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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 24, 2022 20:10:24 GMT
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 25, 2022 11:58:12 GMT
Assuming they realise what's happened in time and accept it's not just a nightmare or delusion then Germany will have a hell of a lot of problems. Denmark will almost certainly fight and Norway can use historical knowledge and modern technology to catch the German forces at sea and also possibly guide the RN onto them as well, although it could take a while for the down-time allies to accept what's happened. I'm not sure what coastal defences say Oslo has now - probably not the batteries that sunk Blutcher OTL but if some missile defences then things could still get nasty, even for the more heavily armed German ships. The air force in both countries will be a lot more powerful if they can act in time and their airfields could be in different locations so might be some problems for the LW in locating and suppressing them.
I think under the circumstances Sweden will join the fight as well, as it will find the Nazis too abhorrent not to. A Swedish dow also immediately means an end to ore supplies to Germany. - Was going to mention them looking over their shoulder at Finland and the Winter war but forgot we're got a later date for the ISOT so its already over.
It would depend on how Germany reacts to the sudden failure of its northern push but if they still try their OTL drive through Belgium their likely to be stopped with heavy losses as the allies will have details of their plans. Plus possibly some Scandinavia air power to supply reconnaissance and possibly even attacks on those long columns of German vehicles queuing up to enter the Ardennes.
How things go from here is difficult to say. The combined allies should defeat Germany but unless there's a quick military coup against Hitler - which then raises the question of German surrender terms - its probably going to take 1-2 years before that's done. Which would however be a lot less devastation for most of Europe and also leaves much of eastern and central Europe free from Soviet control. At least unless Stalin decides to 'join the allies' by backstabbing his ally at some point, which would raise some important questions.
Italy is likely to stay nervously neutral here and there might not be the willing to depose Mussolini, or Franco for that matter. Not sure what will happen in the Far East but any Japanese drive south, even if only against the allied powers and gambling on the US staying neutral if not attack would be a lot more difficult for them. What happens in China if Japan doesn't widen the war I don't know but would expect that with growing aid from the western powers the Chinese will outlast the Japanese and force them to withdraw at some point. After that what happened between the KMT and the communists is difficult to tell.
Of course there are going to be a lot of issues between the up-timers and their new allies on many social and political issues, in terms of human rights, colonialism etc and a lot both sides will find repellent about the other but the common bonds from the war will hopefully moderate that somewhat, as will uptimer British,French etc that can hopefully provide a bridge between the two, as well as the wider down-time world.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 25, 2022 12:27:57 GMT
The real deal are the Finns.
What happens to Finland? USSR is not at war with Germany in April 1940 yet I cannot see them not joining the fight once they seeWehrmacht being whooped.
Which means the WAllies may pressure Scandinavia to ddclare war on the USSR. Who wants a big red blob in Europe?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 26, 2022 17:34:08 GMT
The real deal are the Finns. What happens to Finland? USSR is not at war with Germany in April 1940 yet I cannot see them not joining the fight once they seeWehrmacht being whooped. Which means the WAllies may pressure Scandinavia to ddclare war on the USSR. Who wants a big red blob in Europe?
Not so sure on that. Stalin won't be happy with the Nazis being crushed so quickly - although I suspect it would take at least a year - rather than a long bloody war wearing both rival blocs down. However he was notoriously cautious so I suspect he wouldn't enter the conflict at all, just taking what gains he had made in the Baltic's and eastern Poland. Especially since he wouldn't want to risk a clash with the new 'allies' of the west.
Similarly, if he was just attacking the Nazis, rather than a new war with the Soviets, especially since even with the recent aid from the uptimers it would be a huge task. A lot would depend on what Stalin wanted, as well as the possibility that a Soviet attack, with their limited capacity at this point would prompt a quick German surrender to the western powers so the Soviets might not gain a lot.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Feb 8, 2022 19:10:38 GMT
Denmark and Norway are NATO member states and both know what is going to happen so will work together. Sweden as a NATO Partnership for Peace member may well act in cooperation which will also solve part of Denmarks initial power supply which comes from Sweden - much less these days as when wind blows that account for almost 50% of Denmarks electricity used.
Finland have to guard its eastern borders which are fenced in anyway but still have Cold War stores around so will be the best prepared in the short run.
Having Norway and Sweden backing up will suffice for the lack of Danish combat aircraft but the German Subs will face a difficult time; a major asset once it comes to talk Britain into some kind of alliance/cooperation against the shared enemy.
Theres also a few flying late Spitfires and early Jets of British/French make around in Scandinavia so a gift or two may be possible.
With digital comms the Germans will know nothing of whats going on in Scandinavia and with drones and computers but lacking GPS something seriously upsetting Weserübung should happen.
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