PC: A Portuguese North American or North Caribbean Empire?

[TheRomanSlayer]

IOTL, Portugal only managed to colonize the lands that would transform into Brazil, while they were exploring and colonizing the rest of Africa and Asia, leaving the business of colonizing the Americas to Castile (which eventually turned into Spain with the union of Castile and Aragon). 

Was it possible for Portugal to either build its North American empire in a similar territorial shape to how early New France had built their colony? Alternatively, could Portugal had opted instead to build its own Caribbean Empire in a similar territorial shape to the OTL proposed empire that the Knights of the Golden Circle had claimed?

How would a presence of a Portuguese North America have an effect on later colonization of said continent, and South America as well? Would there still be a drive for Portugal and Spain to reach the eastern edges of Asia, even with a different starting location for their colonial build up?

[simon darkshade]

The primary issue is the Treaty of Tordesillas.

Portugal went for Asia and India because that is where the money was. Africa came as an extra to that big package.

Even in a different situation, Portugal didn’t have the money or power to “do a Spain or France”.

[stevep]

Oct 26, 2021 6:52:05 GMT simon darkshade said:

The primary issue is the Treaty of Tordesillas.

Portugal went for Asia and India because that is where the money was. Africa came as an extra to that big package.

Even in a different situation, Portugal didn’t have the money or power to “do a Spain or France”.

  Very true although the treaty is probably a result rather than a cause of the OTL division.  Portugal was interested in the eastern spice trade because that was where the money was and Brazil was for them an accidental and fairly secondary discovery.

  Ditto once the merger of Castile and Aragon occurred Portugal was too small to make a lasting great power.  Possibly if Portugal and Castile had merged - and I think there was nearly an alternative marriage to OTL Ferdinand and Isabella which would have done this then the combined state could have produced a massive colonial power.  Whether that would have been a 'Portuguese' state would be another issue.  However you might have ended up with it concentrating on both the eastern trade and a continued Reconquesta into western N Africa and the discovery of the Americas being delayed.  Possibly until the secret of the Grand Banks - as there's suggestions they had been known about for some time but the fishermen didn't want competition - or this Portugal discovering Brazil by accident as OTL.

[TheRomanSlayer]

An accidental discovery of an area of North America by Portugal would have been possible, but yes, the Treaty of Torsedillas might make it difficult. However, two possible scenarios could occur that may change everything:

1) A merger between Castile and Portugal: not sure as to who would be the bride or groom in this case.

2) Unification of Castile, Portugal, and Aragon: having these three kingdoms would have rendered the Treaty of Torsedillas moot, but then again, there would still be divergent interests.

In hindsight, I should have changed the title of the thread, since a Portuguese North American colony might be impossible with the terms of the Treaty of Torsedillas.

[archangel]

A way to circumvent the common problems of a Portuguese North American colony is to have Castile/Spain or another European competitor getting ahead in South America and somewhat in Africa. That way, at keast some of the energies used in Brazil and in the route to India would be used for North America, this time likely with families instead of single men. This would also mean a relative growth of population in the colonies, with less risk of tropical illnesses for whom there was no treatment back then.

[TheRomanSlayer]

Nov 19, 2021 16:35:35 GMT archangel said:

A way to circumvent the common problems of a Portuguese North American colony is to have Castile/Spain or another European competitor getting ahead in South America and somewhat in Africa. That way, at keast some of the energies used in Brazil and in the route to India would be used for North America, this time likely with families instead of single men. This would also mean a relative growth of population in the colonies, with less risk of tropical illnesses for whom there was no treatment back then.

The only thing is that did Castile had any interests in Africa at that time? Although France or England would be a suitable replacement to get ahead in South America, there was the Treaty of Torsedillas to consider as well. Perhaps had Castile focused its energies on North Africa more than the New World (say, a bigger Reconquista meant less funds for Christopher Columbus's voyage), then I think Castile would be more eager to colonize parts of Africa that would serve as relief stations. A Castilian (later Spanish) Cape Verde would not be out of the question in this case.