Frivolous ASB thread

[stevep]

Oct 6, 2019 17:24:03 GMT Zyobot said:

With museums that no doubt depict Soviet and PRC history getting ISOTed into their midst, I wonder what Tsarist Russia and Qing China will do now that they're aware that they would've been replaced by radical leftist regimes IOTL. For one, I anticipate the Okhrana launching a crackdown of epic proportions in the case of the former.

  Ah guys, the ISOT was to 1919.  By that time Tsarist Russia and Qing China were both long gone. 

  Also in the Chinese case, other than possibly in Taiwan or Hong Kong those are going to be CCP orientated museums so they would give a very favourable view of the communists and hostile stance towards the KMT.

  Which makes me think.  If the French ones have anything on the 1st Vietnamese war - let alone the 2nd - their authorities might want a word with a certain chef/dishwasher - depending on the source who later became known as Ho Chi Minh.  Which is likely to be bad for his health.  Probably a number of other cases like this.

[Zyobot]

Oct 7, 2019 14:57:21 GMT stevep said:

Oct 6, 2019 17:24:03 GMT Zyobot said:

With museums that no doubt depict Soviet and PRC history getting ISOTed into their midst, I wonder what Tsarist Russia and Qing China will do now that they're aware that they would've been replaced by radical leftist regimes IOTL. For one, I anticipate the Okhrana launching a crackdown of epic proportions in the case of the former.

  Ah guys, the ISOT was to 1919.  By that time Tsarist Russia and Qing China were both long gone. 

  Also in the Chinese case, other than possibly in Taiwan or Hong Kong those are going to be CCP orientated museums so they would give a very favourable view of the communists and hostile stance towards the KMT.

  Which makes me think.  If the French ones have anything on the 1st Vietnamese war - let alone the 2nd - their authorities might want a word with a certain chef/dishwasher - depending on the source who later became known as Ho Chi Minh.  Which is likely to be bad for his health.  Probably a number of other cases like this.

Oh yeah, they were swept up by then, weren't they? Whoops.

While I can imagine the Chinese taking a favorable view of Red China due to its 2019 museums venerating the PRC, would Russian reactions to Soviet history be more mixed? Because the uptimer Russian museums would've come from nearly three decades after USSR collapsed, though I'm guessing that contemporary views of that era are more positive there than is true in the West.

[stevep]

Oct 7, 2019 15:51:11 GMT Zyobot said:

Oct 7, 2019 14:57:21 GMT stevep said:

  Ah guys, the ISOT was to 1919.  By that time Tsarist Russia and Qing China were both long gone. 

  Also in the Chinese case, other than possibly in Taiwan or Hong Kong those are going to be CCP orientated museums so they would give a very favourable view of the communists and hostile stance towards the KMT.

  Which makes me think.  If the French ones have anything on the 1st Vietnamese war - let alone the 2nd - their authorities might want a word with a certain chef/dishwasher - depending on the source who later became known as Ho Chi Minh.  Which is likely to be bad for his health.  Probably a number of other cases like this.

Oh yeah, they were swept up by then, weren't they? Whoops.

While I can imagine the Chinese taking a favorable view of Red China due to its 2019 museums venerating the PRC, would Russian reactions to Soviet history be more mixed? Because the uptimer Russian museums would've come from nearly three decades after USSR collapsed, though I'm guessing that contemporary views of that era are more positive there than is true in the West.

  Duh I forgot that!  Russian museums are likely to have a checkered view of the Soviet period.  It could be rather fatal for a certain Georgian however as I suspect Lenin won't like what Stalin does, even if in the end it finally worked for the Soviet Union compared to Lenin and Trotsky's views of continued exporting of the revolution was likely to have been.

[Zyobot]

Oct 7, 2019 15:55:48 GMT stevep said:

Oct 7, 2019 15:51:11 GMT Zyobot said:

Oh yeah, they were swept up by then, weren't they? Whoops.

While I can imagine the Chinese taking a favorable view of Red China due to its 2019 museums venerating the PRC, would Russian reactions to Soviet history be more mixed? Because the uptimer Russian museums would've come from nearly three decades after USSR collapsed, though I'm guessing that contemporary views of that era are more positive there than is true in the West.

  Duh I forgot that!  Russian museums are likely to have a checkered view of the Soviet period.  It could be rather fatal for a certain Georgian however as I suspect Lenin won't like what Stalin does, even if in the end it finally worked for the Soviet Union compared to Lenin and Trotsky's views of continued exporting of the revolution was likely to have been.

So, Joe Steel gets sacked and his initially isolationist, USSR-First approach discredited in the eyes of the Bolshevik revolutionaries? Well, that doesn't sound so great for the rest of the world. Because while V. Lenin and L. Trotsky may be less oppressive towards their own people than Stalin (though they were still bloodthirsty tyrants, I'm aware), I can imagine a much bloodier next couple decades as they try to export the revolution beyond their own domain.

[stevep]

Oct 8, 2019 15:06:19 GMT Zyobot said:

Oct 7, 2019 15:55:48 GMT stevep said:

  Duh I forgot that!  Russian museums are likely to have a checkered view of the Soviet period.  It could be rather fatal for a certain Georgian however as I suspect Lenin won't like what Stalin does, even if in the end it finally worked for the Soviet Union compared to Lenin and Trotsky's views of continued exporting of the revolution was likely to have been.

So, Joe Steel gets sacked and his initially isolationist, USSR-First approach discredited in the eyes of the Bolshevik revolutionaries? Well, that doesn't sound so great for the rest of the world. Because while V. Lenin and L. Trotsky may be less oppressive towards their own people than Stalin (though they were still bloodthirsty tyrants, I'm aware), I can imagine a much bloodier next couple decades as they try to export the revolution beyond their own domain.

  The redeeming feature here might be that because their still so weak if their that aggressive it could prompt a new round of intervention, or a continuation of what's already ongoing.  As such you could see Soviet Russia greatly weakened or possibly even overthrown.  Also if it meant a prolonged Japanese presence in Siberia then that could result in a radically different development of Japan, that with a continued threat from Russia and access to massive resources from Siberia it might not follow the path of OTL.

[lordroel]

Oct 9, 2019 15:04:34 GMT stevep said:

Oct 8, 2019 15:06:19 GMT Zyobot said:

So, Joe Steel gets sacked and his initially isolationist, USSR-First approach discredited in the eyes of the Bolshevik revolutionaries? Well, that doesn't sound so great for the rest of the world. Because while V. Lenin and L. Trotsky may be less oppressive towards their own people than Stalin (though they were still bloodthirsty tyrants, I'm aware), I can imagine a much bloodier next couple decades as they try to export the revolution beyond their own domain.

  The redeeming feature here might be that because their still so weak if their that aggressive it could prompt a new round of intervention, or a continuation of what's already ongoing.  As such you could see Soviet Russia greatly weakened or possibly even overthrown.  Also if it meant a prolonged Japanese presence in Siberia then that could result in a radically different development of Japan, that with a continued threat from Russia and access to massive resources from Siberia it might not follow the path of OTL.

Was the Russian Civil War not going on in 1919, that might also be effected, especially if some museums end up in White Russian controlled territories.

[stevep]

Oct 9, 2019 15:07:19 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 9, 2019 15:04:34 GMT stevep said:

  The redeeming feature here might be that because their still so weak if their that aggressive it could prompt a new round of intervention, or a continuation of what's already ongoing.  As such you could see Soviet Russia greatly weakened or possibly even overthrown.  Also if it meant a prolonged Japanese presence in Siberia then that could result in a radically different development of Japan, that with a continued threat from Russia and access to massive resources from Siberia it might not follow the path of OTL.

Was the Russian Civil War not going on in 1919, that might also be effected, especially if some museums end up in White Russian controlled territories.

  True good point, although they were losing ground in the core Russian heartland territories.  Mind you in such chaos it could be difficult to understand such information let alone persuade others that its accurate.  Let alone different interpretations of what is 'learnt' from those museums.  Can see assorted groups arguing that what it shows undermines the aims and purposes of their rivals. Thinking here as much within both White and Red regions as between them.

[lordroel]

What if our thoughts could be heard by everybody.

[Zyobot]

Oct 10, 2019 3:42:35 GMT lordroel said:

What if our thoughts could be heard by everybody.

Yeah, there’s a whole lot of thoughts that are best kept to whomever is thinking them. For instance, classified information that pertains to national security.

[Zyobot]

‘Libertarian Future States To 2020’.

[Zyobot]

‘M1 Abrams Blueprints To 1941’. Maybe they’ll inspire some innovations in the long haul, but I can’t imagine them being terribly useful in the short one.

Then again, I’m no engineer or military aficionado; perhaps I could be entirely wrong here.

[lordroel]

Oct 14, 2019 18:08:11 GMT Zyobot said:

‘M1 Abrams Blueprints To 1941’. Maybe they’ll inspire some innovations in the long haul, but I can’t imagine them being terribly useful in the short one.

Then again, I’m no engineer or military aficionado; perhaps I could be entirely wrong here.

Why not a Super Sherman ore something they can build in less then 4 years.

[Zyobot]

Oct 14, 2019 18:13:50 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 14, 2019 18:08:11 GMT Zyobot said:

‘M1 Abrams Blueprints To 1941’. Maybe they’ll inspire some innovations in the long haul, but I can’t imagine them being terribly useful in the short one.

Then again, I’m no engineer or military aficionado; perhaps I could be entirely wrong here.

Why not a Super Sherman ore something they can build in less then 4 years.

Good idea. I would guess that M-50 and/or M-51 Super Sherman blueprints would provide the Allies with armored vehicles that let them curb-stomp the Axis Powers even harder than IOTL.

However, could they stand up to German heavy tanks and the like better than their M4 Sherman counterparts? And yes, I'm aware of arguments that it was American military doctrine--rather than engineering capabilities--that made their armor less over-engineered and individually OP than the Third Reich's. At least, that's the impression I'm under.

[lordroel]

Oct 14, 2019 22:50:14 GMT Zyobot said:

Oct 14, 2019 18:13:50 GMT lordroel said:

Why not a Super Sherman ore something they can build in less then 4 years.

Good idea. I would guess that M-50 and/or M-51 Super Sherman blueprints would provide the Allies with armored vehicles that let them curb-stomp the Axis Powers even harder than IOTL.

However, could they stand up to German heavy tanks and the like better than their M4 Sherman counterparts? And yes, I'm aware of arguments that it was American military doctrine--rather than engineering capabilities--that made their armor less over-engineered and individually OP than the Third Reich's. At least, that's the impression I'm under.

They could and if the Americans build them in the numbers like OTL Sherman, than the Germans are screwed. 

[Zyobot]

Oct 15, 2019 3:48:46 GMT lordroel said:

Oct 14, 2019 22:50:14 GMT Zyobot said:

Good idea. I would guess that M-50 and/or M-51 Super Sherman blueprints would provide the Allies with armored vehicles that let them curb-stomp the Axis Powers even harder than IOTL.

However, could they stand up to German heavy tanks and the like better than their M4 Sherman counterparts? And yes, I'm aware of arguments that it was American military doctrine--rather than engineering capabilities--that made their armor less over-engineered and individually OP than the Third Reich's. At least, that's the impression I'm under.

They could and if the Americans build them in the numbers like OTL Sherman, than the Germans are screwed. 

So, that means a total production figure of over 49K Super Shermans. Maybe ince they’re more effective than OTL M4 design on a per capita basis, the US will produce more of them? Or, less?