Choices: Simon Goes A-Timelining/ISOTing

[simon darkshade]

Let’s see if this posts:

Next step is some general collated notes and ideas on the following topics:

Foreign Policy
Imperial and Colonial Policy
RN: Tech, Force Composition and Doctrine
British Army: Ditto
Economics
Minerals and Metallurgy
Science and Technology
Industry
Medicine
Agriculture
Domestic Policy

- Any other categories I’ve missed?
- Suggestions/ideas for content for those categories welcomed. I’m going to add more as I get more time.
- As this is an overtly paranormal/ASB beginning, I’m willing to jump through whatever hoops necessary to get through the initial conceit of the laptop in order to get the story going. It is a device, not something that will break the tale.

[miletus12]

May 19, 2022 16:06:58 GMT simon darkshade said:

Would information on those be in one of the 21st century Britannicas or would a more focused text be preferable?

Some of it was and is still proprietary trade stuff not out in the wild, but if he has this data on memory and can port it back, there are enough bright people who can read it and figure out how to get to most of it.

Bio-stuff he has to get from Georgia Medical or UMASS Medical. I would not trust UCal to know water is wet. Animal Husbandry and Criminology from UTenn. All of it is portable on memory. Euro sources are probably Sorbonne (Paris Saclay) or Padua or Milano in Italy. German schools? Not sure. TUM in Munich, maybe.

I'm sure you know better than I where the British databases are.

[simon darkshade]

Thank you. I’ll incorporate that into this, the focused research, prep and planning phase.

I think one of the factors that has motivated this endeavour is just seeing the sheer lack of ambition some people display when they give their time traveler literally an entire house full of goodies, yet still have WW2 begin precisely on schedule. A second driver is the notion that a few deft changes can result in big results decades down the line, particularly in economic terms.

[stevep]

  simon darkshade ,

   I would be doubtful of using Correlli Barnett as a source as he is rather selective of his arguments and facts.  Remember him complaining about how the British elite failed to mobolise its resources by neglecting most of the population and also technical education then bitterly complains at the end of the book when the post war Labour government did exactly that.

  I would stand by my earlier comments that you would need some substantial changes to maintain a British federation's dominance to the end of the 20th century.  At least without something seriously reducing some of the main competitors.  Especially Germany, Russia, the US and possibly China.  Also I'm concerned about some of the issues your not mentioning in his list of things he wants to avoid.

  Anyway be interesting to see what you come up.

  Steve

[miletus12]

May 19, 2022 16:40:56 GMT simon darkshade said:

Thank you. I’ll incorporate that into this, the focused research, prep and planning phase.

I think one of the factors that has motivated this endeavour is just seeing the sheer lack of ambition some people display when they give their time traveler literally an entire house full of goodies, yet still have WW2 begin precisely on schedule. A second driver is the notion that a few deft changes can result in big results decades down the line, particularly in economic terms.    

Well... there are butterflies and there are butterflies.

There are some things your traveler can do in 1900, that will help the British and he does not have to port special knowledge..

The three chaps who have to have a dirt nap are Hitler, Stalin and Lenin before they get started. The topper is probably Lenin.
If possible, bump off Bill II and Woodrow Wilson, too. Those two evildoers are almost as bad as Lenin.

Technical item that would be of interest is photovoltaics early and often. American Charles Fritts is prototyping a PZ panel array in 1885 in New York. I really would not discourage the Americans. You never know when you might "need" them.

In the mundane lane, have somebody invest in Chicago Tool and Die so the Luddies are put on the back foot and a genuine industrial middle class pops up. And electrify the British railroad system. Have wet scrubbers put on British coal powered electric generation plants. There is such a thing as stunted growth and secondary lung disease from soot.

And make socialized medicine a public private system and public health a human right. Also squash the BBC.

[stevep]

May 19, 2022 17:28:29 GMT miletus12 said:

May 19, 2022 16:40:56 GMT simon darkshade said:

Thank you. I’ll incorporate that into this, the focused research, prep and planning phase.

I think one of the factors that has motivated this endeavour is just seeing the sheer lack of ambition some people display when they give their time traveler literally an entire house full of goodies, yet still have WW2 begin precisely on schedule. A second driver is the notion that a few deft changes can result in big results decades down the line, particularly in economic terms.    

Well... there are butterflies and there are butterflies.

There are some things your traveler can do in 1900, that will help the British and he does not have to port special knowledge..

The three chaps who have to have a dirt nap are Hitler, Stalin and Lenin before they get started. The topper is probably Lenin.
If possible, bump off Bill II and Woodrow Wilson, too. Those two evildoers are almost as bad as Lenin.

Technical item that would be of interest is photovoltaics early and often. American Charles Fritts is prototyping a PZ panel array in 1885 in New York. I really would not discourage the Americans. You never know when you might "need" them.

In the mundane lane, have somebody invest in Chicago Tool and Die so the Luddies are put on the back foot and a genuine industrial middle class pops up. And electrify the British railroad system. Have wet scrubbers put on British coal powered electric generation plants. There is such a thing as stunted growth and secondary lung disease from soot.

And make socialized medicine a public private system and public health a human right. Also squash the BBC.

  Well some of them would obviously be bad for the UK.

a)  Having people assassinated, especially heads of state is not going to go down well with establishment figures, who are the people you need to get on with, at least at 1st.  Both out of personal interests and because the more intelligent ones will realise it sets a very dangerous precedent, especially if news leaks out.  Plus Wilhelm II and Wilson were more opinionated idiots than really evil.  The other three I would be happier having removed but the best solution is to avoid the situations that allowed them to gain power.  Especially since doing that also should avoid anybody else taking their place.  Especially since such a replacement could end up more dangerous - for instance an actually intelligent Hitler.

b)  As your made clear repeatedly the US will be an enemy of any power not totally subordinate to them.  Possibly doubly so in the case of Britain because of the US creation mythos and the fact that to become a true super-power, unless it was willing to share which the US has never shown any sign of, it has to destroy British naval power.  Therefore something that markedly weakens them is almost certainly to be a good step for British power to stay a significant power.  Especially if wiser leadership means a lot of the other problems Britain faced in the 20thC can be avoided.

c)  Fully privatizing medicine and also the media would both be bad for the people of Britain.

  I don't know about the two US technological references you mention but agree that an earlier and more complete electrification of the railway system would be good but its unlikely to be occurring on any degree even prior to ~1950 I suspect.  Improved pollution control, of which wet scrubbers on power stations would be only one of many possible issues, would definitely be better occurring earlier.  - Although correspondingly if you get rid of a lot of the pollutants in coal power generation your going to have global warming being more significant earlier.

[miletus12]

May 19, 2022 17:57:58 GMT stevep said:

  Well some of them would obviously be bad for the UK.

a)  Having people assassinated, especially heads of state is not going to go down well with establishment figures, who are the people you need to get on with, at least at 1st.  Both out of personal interests and because the more intelligent ones will realise it sets a very dangerous precedent, especially if news leaks out.  Plus Wilhelm II and Wilson were more opinionated idiots than really evil.  The other three I would be happier having removed but the best solution is to avoid the situations that allowed them to gain power.  Especially since doing that also should avoid anybody else taking their place.  Especially since such a replacement could end up more dangerous - for instance an actually intelligent Hitler.

1. Ordinarily I am opposed to murder in any form. BUT... Among the five individuals mentioned we can lay 200 million dead. That is a stiff price to pay for scruples. One will just have to very very careful. In the case of Wilson, that "Lost Cause" Unreconstructed Confederate set back my nation three generations and probably contributed to the economic troubles that Great War or no Great War were attributable to his idioctic agricultural policies.

2. Wilson in the way he poisoned honest intellectual thought, promoted racism and white supremacy and denied his African American citizens was "evil". He polarized and disunited the American people. How can a nation prosper with 13% of its people treated as defacto 2nd class human beings? How is that not evil?

May 19, 2022 17:57:58 GMT stevep said:

b)  As your made clear repeatedly the US will be an enemy of any power not totally subordinate to them.  Possibly doubly so in the case of Britain because of the US creation mythos and the fact that to become a true super-power, unless it was willing to share which the US has never shown any sign of, it has to destroy British naval power.  Therefore something that markedly weakens them is almost certainly to be a good step for British power to stay a significant power.  Especially if wiser leadership means a lot of the other problems Britain faced in the 20thC can be avoided.

May 19, 2022 17:57:58 GMT stevep said:

c)  Fully privatizing medicine and also the media would both be bad for the people of Britain.

3. First of all, a world with a superpower in it, is not a bad thing if the superpower is committed to a system of international law and it is a nation with measured goals. Last time I looked it was not the US who pulled off the Suez intervention and completely screwed up a US operation to put the Russians on the back foot and maybe give the East Europeans a glimmer of hope. Now it may come as a surprise to some, but a world with Americans in it is NOT a bad thing. The British Empire, such as it was, and proved to be, was NOT a good thing. Ask those who got out from under that empire how it feels to be "free".

4. Privatizing was not exactly what I wrote. Public and private insurance (German model) allows some flexible redundancy and added market incentive to provide the best care at the best price possible.

May 19, 2022 17:57:58 GMT stevep said:

  I don't know about the two US technological references you mention but agree that an earlier and more complete electrification of the railway system would be good but its unlikely to be occurring on any degree even prior to ~1950 I suspect.  Improved pollution control, of which wet scrubbers on power stations would be only one of many possible issues, would definitely be better occurring earlier.  - Although correspondingly if you get rid of a lot of the pollutants in coal power generation your going to have global warming being more significant earlier.

5. Correct on all counts, but the thing is that one needs to get started on carbon neutralization which is not the exactly the same as no carbon use.

6. The Chicago Tool and Die company was a pioneer in analog "cybernetic" control. Interchangeable parts and Packard type machine tolerances that not even the Germans could match can give one Lockheed Constellations with semiskilled labor. Very highly paid semi-skilled labor I might add. That would put the luddies out to the fringe and give the British an industrial middle class. As for Mister Fritts, he was the guy who pioneered those gadgets, those photovoltaic gadgets one sees later in the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon serials in the 1930s. It was small but a first step toward solar batteries that the US would develop in the 1950s. It was lack of interest and money that delayed the issue.

[575]

Remember some TV-programme on development of electric grids in London at the time - almost every street had its own. Of different voltage etc.. May make problems for the kit. Only saw the solar charger for cellphones last year just haven't picked one up yet but is going; though in foggy London town..
Really like the idea of getting A. Conan Doyle to write an introducery letter to Winnie. Thought also of H. G. Wells.

MP - why not the Swedish MP-49? Cheap simple light and liked by Special Forces

[simon darkshade]

Miletus, please take the Anglo-American debate out of this thread to somewhere it belongs.

575, the MP-49 has a particular aesthetic style that I don’t really like and Old Mate shares a few of those little eccentricities.

Steve, Barnett is less of a source and more of a cautionary tale. There won’t be a WW2 nor many of the issues he highlights on account of the 30-40 years of different policy. Very substantial changes are coming, most assuredly. What absences from the list raise concern?

Now, onto ideas:

- He is choosing Britain as it provides the best means for him to pursue his (deeply hidden) personal goals as well as his general agenda
- He’s not going to bother with Wilson, who is an American and completely tangential to his interest. Having said that, there will be change and Wilson may well not get the nomination
- Kaiser Wilhelm is off any list by virtue of the factors Steve identifies
- Lenin, absolutely. Stalin and Hitler might find themselves in a different situation, but the primary purpose is to prevent the circumstances that lead them to positions of power, notably the same type of World War 1. Preventing a Russian Revolution of some sort might be too difficult, given the tinder is already thick on the ground, but the Bolshevik takeover can be, at the least, made difficult. Hamstringing Russia as a competitor with internal strife isn’t a bad thing for him.
- There are a minimum of three parallel notions that will be running: Try to head off disastrous events and sequences + militarily prepare a British Empire so that it can get the generational jump on what does crop up + economically and industrially strengthen it so that can afford what needs to be afforded
- Wet scrubbers on power stations as part of a general effort to ameliorate effects on the natural and human environment are a good idea
- An electrified rail system, along with measures addressing the loading gauge issue, is a viable long term plan. There will be quite plentiful sources of power in due course

[simon darkshade]

Royal Navy

Ships under Construction April 1899

Canopus class predreadnoughts: Glory, Albion, Ocean, Goliath, Vengeance
Formidable class predreadnoughts: Formidable, Irresistible, Implacable, London, Bulwark, Venerable (Queen, Prince of Wales)

Drake class armoured cruisers: Drake (Good Hope, King Alfred, Leviathan)
Cressy class armoured cruisers: Cressy, Sutlej, Aboukir, Hogue (Bacchante, Euryalus)

Diadem class 1st class protected cruisers: Amphitrite, Andromeda, Argonaut, Ariadne, Europa, Niobe, Spartiate
Arrogant class 2nd class protected cruisers: Vindictive
Highflyer class 2nd class protected cruisers: Hermes, Highflyer, Hyacinth


- No 'lull' in naval construction in the mid 1900s, but consistent yearly programmes of advanced and capable ships, once their designs/weapons/facilities are ready
- Rather than build the 6 Duncans as second class battleships, they will be ordered as incrementally improved Formidables
- They will be followed by an improved KEVII 'semi-dreadnought' class closer to the Lord Nelsons
- Meanwhile, the 'Super X4' variant of Dreadnought will be designed, which will be laid down in 1902 or 1903. Emphasis will be placed on firepower, protection, speed advantage over potential enemies and range, in that order.
- These will be accompanied by a battlecruiser design that is not the historical Invincible, but a much tougher ship akin to a 12" Tiger with 10" on the belt
- Monmouth/County class armoured cruisers to be slightly redesigned to carry 4 x 9.2" and 12 x 6"
- All subsequent cruisers to be of the armoured type, so no Challenger or Topaze class
- This will result in a light armoured cruiser/6" light cruiser type and a 9.2" heavy armoured cruiser
- No historical scout cruisers or enlarged variant, just a greater number of light cruisers and a much, much improved DL/Swift type a bit down the line
- After a while, the DL and DD lines will merge as the latter catch up to the former
- Development of a coastal destroyer/TB will be pursued, taking time to design a smaller vessel that can still dominate in its role whilst being affordable in large numbers should a major armament programme become necessary

- Is there any utility to arming Dreadnought with a larger calibre gun than 12"?
- There will be no attachment to historical calibres when there are superior alternatives. Hence 14" instead of 13.5" and most probably 16" instead of 15" will be the progression
- Introducing a decent ~5" gun as a battleship 'secondary' will be an aim, rather than buggerising around with 4" and 6". This has flow on consequences and utility for smaller vessels

[simon darkshade]

Aviation

1.) Using patent plans, 3D models and detailed technical information, a prototype of the Wright Flyer will be made and flown in late 1900 in front of a crowd and with extensive photographic and moving picture documentation. Possible to have it piloted by Patrick Alexander or A.V. Roe, but not entirely necessary.

2.) From there, further experimental aeroplanes will be developed using future knowledge of what works and what are developmental dead ends. Particular aviation pioneers from @ will be identified and encouraged with funding, hints and information from the government sponsored Royal Aero Society and Royal Aircraft Factory (named as such in 1904 or 1905). The first to cross the Channel will be an Englishman and both the Army and RN will have their own aeronautical corps, with the RFC the first in the world.

3.) There will be an aim to get to the likes of the Royal Aircraft Factory BE.2, Avro 504, Curtiss JN and similar immediate pre WW1 or early WW1 type aircraft by 1905/06, then aircraft with performance equivalent to SE.5s, Vimys and Camels/late 1910s-1920 aircraft by 1911/12. I'm malleable with these dates, but want to push the envelope as far as it can go within reason and the limits of technology, materials and so forth.

4.) These will be accompanied by an airship development programme with a goal towards the use of helium over hydrogen.

5.) By 1915-1920, there will be a new generation of 1930s level monoplanes, skipping a generation of planes. I'm interested in ideas and perspectives.

6.) First experimental jet flight by 1920

7.) Aeroplane carrier experiments to begin in 1907/08

8.) Development of a very strong British aviation industry with government support and assistance. The aim is to get the technology and ideas into the hands of the right men and companies, working hand in glove with HM Government.

9.) A guiding principle will be to 5 years ahead of the European and American competition in the 1900s, at the minimum. It won't be possible to keep all developments under wraps and there will be leakage of technology and ideas, but the crown jewels will be kept very, very close and secret.

10.) Getting a jump is the first key, then having a clear plan how to capitalise on each successive invention and advantage. There will be black funding from a number of sources.

[575]

May 20, 2022 1:31:01 GMT simon darkshade said:

Miletus, please take the Anglo-American debate out of this thread to somewhere it belongs.

575, the MP-49 has a particular aesthetic style that I don’t really like and Old Mate shares a few of those little eccentricities.

Steve, Barnett is less of a source and more of a cautionary tale. There won’t be a WW2 nor many of the issues he highlights on account of the 30-40 years of different policy. Very substantial changes are coming, most assuredly. What absences from the list raise concern?

Now, onto ideas:

- He is choosing Britain as it provides the best means for him to pursue his (deeply hidden) personal goals as well as his general agenda
- He’s not going to bother with Wilson, who is an American and completely tangential to his interest. Having said that, there will be change and Wilson may well not get the nomination
- Kaiser Wilhelm is off any list by virtue of the factors Steve identifies
- Lenin, absolutely. Stalin and Hitler might find themselves in a different situation, but the primary purpose is to prevent the circumstances that lead them to positions of power, notably the same type of World War 1. Preventing a Russian Revolution of some sort might be too difficult, given the tinder is already thick on the ground, but the Bolshevik takeover can be, at the least, made difficult. Hamstringing Russia as a competitor with internal strife isn’t a bad thing for him.
- There are a minimum of three parallel notions that will be running: Try to head off disastrous events and sequences + militarily prepare a British Empire so that it can get the generational jump on what does crop up + economically and industrially strengthen it so that can afford what needs to be afforded
- Wet scrubbers on power stations as part of a general effort to ameliorate effects on the natural and human environment are a good idea
- An electrified rail system, along with measures addressing the loading gauge issue, is a viable long term plan. There will be quite plentiful sources of power in due course

Simon Darkshade;

Neighter do I but it works and is cheap - could have chosen the Soumi/Husquarna MP-37 but "the Bat" is way worse for aestherics (and more complicated to manufacture) and don't think Old Mate is a fan of that or Bergmann either.

[simon darkshade]

British Army

- The best SMLE variant will be chosen and developed for a 1902 introduction. Ideas and suggestions welcome
- LMG: A Lewis Gun clone will be developed on a similar timeframe and produced as the Armstrong Gun. Is there a utility to a Browning Automatic Rifle?

- The Vickers Gun will be developed and produced as soon as possible along with an M1919 lighter machine gun
- Utility of a ~ 0.5" HMG?
- A 1"/25mm automatic cannon for land, sea and AA use will be developed from the QF 1 pounder

- A Mills Bomb grenade will be developed and produced
- Mortars in three variants: a 3", a 6" and a 10"

- Rather than an 18pdr, a 25pdr/3.5" (initial range 15,000 yards) will be developed as the standard field gun. It will be accompanied by a 4.5" field howitzer (range 12,500 yards)
- Medium artillery of an Ordnance BL 6 inch 25cwt howitzer L/30 with a range of 18,000-20,000 yards and a 6"/50 gun. The latter is in preference to the 60 pounder
- Heavies are an 8" L/30 and a 9.2" L/30
- The goal for artillery is to develop the weapons and infrastructure, rather than build beyond a peacetime level. The extra range is informed by being able to hit an enemy well beyond their capacity

- Development of a heavy tank (based on a Mark X with a 12pdr in a turret, 6pdrs in sponsons and MGs and 1.5-2" armour), a medium (25t, a 6pdr turret and 1" armour) and a light (12t, 25mm turret, MGs and 0.5" armour). Gradual R&D over time in highly secret conditions as a literal secret weapon for any wars between 1910 and 1920.
- With a start to the programme in 1900/01, I would say prototypes are possible by 1906 followed by steady production from 1907/08.
- A self propelled gun and an evolution of the Mark IX as an APC will also be developed and tested.

- There will not be the same post-South Africa contraction of the Army in terms of units
- Formation of Corps in peacetime, with assigned support, engineer and artillery units, along with a Field Army HQ
- 1st-12th Infantry Divisions and 1st-4th Cavalry Divisions at home, along with sufficient troops for Guards Division and Light Division
- More formal establishment of an Army Reserve of 13th-24th Divisions, but over time 

More to come and ideas welcome

[simon darkshade]

May 20, 2022 6:49:57 GMT 575 said:

May 20, 2022 1:31:01 GMT simon darkshade said:

Miletus, please take the Anglo-American debate out of this thread to somewhere it belongs.

575, the MP-49 has a particular aesthetic style that I don’t really like and Old Mate shares a few of those little eccentricities.

Steve, Barnett is less of a source and more of a cautionary tale. There won’t be a WW2 nor many of the issues he highlights on account of the 30-40 years of different policy. Very substantial changes are coming, most assuredly. What absences from the list raise concern?

Now, onto ideas:

- He is choosing Britain as it provides the best means for him to pursue his (deeply hidden) personal goals as well as his general agenda
- He’s not going to bother with Wilson, who is an American and completely tangential to his interest. Having said that, there will be change and Wilson may well not get the nomination
- Kaiser Wilhelm is off any list by virtue of the factors Steve identifies
- Lenin, absolutely. Stalin and Hitler might find themselves in a different situation, but the primary purpose is to prevent the circumstances that lead them to positions of power, notably the same type of World War 1. Preventing a Russian Revolution of some sort might be too difficult, given the tinder is already thick on the ground, but the Bolshevik takeover can be, at the least, made difficult. Hamstringing Russia as a competitor with internal strife isn’t a bad thing for him.
- There are a minimum of three parallel notions that will be running: Try to head off disastrous events and sequences + militarily prepare a British Empire so that it can get the generational jump on what does crop up + economically and industrially strengthen it so that can afford what needs to be afforded
- Wet scrubbers on power stations as part of a general effort to ameliorate effects on the natural and human environment are a good idea
- An electrified rail system, along with measures addressing the loading gauge issue, is a viable long term plan. There will be quite plentiful sources of power in due course

Simon Darkshade;

Neighter do I but it works and is cheap - could have chosen the Soumi/Husquarna MP-37 but "the Bat" is way worse for aestherics (and more complicated to manufacture) and don't think Old Mate is a fan of that or Bergmann either.

575

There isn't a huge demand for a quick, cheap and simple to produce wartime expedient gun in 1900. Time can be taken to develop a decent weapon and then produce it in steady numbers. There isn't an intention to get involved in any European Great War that would require mass produced weapons. Additionally, the general 'niche' will be filled by an assault rifle type weapon based on the StG.44 in 10-15 years.

Simon

[simon darkshade]

RN Budgets 1900-1914

1900: 29.62
1901: 31.04
1902: 31.18
1903: 35.48
1904: 36.83
1905: 33.30
1906: 31.43
1907: 31.14
1908: 32.19
1909: 35.28
1910: 40.38
1911: 42.86
1912: 44.37
1913: 48.83


link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-1-349-09154-6%2F1.pdf

- There are two 'dips' there: the flatline in 01/02 and 05-08. The former is a blip, really, but the latter didn't really amount to a large yearly saving on an individual basis nor a cumulative one. This is the one referred to in my RN post above.
- We can see when the naval arms race kicked in from 1910, which also saw the price of ships such as super dreadnoughts rise higher

Total Defence Budgets in 1900-1913

1900: 69.6
1901: 121
1902: 123.3
1903: 100.6
1904: 72.2
1905: 66
1906: 62.2
1907: 59.2
1908: 58.2
1909: 59
1910: 63
1911: 67.8
1912: 70.5
1913: 72.5

This gives us these figures for War Office/Army Budgets in that period

1900: 39.98
1901: 89.96
1902: 92.12
1903: 65.12
1904: 35.37
1905: 32.7
1906: 30.77
1907: 28.06
1908: 26.01
1909: 23.72
1910: 22.62
1911: 24.94
1912: 26.13
1913: 23.67

- These figures are up and down like a madwoman's bloomers, but, when the Boer War cost is factored out, there is a big trend: a gradual postwar contraction to ~ 30 million pounds and then the exhuberant 'retrenchment' policies of Campbell-Bannerman carving through until the eve of WW1
- With a little bit of steady funding, a lot can be achieved

GDP 1900-1913
1900: 1963
1901: 1978
1902: 1988
1903: 1964
1904: 1967
1905: 2034
1906: 2112
1907: 2189
1908: 2093
1909: 2133
1910: 2218
1911: 2306
1912: 2401
1913: 2497

National Debt 1900-1913

1900: 30.17 (592.24)
1901: 33.1 (658.67)
1902: 35.85 (712.7)
1903: 37.94 (745.14)
1904: 37.69 (741.36)
1905: 36.16 (735.49)
1906: 34.41 (726.74)
1907: 32.43 (709.89)
1908: 33.35 (698.016)
1909: 32.41 (691.3)
1910: 31.68 (702.66)
1911: 29.26 (674.74)
1912: 27.4 (657.87)
1913: 25.86 (645.72)

- The debt incurred for the Boer War was nearly paid by 1913, before WW1 comes along and obliterated a decade of penny pinching, scrimping and saving more appropriate to a Scrooge than an empire
- Little fluctuations play havoc with such retrenchment policies
- Debt can be reduced more effectively through growth. The relative plodding of 1900-1904 balances out the better performance from 09-13
- Getting rid of debt is still a good step, but not if it is at the cost of a.) Positive investment that can grow the economy or b.) Necessary defence expenditure

Macro analysis
- These figures highlight the need for greater growth and different revenue streams. The latter can come in the form of tariff income from Imperial Preference, mineral 'finds', creative sources of income, postwar indemnities and more
- Britain was on an acceptable economic trajectory pre WW1, but it could have been better