring Romney royally torpedoing his own campaign, anyway.

However, that doesn’t strike me as likely, since Romney can probably recycle much of his economic rhetoric from 2012 and use it to greater affect than he could against Obama. Granted, there’s still a big charisma gap between him and Reagan, but against a major electoral loser associated with a party having a bad year, I think he’d carry it.

I think we also must look who is more popular, example.

Dwight Eisenhower (1956) Vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1936)

Franklin Roosevelt was 4 time president and is more popular i think than Dwight Eisenhower, but then again, Dwight Eisenhower if he uses it, Eisenhower is more healthy then Roosevelt.

[Zyobot]

Jul 10, 2021 20:17:14 GMT lordroel said:

Jul 10, 2021 20:13:24 GMT Zyobot said:

I don’t think that’s a very neutral year, considering how unpopular Carter is and how voters tend to associate the incumbent party with incompetence in those situations. Stevenson being a Democrat, I think it’d be a tough to market himself to an electorate that overwhelmingly said “Yes!” to Reagan IOTL. Well, barring Romney royally torpedoing his own campaign, anyway.

However, that doesn’t strike me as likely, since Romney can probably recycle much of his economic rhetoric from 2012 and use it to greater affect than he could against Obama. Granted, there’s still a big charisma gap between him and Reagan, but against a major electoral loser associated with a party having a bad year, I think he’d carry it.

I think we also must look who is more popular, example.

Dwight Eisenhower (1956) Vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1936)

Franklin Roosevelt was 4 time president and is more popular i think than Dwight Eisenhower, but then again, Dwight Eisenhower if he uses it, Eisenhower is more healthy then Roosevelt.

I’d say that the popularity differential stems from their OTL records and how we look back at them. It may affect things at the start of the race, but considering how they’d have to directly compete as the months go by, we’ll see how well they campaign against each other.

For example, what if Roosevelt has a significant gaffe that sinks his poll numbers, such as using the term “Oriental” to describe Asians? Ike could also suffer from miscues of his own, of course, but the kind of racism that FDR displayed would drag his in-party popularity down on the campaign trail. We may overlook that sort of thing now, but that‘s because he’s no longer able to make mistakes in front of a modern electorate. Here, both candidates have plenty of opportunity for that.

[Zyobot]

So, any thoughts on my 'Bill Clinton (1996) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)' match-up? As said up-thread, my parameters are that the 1996 Democratic states are sent back to 1984, with Clinton and his staff coming along for the ride.

While it's debatable who'll win in November, I think Clinton would do a much better job than Mondale '84 or Carter '80, considering how the former lost forty-nine states to Reagan IOTL. Here, the election will be much closer, though I can see avenues of attack that Clinton could exploit, such as Reagan's age and the Iran-Contra scandal. Conversely, I also think Clinton would have to invest a bit more in bringing downtimer Democrats into his camp, especially during the primaries (though his charisma and "incumbency" may very well be enough to beat out Mondale, whether he clinches the nomination or not).

[stevep]

Jul 11, 2021 20:48:38 GMT Zyobot said:

So, any thoughts on my 'Bill Clinton (1996) Vs. Ronald Reagan (1984)' match-up? As said up-thread, my parameters are that the 1996 Democratic states are sent back to 1984, with Clinton and his staff coming along for the ride.

While it's debatable who'll win in November, I think Clinton would do a much better job than Mondale '84 or Carter '80, considering how the former lost forty-nine states to Reagan IOTL. Here, the election will be much closer, though I can see avenues of attack that Clinton could exploit, such as Reagan's age and the Iran-Contra scandal. Conversely, I also think Clinton would have to invest a bit more in bringing downtimer Democrats into his camp, especially during the primaries (though his charisma and "incumbency" may very well be enough to beat out Mondale, whether he clinches the nomination or not).

  Well one interesting factor will be that according to the map of the 1996_United_States_presidential_election for that year Clinton will have states like California which also presumably might have a few more electoral votes because of the population growth over the period.  Reagan would, in terms of 1984 states be limited to the bulk of the old south and the great plains and also Indiana, Texas, with 34 votes in 1996 being the only state with more than 14 seats from his own time.  True some of the up-timers will be voting for him but how many states might they swing.  Clinton one 379 seats so to get a 270-270 tie Reagan needs to move 109 seats worth of states.

  Clinton can hit Reagan on his age and disclosure of his illegal activity in the arms for Iran deal while Reagan and the Republicans will probably make a play on winning the cold war as they would know of the fall of the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain - although what impact news of those events will have across the world will be interesting to put it mildly.

[american2006]

I'll post a few hypotheticals

FDR vs Churchill
Hitler vs Stalin
Nixon (post-watergate) vs. Jimmy Carter (post-presidency)
And last but not least,

Captain America vs. Iron Man

[Zyobot]

Aug 19, 2021 2:06:25 GMT american2006 said:

I'll post a few hypotheticals

FDR vs Churchill
Hitler vs Stalin
Nixon (post-watergate) vs. Jimmy Carter (post-presidency)
And last but not least,

Captain America vs. Iron Man

All very interesting match-ups, but with regard to your last one, is that Iron Man from before or after Avengers: Endgame? If after, I assume ASB has done the needed hand-waving, and lean towards him prevailing in the general after a hard-fought race with Cap (though that's just initial spitballing on my part).

[stevep]

Aug 19, 2021 2:06:25 GMT american2006 said:

I'll post a few hypotheticals

FDR vs Churchill
Hitler vs Stalin
Nixon (post-watergate) vs. Jimmy Carter (post-presidency)
And last but not least,

Captain America vs. Iron Man

  Well baring anything dramatic

a) FDR wins as he has a much larger support base.

b) Would depend on the circumstances but post 1941 I would expect Stalin to win.  Its clear to most Russians and other Slavs especially that Hitler is not someone they want ruling them, even less than Stalin so again the majority would win.

c)  Might depend on the date and the constituency.  Nixon is the more skilled leader and Carter the more honest. 

d)  This prompted the LOL.  I prefer Cap as a person but who would win is difficult to say.

[american2006]

Aug 19, 2021 2:39:53 GMT Zyobot said:

Aug 19, 2021 2:06:25 GMT american2006 said:

I'll post a few hypotheticals

FDR vs Churchill
Hitler vs Stalin
Nixon (post-watergate) vs. Jimmy Carter (post-presidency)
And last but not least,

Captain America vs. Iron Man

All very interesting match-ups, but with regard to your last one, is that Iron Man from before or after Avengers: Endgame? If after, I assume ASB has done the needed hand-waving, and lean towards him prevailing in the general after a hard-fought race with Cap (though that's just initial spitballing on my part).

Botha's characters around the time period of Civil War, else's iron man wins easily. I actually see Cap winning likely on a Republican ticket given what little has been revealed about his and iron mans politics.