Choices: Simon Goes A-Timelining/ISOTing

[simon darkshade]

After the better part of 15 years commenting on various timelines and ISOTs here, on AH.com and on other forums, as well as 5 concurrent years playing some occasionally entertaining forum-based nation RPGs, I think I might dip my finally dip my toe into this genre.

I've an enormous amount of resources, research and information that can be used from all that, as well as hopefully a bit of knowledge.

The big question is the exact parameters:

Option 1: The Classic Mid 1930s "Let's Get Britain Prepared for WW2". This one involves a start date of 1935 or so and sees no major political or international butterflies until after the putative Second World War, which likely turns out to be a bit of a damp squib

Option 2: Interwar Dabblings "Lets Fiddle Around with Economics, Politics and Industry in the 1920s". This one has a start date in 1919 or so and involves a mixture of military tweaks and gradual economic changes resulting in some big butterflies from the mid 1930s
Option 3: Keeping the Band Together "Lets Take This Baby Out and See How Fast She Can Go". Here, we start in 1900 or thereabouts, with a view towards a late run at some degree of Imperial integration, fighting some sort of Great War that is at that point reasonably inevitable and really giving top spot a run for its money

Why is this in ASB? I could write a straight timeline after working out an appropriate PoD, but the nitpickiness of that other site in this respect turns me off a bit, particularly when change really starts to get going. An ISOT should turn into a cakewalk fairly quickly, though, which although fun, lacks a little something for me. So, like Tommy Wiseau and his inexplicable decision to film 'The Room' in HD and 35mm, why not do both?

This type of a side project - and it would be a side project secondary to my own Dark Earth works, which I'm thinking of trying to get published at some point when they are dashed well finished - would be a way to branch out whilst using all of the stuff I've gathered over 20 years of historical hoarding.

So, we have the poll question at the top for people's consideration; and the next part of whether anyone was interested in throwing in a few ideas as well during the initial cooking phase.

[stevep]

Jan 24, 2022 21:11:34 GMT simon darkshade said:

After the better part of 15 years commenting on various timelines and ISOTs here, on AH.com and on other forums, as well as 5 concurrent years playing some occasionally entertaining forum-based nation RPGs, I think I might dip my finally dip my toe into this genre.

I've an enormous amount of resources, research and information that can be used from all that, as well as hopefully a bit of knowledge.

The big question is the exact parameters:

Option 1: The Classic Mid 1930s "Let's Get Britain Prepared for WW2". This one involves a start date of 1935 or so and sees no major political or international butterflies until after the putative Second World War, which likely turns out to be a bit of a damp squib

Option 2: Interwar Dabblings "Lets Fiddle Around with Economics, Politics and Industry in the 1920s". This one has a start date in 1919 or so and involves a mixture of military tweaks and gradual economic changes resulting in some big butterflies from the mid 1930s
Option 3: Keeping the Band Together "Lets Take This Baby Out and See How Fast She Can Go". Here, we start in 1900 or thereabouts, with a view towards a late run at some degree of Imperial integration, fighting some sort of Great War that is at that point reasonably inevitable and really giving top spot a run for its money

Why is this in ASB? I could write a straight timeline after working out an appropriate PoD, but the nitpickiness of that other site in this respect turns me off a bit, particularly when change really starts to get going. An ISOT should turn into a cakewalk fairly quickly, though, which although fun, lacks a little something for me. So, like Tommy Wiseau and his inexplicable decision to film 'The Room' in HD and 35mm, why not do both?

This type of a side project - and it would be a side project secondary to my own Dark Earth works, which I'm thinking of trying to get published at some point when they are dashed well finished - would be a way to branch out whilst using all of the stuff I've gathered over 20 years of historical hoarding.

So, we have the poll question at the top for people's consideration; and the next part of whether anyone was interested in throwing in a few ideas as well during the initial cooking phase.

  simon darkshade ,

   Your got a 4th option in the poll but I can't see a description of it?

  Of the other three 1 as you say has been done before but the other two sound interesting.  Is it just a single person or small group being ISOTed or a larger body up to an entire country?  Assuming the former but asking to clarify.  In that case a lot would depend on what they know and what resources they have to get things changed. 

  With option 2 that would be chiefly a political and economic change, which would definitely be different as those areas are rarely touched upon.  With no doubt knock on effects in terms of industrial power and international events.

  Option 3 I would suggest that WWI wasn't totally avoidable but does seem likely and by ~1900 things are pretty much set up for the OTL alliances to develop, only really with Britain to be moved into place and German actions are likely to do that.  However a lasting Britain regaining and maintaining No. 1 slot would really need both the Russians and the US being seriously reduced if your talking about both military and economic power.  Doable but would be tough I think.

  Steve

[simon darkshade]

The fourth option is a hat tip to an old forum joke of having a joke option for polls. Little was I to know that even a historical and non-fantastical question would attract no votes and only one comment from my regular commenter. If that is the rub, then it looks like there is less initial interest and buy in here than I had hoped. A shame, as it will be a very fun process and I have a lot of ideas.



Option 1 would typically be a person. Anything larger makes is a real curbstomp.

On 1900:

With a 1900 start date, a recognisable Bolshevik Revolution can be strangled in the cradle, which is enticing enough. Russia may be large, but it is very backward and will cop the brunt of any war. It is also vulnerable to being split up if hamstrung.

The USA has an economic edge at this point, but is way, way back in military terms. 5 capital ships and another 5 under construction, all with Harvey armour rather than Krupp, followed by 3 other improved ones. They are behind Russia (16),France (14), Italy (10), but equal with Germany (5) and ahead of Japan (3). They are girding their loins, but can be bound with chains of gold given the implicit advantage available to Britain. Their army is nothing to write home about at this point.


Based upon a 1900 start:

- I’m envisaging sending back a historian/generalist, with a twist. They would eventually try to extend their influence to that of an eminence grise, but with mixed success.
- The other option is the classic “take over someone’s body”, but that is harder to implement unless you get the right target. Edward VII would maybe work, but has a limited available lifespan. Disadvantage is that you only take what is in your head. Not preferred.
- What electrical plugs were in use in Britain? The first significant hurdle is to be able to have access to a laptop with a lot of goodies (scanned books and articles)
- Some of the aims: Retain Ireland, Anglicise South Africa, expand and permanently cede HK New Territories, modernise economy in stages, prepare for a short European war that restore a balance of power without destroying whole empires, Institute tariff reform and Imperial Preference and more…
- The RN has 20 battleships under construction or order, so it isn’t worth wasting them. They will be followed by a transitional KEVII class and then an earlier and better X4 variant of Dreadnought (25 knots, 12 x 12”/50 with super firing turrets, 13” on the belt and a secondary battery of ~5” guns), along with an improved Invincible. Then the process of building 4 incrementally better battleships a year will continue whilst the next leap is prepared.
- Rather than 13.5”, the first generation superdreadnoughts will have 15” guns and increased speed. In armoured cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers and submarines, there will also be distinct overmatching of any foreign vessel.
- The first aircraft flight will be British and certain types of aeroplane will be developed
- The Army won’t be neglected or cut down, but will get better rifles, more machine guns, LMGs, mortars, a whole range of improved modern artillery including proto 25pdr field guns and HE shells and armoured cars. Tanks will be developed, along with superheavy howitzers
- In world politics, a fair few interesting moves will be recommended…

[belushitd]

I am sorely tempted to vote for Steering Wheel, because I'm different like that.

However, I decided to vote for 1900, because I love me some pre 1914 butterflies. Getting Britain ready for WWII has been done frequently and to death. While I am certain that you would be more than able to put your own stamp on it, and it would be decidedly enjoyable, I'd rather you put your spare time towards the 1900 version. As far as the 1919 version, I'd also be interested in seeing that one, but not nearly as much as the 1900 version.

Best of luck with it and looking forward to both this, and throwing money at you when Dark Earth starts getting published.

Belushi TD

*EDIT* I've not been online much lately due to work and family. Amazing how real life can keep you from doing stuff you want to do!

[simon darkshade]

Thank you kindly. I feel 1900 or thereabouts has the most “open” development potential, compared to ‘yet another Foresight War’, and isn’t quite limited by the scars of an @ WW1 in the same way as 1919.

1900 allows a combination between national development and imperialism, so I’ve started going through my old research on it. The most difficult part from a writing perspective is the initial arrival and getting attention; from there, it is a bit of a matter of yearly updates and butterfly massacring.

Quite alright with being busy; I hope to have the same problem soon.

[stevep]

Jan 25, 2022 15:59:11 GMT simon darkshade said:

The fourth option is a hat tip to an old forum joke of having a joke option for polls. Little was I to know that even a historical and non-fantastical question would attract no votes and only one comment from my regular commenter. If that is the rub, then it looks like there is less initial interest and buy in here than I had hoped. A shame, as it will be a very fun process and I have a lot of ideas.



Option 1 would typically be a person. Anything larger makes is a real curbstomp.

On 1900:

With a 1900 start date, a recognisable Bolshevik Revolution can be strangled in the cradle, which is enticing enough. Russia may be large, but it is very backward and will cop the brunt of any war. It is also vulnerable to being split up if hamstrung.

The USA has an economic edge at this point, but is way, way back in military terms. 5 capital ships and another 5 under construction, all with Harvey armour rather than Krupp, followed by 3 other improved ones. They are behind Russia (16),France (14), Italy (10), but equal with Germany (5) and ahead of Japan (3). They are girding their loins, but can be bound with chains of gold given the implicit advantage available to Britain. Their army is nothing to write home about at this point.


Based upon a 1900 start:

- I’m envisaging sending back a historian/generalist, with a twist. They would eventually try to extend their influence to that of an eminence grise, but with mixed success.
- The other option is the classic “take over someone’s body”, but that is harder to implement unless you get the right target. Edward VII would maybe work, but has a limited available lifespan. Disadvantage is that you only take what is in your head. Not preferred.
- What electrical plugs were in use in Britain? The first significant hurdle is to be able to have access to a laptop with a lot of goodies (scanned books and articles)
- Some of the aims: Retain Ireland, Anglicise South Africa, expand and permanently cede HK New Territories, modernise economy in stages, prepare for a short European war that restore a balance of power without destroying whole empires, Institute tariff reform and Imperial Preference and more…
- The RN has 20 battleships under construction or order, so it isn’t worth wasting them. They will be followed by a transitional KEVII class and then an earlier and better X4 variant of Dreadnought (25 knots, 12 x 12”/50 with super firing turrets, 13” on the belt and a secondary battery of ~5” guns), along with an improved Invincible. Then the process of building 4 incrementally better battleships a year will continue whilst the next leap is prepared.
- Rather than 13.5”, the first generation superdreadnoughts will have 15” guns and increased speed. In armoured cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers and submarines, there will also be distinct overmatching of any foreign vessel.
- The first aircraft flight will be British and certain types of aeroplane will be developed
- The Army won’t be neglected or cut down, but will get better rifles, more machine guns, LMGs, mortars, a whole range of improved modern artillery including proto 25pdr field guns and HE shells and armoured cars. Tanks will be developed, along with superheavy howitzers
- In world politics, a fair few interesting moves will be recommended…

  simon darkshade,

  Yes with better management and some luck Britain can stay the primary naval power and very influential for quite a while but if your talking about until say ~2000 it needs something drastic happening to the US to prevent its industrial primacy, already pretty much established by 1900 into military and political domination.  Probably also with Russia which is likely to be significantly more powerful sooner if you avoid the Bolshevik coup and following civil war and then ~70 years of serial abuse.  Especially if WWI is significantly shortened which would further reduce the damage to the Russian empire.

  Even if you managed to get a large measure of imperial federation and barring serious threats to all the dominions I suspect its too late for that a British federation is going to struggle to keep abreast of such powers.

  As such I would be happy with either options 2 or 3.  Sorry I didn't realise about the joke with option 4.

  Steve

[simon darkshade]

Steve

With what I like to term a cheat sheet of history, there seems little point for a state to let their competitors flourish and then overtake them. It is the logical other side to the coin - advance one's own state/empire and at best constrain others. This is easiest done with Russia, which was rather restive even in 1900, and who at that point is still a bona fide strategic rival of the British Empire. Shattering Russia with some sorts of revolution and balkanising it would be an option from some perspectives.

In the case of the United States, there are certain tendencies that can be pushed, but you rightly point out that it would be extremely difficult. I would not go so far as to say it is impossible, though. Without the agency of an @ WW1, the USA doesn't get the opportunity to inject itself into European and world affairs to the same extent. Constrain its relative financial power and this is further exacerbated. Militarily is where it gets interesting.

In some aspects of warfare, once the cat is out of the bag, other nations swiftly copy the frontrunners. This is likely with land equipment, but being behind someone who has 120 years worth of knowledge of the right options does make the pursuit a difficult one. In the air, once this emerges, it will be even more clear cut as copying/reacting to developments there is that bit more difficult. At sea, the USA is way, way back with the field as of 1900 and, with a carefully planned strategy, this can be exacerbated with bursts of construction and the technological jumps of the Dreadnought and Superdreadnought generation of battleships. We are used to the idea of the technological frontrunner eventually stopping, slowing or being overtaken, as that happened historically. Here, as in the words of Lawrence of Arabia, nothing is written. The historical rise of the USN did come when Germany was removed from the equation, Russia ended as a naval power and France shattered by land warfare. American productive capacity is greater than those, but they are a long way back as of 1900.

Historically, the USA rolled its dice very well, in addition to its myriad inbuilt advantages. Here, another player is operating with loaded dice.

[stevep]

Jan 26, 2022 18:32:30 GMT simon darkshade said:

Steve

With what I like to term a cheat sheet of history, there seems little point for a state to let their competitors flourish and then overtake them. It is the logical other side to the coin - advance one's own state/empire and at best constrain others. This is easiest done with Russia, which was rather restive even in 1900, and who at that point is still a bona fide strategic rival of the British Empire. Shattering Russia with some sorts of revolution and balkanising it would be an option from some perspectives.

In the case of the United States, there are certain tendencies that can be pushed, but you rightly point out that it would be extremely difficult. I would not go so far as to say it is impossible, though. Without the agency of an @ WW1, the USA doesn't get the opportunity to inject itself into European and world affairs to the same extent. Constrain its relative financial power and this is further exacerbated. Militarily is where it gets interesting.

In some aspects of warfare, once the cat is out of the bag, other nations swiftly copy the frontrunners. This is likely with land equipment, but being behind someone who has 120 years worth of knowledge of the right options does make the pursuit a difficult one. In the air, once this emerges, it will be even more clear cut as copying/reacting to developments there is that bit more difficult. At sea, the USA is way, way back with the field as of 1900 and, with a carefully planned strategy, this can be exacerbated with bursts of construction and the technological jumps of the Dreadnought and Superdreadnought generation of battleships. We are used to the idea of the technological frontrunner eventually stopping, slowing or being overtaken, as that happened historically. Here, as in the words of Lawrence of Arabia, nothing is written. The historical rise of the USN did come when Germany was removed from the equation, Russia ended as a naval power and France shattered by land warfare. American productive capacity is greater than those, but they are a long way back as of 1900.

Historically, the USA rolled its dice very well, in addition to its myriad inbuilt advantages. Here, another player is operating with loaded dice.

  Will be interesting to see what you come up with.  I can see a path to a military defeat for the US but it would be hugely costly for all powers.  However sounds like your thinking of other ways of restraining American power development.

[simon darkshade]

Yes. Fighting and defeating a Great Power only works when you're able to occupy and puppet them afterwards; otherwise, you're just setting up a return match.

How can American power be restrained? It has its own internal predisposition towards isolationism in some quarters, to start with and it is not immune to political trouble and strife in the circumstances of economic trouble. The aim would be to avoid/ameliorate the worst effects of any potential Great Depression, as from a ~1900 kick-off, it is difficult to predict what will happen 30+ years down the line. I don't think that can be factored in.

Therefore, the best means of constraining what from the British perspective is the baleful rising tide of American power is to cut off its opportunities for expansion. Tie up the Middle East and Africa, play a clever game in South America and back a series of winning horses in China and the Far East (ensuring that they win by cheating like crazy). Keep European politics the business of the European GPs. What is left? Not too much.

The key is not to fight where victory cannot be completely guaranteed.

I'm going to follow up later today with some notes and ideas on naval developments.

[belushitd]

And now I'm back after yet another hiatus.

I don't think its all that difficult to keep the US from becoming the industrial giant (and more importantly, the industrial giant who is also a military giant) it did in @.

1. Keep the US out of WWI. Do it by getting rid of the war, the Germans not going crazy with unrestricted sub warfare, Wilson not elected, stronger isolationism, or any other means. This does little to keep the US from developing its industrial might, but it keeps it from going crazy with naval construction.

2. Have the US back the wrong horse in WWI. Prior to the propaganda war, there was significant support for the Germans due to the large numbers of German immigrants in the US.

3. Depending on how far back you wish to go, there's other things one can do. Have the US fare not nearly as well in the Spanish American war, or butterfly that away to start with. Maybe Yellow Journalism gets wrecked early on or something. Maybe Hearst gets assassinated or there's a much stronger libel law or something like that.

4. Congress is even stingier than in @. No funds for any large ships. Keep the US Navy as a coastal defense force in actuality, rather than in theory.

5. Have Mahan die in the line of duty before he writes his seminal work.

6. Change some of the drivers that caused slavery to be so precious to the south that they went to war over it, or change the attitudes of the north so much that they let the south go without a fight. Maybe assassinate Lincoln 5 or 6 years earlier.

7. Have the US start barring immigration at a much earlier stage. If you don't have hordes of immigrants to fill up the great plains states and grow all the food, there's less people to move to the cities or immigrate and stay in the cities to work in the factories.

7a. Keep the US as a more agrarian society, sort of like the Jefferson ideal.

Belushi TD

[575]

Just got an eye on this - as I've sorta done the option 2 as part of the Window of Oppertunity option 3 seems right. Will be sitting on the fence.

[stevep]

Feb 10, 2022 12:25:18 GMT belushitd said:

And now I'm back after yet another hiatus.

I don't think its all that difficult to keep the US from becoming the industrial giant (and more importantly, the industrial giant who is also a military giant) it did in @.

1. Keep the US out of WWI. Do it by getting rid of the war, the Germans not going crazy with unrestricted sub warfare, Wilson not elected, stronger isolationism, or any other means. This does little to keep the US from developing its industrial might, but it keeps it from going crazy with naval construction.

2. Have the US back the wrong horse in WWI. Prior to the propaganda war, there was significant support for the Germans due to the large numbers of German immigrants in the US.

3. Depending on how far back you wish to go, there's other things one can do. Have the US fare not nearly as well in the Spanish American war, or butterfly that away to start with. Maybe Yellow Journalism gets wrecked early on or something. Maybe Hearst gets assassinated or there's a much stronger libel law or something like that.

4. Congress is even stingier than in @. No funds for any large ships. Keep the US Navy as a coastal defense force in actuality, rather than in theory.

5. Have Mahan die in the line of duty before he writes his seminal work.

6. Change some of the drivers that caused slavery to be so precious to the south that they went to war over it, or change the attitudes of the north so much that they let the south go without a fight. Maybe assassinate Lincoln 5 or 6 years earlier.

7. Have the US start barring immigration at a much earlier stage. If you don't have hordes of immigrants to fill up the great plains states and grow all the food, there's less people to move to the cities or immigrate and stay in the cities to work in the factories.

7a. Keep the US as a more agrarian society, sort of like the Jefferson ideal.

Belushi TD

  Well with a 1900 PoD its already an industrial giant then and difficult to see it not developing further unless something like a different Great depression that prompts civil war or say a military coup [the business plot?] which then leads to either a very repressive dictatorship or continued civil unrest.  However unless the US splinters permanently its still going to emerge as a giant sooner or later.  Plus demographic and industrial power is going to lead to military strength sooner or later, especially as technological advances means that isolationism is no longer a practical option.  Once nukes and intercontinental bombers/ICBMs start to arrive if not before then the US will have to arm up.

  Also option 1 wouldn't work I think.  The US did a lot of sales to the allies which boosted parts of their heavy industry capacity for military items.  Plus they had a fairly steady naval build up prior to WWI with IIRC a couple of BBs ordered most years and in 1916 there was the huge programme planned which would if completed have included 10 powerful BBs and 6 fast and well armed - if probably fragile BCs.  It was supposed to be directed at the German fleet but with the RN and the British alliance with Japan I have my doubts about that.

  If you had a pre-1900 PoD then possibly the best bet would be a ACW where the Trent Affair goes hot, then with some British mistakes early on allowing the union to fight through until it can start to generate suitable supplies of rifles, gunpowder and the like and you get a war until say 1865-66 before the union goes down.  Heavy losses on both sides a large CSA and other land losses could make for a significantly weaker US which is permanent.  Assuming of course it does still get its act together later on.

  Just having the south escape without a fight, while it would be a blow wouldn't be decisive, even if it was a maximum CSA.  Ditto with limiting immigration as if nothing else native growth is likely to fill in the gap, even if a generation or two later.

[simon darkshade]

As World War 2 SIs/ISOTs continue to be done poorly, I'm increasingly moved towards doing it properly.

So, here is the precis:

"Old Mate is a man with a historical generalist education, amateur interests in a few specific areas and some other unspecified characteristics, including dabbling in some stuff beyond his ken. He is not anticipating a journey through time with enough forewarning to allow him to muster more than what he has around his house. The opportunity comes up through some occultic goings on and he goes through a one way door to 1899 England. Fortuitously, he has his laptop and charging device packed in their cases, along with a fully charged phone in his pocket and a packed bag of clothes.

Once in 1899 and having established when and where he is, he intends to make contact with the British Government and use his foreknowledge, capabilities and information to enhance and expand its hegemony.
He has a plan on who to contact in order to get to the right people. In doing so, he has no need to show what he has to anyone who is not necessary, nor interact with locals more than absolutely vital. He will first call upon Arthur Conan Doyle and then use him to get an introduction to Winston Churchill and thence to the right people in the War Office and what passes for British intelligence at this time.

He will aim to position himself behind the scenes to advance the British Empire along the lines and direction he wants under the guise of assisting it. Put simply, he wants to utterly destroy the modern world he came from. Perhaps ‘destroy’ is too simplistic a word again - he wants to prevent it ever coming to pass. This plays into his choice of country and the directions he’ll push them towards. He has several motivations, but among them are highly admirable ones: prevent the bloodshed of the World Wars, Korea and Vietnam, including the horrors of the Holocaust; prevent the rise of apartheid, radical terrorism, climate change, drug wars and other modern miseries; protect many wonders of nature, saving the Aral Sea and Amazon; and preventing all manner of comparatively lower level historical injustices. The pursuit of these, as well as certain other of his goals, blinds him to the potential consequences to some extent, as well as his more internal desires for revenge.

He isn’t a benign idealistic internationalist like we see in too many ISOTs, but a rather biased and flawed individual with personal motivations as well as his own distinct set of beliefs and values; I like to think of the character as the antithesis of the invincible all-knowing Olympian that some use in their stories. He also is distinctly not a self insert, even though he shares some of my own interests/values in literature, architecture, music, food and a love of naval history, rather than politics and ideal outcomes.

Old Mate seeks not to make a few minor tweaks, but to change the flow of 20th century history wholesale."



His possessions:

Money and Valuables: (all appropriate to an 1898/99 landing)
50 £5 notes, fifty £1 pound notes, twenty five £1 sovereigns, forty shilling coins, twenty sixpence, twenty threepence, twenty florins and fifty pennies
Three strange rings: a gold one set with a sapphire, a silver one set with a ruby and a silver coloured metal set with a diamond.
A large diamond

Clothing and Accoutrements:
An overcoat
A well cut three piece suit in the fashion of the late 1890s
Trilby
A bag packed with two other suits, shirts, ties

Assorted medicines contained in a Gladstone bag

Laptop and solar charging device with a hand crank charger as a spare
4 Portable Hard Drives
*Small Dot Matrix Printer
Fully charged smartphone in his pocket, with charger, spare charger cord and plug in the front of the laptop bag

Wallet (containing uptime cash, cards and coins)
A set of rather useless keys
Aviator sunglasses
Four biros, one rather nice Mont Blanc and a fountain pen
Swiss Army Knife
Gerber Multitool
A clean handkerchief
1 full pack of cigarettes, Bic lighter and a Zippo
1 pack of chewing gum
1/2 pack of Skittles
Small crucifix
Solid gold pocket watch
Fairbairn Sykes Commando Dagger

Books/Resources on Laptop and Hard Drives
Ship/Aircraft/Vehicle Design Specs

Small Arms Specs: Bren, SLEM-1/FN-49, MP-40, FN FAL and FN MAG

Encylopaedia Britannica (11th Edition plus later editions for comparison)
Weather records
Mineralogical Surveys

Information on polio, measles and smallpox vaccines
Medical texts, with an accent on how to make penicillin

Janes Fighting Ships
Janes All the World's Aircraft
Conways All the World's Fighting Ships
Warship (1977-2021)
World War 1 Day by Day
A Military Atlas of the First World War
The World Crisis
History of the Second World War
2194 Days of War
Anatomy of a Ship: The Battleship Dreadnought, The Battlecruiser Hood, The Liner Queen Mary, The Aircraft Carrier Intrepid, The Battleship Warspite, The Battleship Yamato, The Aircraft Carrier Victorious, The Type VII U-Boat, The Type XXI U-Boat, The Destroyer The Sullivans, The Destroyer Escort England, The Cruiser Belfast, The Submarine Alliance, The Flower Class Corvette Agassiz
Norman Friedman: Fighters Over the Fleet: Naval Air Defence from Biplanes to the Cold War, American and British Aircraft Carrier Development, 1919-1941, The British Battleship: 1906-1946, British Cruisers: Two World Wars and After, British Destroyers: From Earliest Days to the Second World War, British Destroyers and Frigates: The Second World War and After, Fighting the Great War at Sea: Strategy, Tactics and Technology, Naval Firepower: Battleship Guns and Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era, Naval Weapons of World War One: Guns, Torpedoes, Mines and ASW Weapons of All Nations, British Carrier Aviation: the Evolution of the Ships and Their Aircraft, American and British Aircraft Carrier Development, 1919-1941, U.S. Naval Weapons: Every Gun, Missile, Mine and Torpedo Used By the U.S. Navy From 1883 to the Present Day, Naval Radar, U.S. Amphibious Ships and Craft: an Illustrated Design History, U.S. Cruisers: an Illustrated Design History, U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History, U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History, U.S. Aircraft Carriers: An Illustrated Design History
DK Brown: Warrior to Dreadnought, The Grand Fleet, Nelson to Vanguard, Rebuilding the Royal Navy
Eric Grove: Vanguard to Trident
Paul M. Kennedy: The Rise and Fall of British Naval Mastery, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000, Engineers of Victory, Grand Strategies in War and Peace
Massie: Dreadnought, Castles of Steel
Ian Hogg: German Artillery of World War II, British and American Artillery of World War II, Anti-Aircraft Artillery
Project Cancelled: The Disaster of Britain’s Cancelled Aircraft Projects (D. Wood)
American Secret Projects: Bombers, Attack and ASW 1945-1974
American Secret Projects: Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978
American Secret Projects: Fighters, Bombers and Attack Aircraft 1937-1945
British Secret Projects: Fighters and Bombers 1935-1950
British Secret Projects: Hypersonics and Ramjets
British Secret Projects: Jet Bombers since 1950
British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950
A Vertical Empire: The History of the UK Rocket and Space Programme 1950-71 (C.N. Hill)
Mosquito: The Wooden Wonder
Bomber Command (Max Hastings)
Military Innovation in the Interwar Period (Williamson Murray & Allan Millett)
Firepower: The British Army – Weapons and Theories of War 1904-45 (Shelford Bidwell & Dominick Graham)
Science, Technology and the British Industrial ‘Decline’ 1870-1970 (D. Edgerton)
Warfare State: Britain 1920-1970 (D. Edgerton)
The British Economy Since 1945: Economic Policy and Performance 1945-1995 (Alec Cairncross)
The audit of war: The illusion & reality of Britain as a great nation (Correlli Barnett)
The Pride and the Fall: The Dream and Illusion of Britain As a Great Nation (Correlli Barnett)
The Lost Victory: British Dreams, British Realities, 1945-50 (Correlli Barnett)
After the Victorians: The Decline of Britain in the World (A.N. Wilson)
Infantry Attacks
Achtung Panzer and Panzer Leader
US Marine Combat Conditioning
United States Army in the Korean War
Maps of War: Mapping Warfare Through the Centuries
World War I Battlefield Artillery Tactics
Vimy Ridge: A Canadian Reassessment
Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction and Operations 1914-1945
The Great War - Volume 1: The British Campaign in France and Flanders (Arthur Conan Doyle)
The Killing Ground: The British Army, The Western Front & The Emergence of Modern War
The Making of the Atomic Bomb
Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb
Lords of the Desert: Britain's Struggle with America to Dominate the Middle East
The Long Shadow: The Great War and the Twentieth Century

[miletus12]

May 19, 2022 15:08:13 GMT simon darkshade said:

Fortuitously, he has his laptop and charging device packed in their cases, along with a fully charged phone in his pocket and a packed bag of clothes.

What are the printed dates and serial runs on his specie and coins?
Where is he going to plug in? Is the electric grid outlet supply the 3 prong horror show? And what happens when his batteries pack it up and go home?
And is his charging device small enough to carry the load anyway? I mean it must be photovoltaic? As for hand-crank electric generator, why not make it a bicycle with a dynamo??

He is going to need a complete chem-bio data base, too. Those blueprints for midcentury devices mean nothing without industrial process chemistry data and a TRAINED industrial metallurgists cadre.

There are a lot of missing gaps and steps between 1900 and 1935 tech (duralumin and stainless steel come to mind.)

Then there is Keynesian and Marxist economic theory. How about that? What about advertisi-prop? Get the masses to buy the right politics and soap flakes.

Incidentally the MP40 was and is garbage. Might want an M3 Grease Gun or an M1 Carbine. Heck, try an Owen!

[simon darkshade]

1.) 1895

2.) Solar power pack/charger. I went through a whole thread of increasingly technical suggestions on AH.com back in Jan-Feb to get to that point.

3.) If the reference is to the laptop, he has a spare battery in his bag. He will be trying to print off as much as possible over time.

4.) www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/charging-a-laptop-in-1899-1900.523599/ It is a solar one. A bicycle couldn’t be carried in a bag.

5.) Good work on the chem-bio database. I did have a post on that, but it was chewed up in the board issues of the last hour. The mid century stuff isn’t for overnight implementation.

6.) Would information on those be in one of the 21st century Britannicas or would a more focused text be preferable?

7.) He isn’t a fan of either Keynes or Marx, but is willing to nick ideas and concepts that work. I haven’t given any thought to advertisiprop.

8.) I’m trying to remember my reasoning for the MP-40; I think it was based on the appearance/aesthetics and the relative closeness to WW1 rather than any technological allegiance.