Lightning in the Night timeline (USS Virginia)

[lordroel]

So as you know , there is one TL that is close to my hart and that is the Lightning in the Night timeline, in the book there is mentioned of a Virginia-class battleship called the USS Virginia, mention in the book to be of 40,000 ton and completed between 1944 and 1945.

So how would this design be as she is somewhat lighter than a Iowa-class.

[1bigrich]

She seems a bit odd, the USN in your previous thread having gone (as historically) from the nominal-35,000 ton South Dakota class to the 45,000 ton Iowa class.

Perhaps Virginia was a contract, a special design for an ally (Canada? Australia? South Africa? India? the Netherlands?) or other power (one of the South American nations?) Maybe the 40,000 ton limit was due to the 'other' nation's docking limits and/or budget considerations, similar to the Royal Navy's own limitation of their Lion class battleships? The ship is laid down, with the fall of the UK and separation of the Commonwealth from the Mother Country, the ship is taken over by the USN?

Given the USN technology of the time, what could we buy for 5,000 tons on existing battleship designs? Perhaps a slightly longer, better protected North Carolina or South Dakota (probably the former, with her external belt). A little more length would mean more buoyancy and more speed, say 27.5 knots, 27 sustained 6 months out of dock. Say similar armament, 9 x 16in/45cal in three three-gun turrets, 20 x 5in/38cal in ten twin turrets, a number of quad 40mm Bofors and single and twin 20mm Oerlikon cannons for AA work. Appearance is probably close to North Carolina and Washington, perhaps with a different funnel arrangement.

My initial thoughts,

[lordroel]

Sept 12, 2021 19:18:04 GMT 1bigrich said:

She seems a bit odd, the USN in your previous thread having gone (as historically) from the nominal-35,000 ton South Dakota class to the 45,000 ton Iowa class.

Well i was thinking, either the author of the novel did not knew the precise tonnage of the Iowa and thus had to make up the tonnage of the Virginia ore the Virginia was design to be a fast battleship and command vessel as in the novel it was the flagship of the commander of the United States Pacific Fleet.

[belushitd]

I have not read that TL, so I don't know the details, but the possibility exists that the author was not intimately familiar with how displacement was calculated at the time for the various levels of displacement, light, standard, fully loaded and so forth. Google shows me the following

Standard - 45,000
Mean War Service - 52,000
Full Load - 56,500

Add this to the possibility that the author could have been using 40,000 tons as a round off number for anything between 35K and 45K, or possibly a truncated number for anything between 40K and 49,999 tons, and we've got some wiggle room.

A 40K ton Virginia Class BB could be as simple as a repeat Iowa using the rounding, a truncated Iowa/expanded SoDak as previously stated, a modified Iowa (with either rounding or truncating) or any number of other things. Remember the hazards of looking too deeply into the details behind an entertaining story. Its always possible that the numbers just don't match up, but that shouldn't take away from the enjoyment of a good TL.

Belushi TD

Belushi TD

[lordroel]

Sept 14, 2021 13:55:25 GMT belushitd said:

I have not read that TL, so I don't know the details, but the possibility exists that the author was not intimately familiar with how displacement was calculated at the time for the various levels of displacement, light, standard, fully loaded and so forth. Google shows me the following

Belushi TD

Digging up my book (the English version of course but i also got it in Dutch with the nice name of Boms on New York) i can see that the Fred Adllhoff (the Author) with the advice and counsel of Lieutenant General Robert Lee Bullard and and Rear Admiral Yates Sterling made the book, now in the book the only mention of the Virgainia goes like this:

And then he made out the outlines of the Navy s new pride and joy, the 40,000 ton Virginia. the Old Man be aboard the Virginia, He had chosen here as his flagship, She had a special fighting top build for his use.

[1bigrich]

Sept 14, 2021 14:15:49 GMT lordroel said:

Digging up my book (the English version of course but i also got it in Dutch with the nice name of Boms on New York) i can see that the Fred Adllhoff (the Author) with the advice and counsel of Lieutenant General Robert Lee Bullard and and Rear Admiral Yates Sterling made the book, now in the book the only mention of the Virgainia goes like this:

And then he made out the outlines of the Navy s new pride and joy, the 40,000 ton Virginia. the Old Man be aboard the Virginia, He had chosen here as his flagship, She had a special fighting top build for his use.

That makes sense.   They would have known the existing Pennsylvania had a two-story armored conning tower

For the CinCUS Fleet's use, while Arizona

did not (just about the only way to tell them apart before World War 2).  So special accommodation for the Fleet Commander and his staff would be something they were familiar with.

Regards,

[lordroel]

Sept 19, 2021 18:39:55 GMT 1bigrich said:

Sept 14, 2021 14:15:49 GMT lordroel said:

Digging up my book (the English version of course but i also got it in Dutch with the nice name of Boms on New York) i can see that the Fred Adllhoff (the Author) with the advice and counsel of Lieutenant General Robert Lee Bullard and and Rear Admiral Yates Sterling made the book, now in the book the only mention of the Virgainia goes like this:

And then he made out the outlines of the Navy s new pride and joy, the 40,000 ton Virginia. the Old Man be aboard the Virginia, He had chosen here as his flagship, She had a special fighting top build for his use.

That makes sense.   They would have known the existing Pennsylvania had a two-story armored conning tower

For the CinCUS Fleet's use, while Arizona

did not (just about the only way to tell them apart before World War 2).  So special accommodation for the Fleet Commander and his staff would be something they were familiar with.

Regards,

So in 1940, would the design of the Iowa-class be public, doubt the United States Navy give to much information on what they where building.