The ISOT thread

[575]

Jul 16, 2022 18:15:18 GMT melanie said:

Japanese-held and Japanese puppeted territory: May 1, 1942 to May 1, 1948

I understand -held as being outside Japan. Whats Your position?

[stevep]

Jul 17, 2022 7:45:33 GMT 575 said:

Jul 16, 2022 18:15:18 GMT melanie said:

Japanese-held and Japanese puppeted territory: May 1, 1942 to May 1, 1948

I understand -held as being outside Japan. Whats Your position?

  Good point.  It might be that way in which Japan itself and the occupying forces would be as they are in 1-5-48.  Which might make it easier for getting a mass surrender of the Japanese by getting the emperor to repeat his surrender broadcast.  However suspect a lot will think its a fake or refuse to accept it as Japan is at the peak of its success at this point.  Mind you such a surrender, if only in areas could save a lot of lives, especially of allied POWs and assorted civilians all over the region murdered in the period 1942-45.

[575]

Jul 17, 2022 8:39:17 GMT stevep said:

Jul 17, 2022 7:45:33 GMT 575 said:

I understand -held as being outside Japan. Whats Your position?

  Good point.  It might be that way in which Japan itself and the occupying forces would be as they are in 1-5-48.  Which might make it easier for getting a mass surrender of the Japanese by getting the emperor to repeat his surrender broadcast.  However suspect a lot will think its a fake or refuse to accept it as Japan is at the peak of its success at this point.  Mind you such a surrender, if only in areas could save a lot of lives, especially of allied POWs and assorted civilians all over the region murdered in the period 1942-45.

stevep

Well it will perhaps but it will also make for a very bloody end to Japanese forces abroad because you can't really use Nukes in China to make them surrender..

Stalin may also run amok in China of course in order to defeat the Japanese but also help the CCP.

[melanie]

by 1948, the US Army had been demobilised substantially which will cause problems in dealing with the Japanese held territory brought six years forward from 1942.

[shadow007]

1939 Allies/Soviets have every technology from the Korean War except Nukes

[gillan1220]

Jul 16, 2022 21:10:44 GMT stevep said:

Jul 16, 2022 18:15:18 GMT melanie said:

Japanese-held and Japanese puppeted territory: May 1, 1942 to May 1, 1948

  Well that will screw over both China's but possibly especially the communists.  They will have their wartime territory in the Yuan region but just about everything else is lost.

  Japan gets stomped down on hard, probably with nukes being used as the quickest way to seek to secure its surrender.

  Suspect the Soviets will attack into Manchuria and Korea and may seek to take all the latter.

  Large areas in SE Asia and parts of the Pacific are drawn back into the chaos and brutality of Japanese occupation.  The US and UK will lose people and military resources that were in the region at the time, as would the French in FIC and the Dutch in the parts of the DEI they were holding at this point.

  Going to be interesting seeing India and Pakistan's reaction to the Japanese threat suddenly appearing again.

It looks like Corregidor is still holding out. Anyways, uptime U.S. would not hesitate to use atomic weapons once more.

[shadow007]

1930 Japan ISOT to 931. Wondering how replacing the Crusades and Mongol Invasion with Imperial Japan would change history

[melanie]

At one second past midnight on July 1, 1997, the new Hong Kong SAR is replaced by the full colonial territory of British Hong Kong from 12:00:01AM July 1. 1937.

stevep, A lot of important British and Chinese political and military figures who are in Hong Kong for the Handover have just been wiped out by the ISOT. Including at least one royal - Prince Charles.

[stevep]

Aug 20, 2022 20:23:48 GMT melanie said:

At one second past midnight on July 1, 1997, the new Hong Kong SAR is replaced by the full colonial territory of British Hong Kong from 12:00:01AM July 1. 1937.

stevep , A lot of important British and Chinese political and military figures who are in Hong Kong for the Handover have just been wiped out by the ISOT. Including at least one royal - Prince Charles.

  Well that would change the British succession.  Its going to affect the Chinese leadership as well.  How that changes things in the longer term I don't know.  Chinese was already making clear it viewed continued autocracy and centralised control so probably not a great difference other than in the faces at the top table in their government so to speak.  Other than the WTF reaction everybody will have.

  Given the agreement made Hong Kong will still be transferred to Chinese rule.  There's no basic way we could maintain it and the exchange of the modernish HK with the pre WWII one won't make a difference other than delay things a bit and mean that Britain will probably need to provide refuge for the down-time Brits [and possibly some others].  There's a chance some down-time significant figures will be alive again while a lot of people will have the shock of finding an ancestor alive again, with all the issues that will raise. 

[melanie]

July 1, 1997 is before Diana's death... and now Charles is in 1937 and so William is the new Prince of Wales. He hasn't met Kate Middleton yet and there will be a lot of pressure on the new Prince of Wales as it is only 1997 and he is 15.

[stevep]

Aug 20, 2022 23:59:12 GMT melanie said:

July 1, 1997 is before Diana's death... and now Charles is in 1937 and so William is the new Prince of Wales. He hasn't met Kate Middleton yet and there will be a lot of pressure on the new Prince of Wales as it is only 1997 and he is 15.

  Only by a couple of months and she's still being pursued by the press so it could still happen.  However it might be avoided and Diana is now going to be something of an issue in terms of being the divorced ex-wife of the former heir and hence the mother of both William and Harry which will draw her more fully back into their lives and hence the royal sphere.  Here she will be consoling them over their father's death rather than vice-versa. 

  I think his age and his mother will protect William and there definitely won't be strong pressure for him to get hitched and produce an heir in the not too distant future.  After all he has a younger brother and several nephews and nieces so its not an urgent matter.  However its definitely going to complicate matters in terms of Diana and the royal family.  Which would be complicated further by her relationship with Dodi.  [Shades of Caroline of Brunswick possibly although the relationship was never quick that poisonous with Charles and Diana?]

  I would assume that the 1997ers sent to 1937 are in a parallel universe as otherwise there would be so many butterflies produced that they would totally change the TL they came from.  [Its going to be interesting - probably in the Chinese sense - in that 1937 with all the secrets that will come out about 'future' events and while Japan is already rampaging through eastern China WWII in Europe is likely to go very differently now.

[shadow007]

1839 China now has WW1 technology. The Opium Wars will be different. Would this prevent White racism against Asians? (Since Asians now have the bigger guns)

[melanie]

The city of Nuremberg and all its suburbs as of the opening day of the proceedings in the Neuremberg Trials are teleported to the same date in 1995.

The FRG doesn't support the death penalty, and many 1995 people will be keen to interview Goering, Ribbentrop, and others.

[melanie]

575, all royal palaces and royal residences in Denmark fron 8PM, Christmas Eve 1940 to the same timeslot and day in 1933.

[gillan1220]

WI: ASB Habsburg Empire is isoted to 2000